What do you do against a GA...

[Jimmypotato]

At one time I felt like this was Arrow's worst matchup by far. Do you think that's still the case then? I personally feel like I have a lot more trouble these days with Black Adam players who turtle and Superman Zoners...but I also don't think I've seen a really great aquaman in a while.

Fuckin Aquaman man,

He can reaction FTDeep if you try naked load an Arrow. His 6 frame D1 with reach from hell and 7 Frame D2 that not only AAs the whole damn screen infront of him, it hits behind him too.

That shit stops you from ever initiating any offence, and he can interupt anything you do with D1~Arrow xcept D1~Savage Blast.

He still has his Trait,

I still hate it.

BA is a little better now with the dash nerf, but still tough

Superman is a little better now with the nerf on air lazer and the fact we can crouch shoot arrows if they wanna straight lazer.

Still tough though.

 

[Duck Nation]

Arrow seems still weak to me, ultimately. I play him for love of the character, not because I think he's my best choice for winning. Heh. I just wish he had more viable options in a lot of matches, because damn near everything boils down to "do ice arrow horseshit."

 

[Jimmypotato]

oh yah, should have also put he can reaction FTDeep you just for shooting an arrow and get a better trade

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Arrow seems still weak to me, ultimately. I play him for love of the character, not because I think he's my best choice for winning. Heh. I just wish he had more viable options in a lot of matches, because damn near everything boils down to "do ice arrow horseshit."

Pretty much the same boat....had another question but Ima save it for the matchup thread.

oh yah, should have also put he can reaction FTDeep you just for shooting an arrow and get a better trade

I definitely agree it's still rough. No question everything you said is true, but I just wonder if it's really that much more rough than the BA/SM matchup....but then again it's possible that because their dirt is way easier to exploit that I think that.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Arrow seems still weak to me, ultimately. I play him for love of the character, not because I think he's my best choice for winning. Heh. I just wish he had more viable options in a lot of matches, because damn near everything boils down to "do ice arrow horseshit."

Well, yes and no.

It's kinda like his good matches are really good, and his bad matches suck ass. I'm finding more and more, you really have to understand what the other guy can do. Great defense is super Key with him. And maximizing damage.

I mean, 47% meterless in the corner is great, but I rarely see people do it. He has some mid screen damage now. And I think it's very important to know all your Unclashable options.

Although I have picked up Killer Frost permanently for his bad matches (mostly Bane Aman Sinestro), mostly for tourny, I have not stopped using him, I've actually been labbing shit all week, and hope to have a thread with some new options for certain situations.

Sometimes the best thing to do with him is do something they just wont expect. He does have alotta options. and Fire Arrow is actually pretty good at 7% and you can shoot it hella fast. I only just started practicing firing the next arrow as close to the first frame possible recently.

I still feel he has lots to be uncovered.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Pretty much the same boat....had another question but Ima save it for the matchup thread.


I definitely agree it's still rough. No question everything you said is true, but I just wonder if it's really that much more rough than the BA/SM matchup....but then again it's possible that because their dirt is way easier to exploit that I think that.

Jump 3 in the BA match is huge now that they took the distance off his back dash, so he can't just mindlessly try back dash out of your pressure.

Lightning can be jumped into J3 22 punish on reaction from certain distances. You can also hit an Electric Arrow or Fire Arrow from some distances to punish Black Magic on block.

It's important to block high against him. and get good at jumping that lightning.

Also, if you notice they are good a D1ing you outta shit, you gotta respect it, and try blow up D1 palpatine hands.

I haven't labbed that but maybe it can be D1 interupted if you block the D1? or maybe MB B3?

I'll check when I get home from work.

 

[Duck Nation]

I'd give him some more buffs still, personally. I look at stuff like, why the hell isn't he one of the characters with a six frame d1 given his vulnerability to pressure and weak wakeup game? Why does basically everything he does get raped by armor? Why are his fire arrows actually a weak zoning tool given their limited uses and the cost/potential risk of acquiring them?'

I mean, really, if you look at his tools versus what the top tier has just for free, he's got a hell of a rift there.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I'd give him some more buffs still, personally. I look at stuff like, why the hell isn't he one of the characters with a six frame d1 given his vulnerability to pressure and weak wakeup game? Why does basically everything he does get raped by armor? Why are his fire arrows actually a weak zoning tool given their limited uses and the cost/potential risk of acquiring them?'

I mean, really, if you look at his tools versus what the top tier has just for free, he's got a hell of a rift there.

I would want 6F D1, 10F D2 Way faster D3 and I want my +15 back on B23
lol

 

[Duck Nation]

I'd give him 6f d1 and armor breaking electric arrows before anything else. There's a lot of stuff I might potentially change beyond that though - make hurricane bow safe and decrease its chip some (and maybe give him a meter burn version with current chip), increase fire arrow damage by up to as much as 11% and/or raise the chip on them to a more respectable level, and craziest buff of all - give him an option to load arrow after savage blast or up haven arrow for additional recovery time. Now that would be a character people would have to respect.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Green arrow buff: 3 electric arrows
if only you'd use it

 

[Jimmypotato]

I'd give him 6f d1 and armor breaking electric arrows before anything else. There's a lot of stuff I might potentially change beyond that though - make hurricane bow safe and decrease its chip some (and maybe give him a meter burn version with current chip), increase fire arrow damage by up to as much as 11% and/or raise the chip on them to a more respectable level, and craziest buff of all - give him an option to load arrow after savage blast or up haven arrow for additional recovery time. Now that would be a character people would have to respect.

11% would be too much, since you can have 3 stocked. It's potential 33% unclashable for no meter then, and thats to OP

I don't mind Hurricane bow being unsafe, what I would like is less recovery on the move when it hits, so I can dash or load arrow faster.

One sweet buff would be the ability to Load special arrows mid air.

That would be sick.

 

[Duck Nation]

11% would be too much, since you can have 3 stocked. It's potential 33% unclashable for no meter then, and thats to OP

Yeah, it would be overpowered for him to be able to do something other characters can without having to stock fucking arrows and telegraph their shit first. Rofl.

One sweet buff would be the ability to Load special arrows mid air.

Whoops, yeah, I forgot that.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Yeah, it would be overpowered for him to be able to do something other characters can without having to stock fucking arrows and telegraph their shit first. Rofl.


Whoops, yeah, I forgot that.

well, as it is, he still gets super into B3 b3

B2~Fire Arrow is like 13%

MB Stinger is unclashable by itself

and if you need to end a round but haven't gotten your super set up,

B2~MBb3, MB b3 is 32% unclashable for 3 bars lol.

 

[Duck Nation]

Yeah, honestly, that's not even good anymore. Lobo gets almost 60% for two bars, I think? Bane upwards of that, IIRC? Ollie used to be better at it comparatively, but the F3/B3 buffs improved a lot of characters' options in that respect.

The thing I'm really angling at is for what GA has to do to get his shit going, it's not unreasonable for him to have powerful tools. When you have to do what he does for basically average payout, it winds up putting him below average altogether. I think the Arrow community has actually taken the weaknesses of their character in the teeth with particular grace. It would be entirely reasonable to ask for a lot more than he's gotten.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Thats cause we arent pussies lol

I honestly don't compare him to other characters, I try to look at what he has and what he can do.

Then find out how to stop what the other guys can do, not worry that they can do something better then I can do. Because doesn't matter what character you use. Someone will be able to do something better then you.

I quit caring where he is on the tier list as well. I know I personally have some problem match ups, and thats why I have frost now.

 

[Lord Hollow]

With aquaman :/

I loled..

 

[Lord Hollow]

Thats cause we arent pussies lol

I honestly don't compare him to other characters, I try to look at what he has and what he can do.

Then find out how to stop what the other guys can do, not worry that they can do something better then I can do. Because doesn't matter what character you use. Someone will be able to do something better then you.

I quit caring where he is on the tier list as well. I know I personally have some problem match ups, and thats why I have frost now.

Awesome post and a great way to look at it. We have a resident GA player here and he has the ssame mentality. Just work with your character's strengths and minimize their weaknesses. GA is a very versatile character and when the player knows when to change up his playstyle midmatch, he is a monster. Much respect.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

In the corner GA is a bitch

I use reset arrow trap ice reloads to prevent wakeups, and neutral j3 bj3 to keep them cornered. GA can beat anyone if he keeps them locked in the corner.

Really u need to push block ASAP and make allot of good guesses if your in the corner.