'We're going to do this, whether you're on board or not' - Ed Boon's team wasn't initially behind his idea to overhaul Mortal Kombat story modes - (Ev

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

All this talk and barks, yet no actual saying with counter points. You just proved without a shadow of a doubt that you're a hater and you're the problem here, because when push comes to shove, you can't back up your arguments, only bark.

Yeah, you're making me look bad. LMAO. I'm done with you.

Spoken like every person who ever lost an argument in embarrassing fashion. Be done then, boy. I'll keep supporting the game and it's young players MY WAY and providing an example of how to be critical without being an overbearing asshole.

You literally didn't make a single valid point that I didn't counter with my own. Stop pretending you're Ben Shapiro and get humble, because you CLEARLY have a lot to learn.

Also, way to try to call me out over going back and forth with Dave when he's one of the few old players who's still around whose opinion I respect and value and have done so since 2012 when he made Top 8 at EVO, because guys like him having knowledge and perspective keep me from turning into shmucks like you, who try and light people up for attention when they have barely any idea what or who they're talking about. Have you ever even BEEN to a tournament? Do you have any concept of the amount of nuance and bullshit that goes into being seriously competitive? Or are you just here to stroke NRS' ego and be a cheerleader? Because I'm really confused as to how someone who blindly banters about a CLEARLY FLAWED GAME as though it can do no wrong is any better than someone who holds its' makers accountable in the hopes of getting a better and higher quality experience, offline and online. I said it before, I'll say it again: you picked the wrong person to try and make an example of.

But sure. Be done because you know you have no ground left to stand on, so the rest of us can get back to the topic at hand.

 

[Blazeglory88]

MK11's story isn't "hated" to that degree, it's only "hated" by those who just wanna complain for the sake of it, or because they just wanna get attention, or because they, just like you, have a very specific idea on what an MK story should be. But OBJECTIVLY, MK11's story is fantastic, and it's a well known fact. I don't care how many places you go on the internet to find people who bash it, because as I've said more then once already, the rest of the world exist outside of TYM and the internet, and even on the internet you will find numerous people to love the story of MK11 story, because it was amazing, just like every story mode from MKD's Konquest mode. Also you wanna talk about going "back to the roots"? MK always had both magical and dark, and also technology and real world elements cross all of it's games, with the exception being MK Mythologies. And it stopped being more focused on the magical and dark aspects of it already since MK3, with the story of Shao Kahn invading Earthrealm and almost all of the stages being located in modern-day places like the Subway, Bridge and Bank, and you had new characters such Stryker and Kabal, and of course the Lin Kuei Cyborg Ninjas, being introduced. So having the Lin Kuei, which is where Sub-Zero, Noob Saibot and Smoke came from, going Cyber, along with adding a gun-shooting cop and a hook swords mercenary was OK, but having the SF, which is what Sonya came from, being the main focus of the story (and still not the only focus, and there were of of course other dark and magical newcomers there like Kotal Kahn and D'Vorah) is bad? That is contradictory. And MKX was less magical based, but it was also a lot darker in comparison to MK9 or MK11 right now. Just look at the stages and presentation of the game.

And you sure as hell shouldn't listen to what @Lt. Boxy Angelman says. That's the same guy who keeps denying that MK11 is fantastic and successful despite both the sales and tourney numbers proving it all over the place. And he says now that the story modes in MKX and IJ2 were a lot better, and he also said in other places recently that MK11 isn't good because it's a combo heavy game like MKX, but were the fuck was he when everyone on TYM bashed MKX all over the place? OH WAIT! He was one of them too, he bashed the MKX story just like all of the bashers. And if you don't believe me, just look at this example:

https://testyourmight.com/threads/i-hope-nrs-resolves-all-these-subplots-theyve-accumulated.50519/page-2#post-1673515

That's because he, just like you, @Blazeglory88 and all of the NRS bashers that would love bash out of being "constructive" (except that it's not constructive, this is just being assholes), keeps the cycle of bashing over and over again. You are gonna complain over and over that the current game (whatever it's the gameplay, story, content etc; ) is bad and how only the previous games were better, and once the next game comes, you're gonna bash that game and praise the previous game that you kept bashing for years, as if Kronika had manipulated the Sands of Time to change history to make it seemed like none of you ever said that fucking bullshit. MK9 and IJ2 specifically got less bashing then IJ1, MKX and now MK11, admittedly, but they still fell to the bullshit that you, Boxy and the rest of the bashers are doing.

Every single story in the NRS era was fantastic in it's own way. Was it's plot centered around what some people might have expected or prefered to see? No, but that's not a bad thing at all, because the direction and execution was still incredible. The time travel aspect of it was amazing, and it sure as fuck wasn't done to restart the story just out of the need to be changed alone like it was after MK Armageddon. NRS did it because it the idea they came up with and they went all out with it, and there is no retcons here at all (like with the Sindel thing, it is twist, not a retcon, there is a difference) And they are all passionate about what they do. Just because they are going in a direction you don't like to see, doesn't mean it's not objectively, and it sure as fuck doesn't that they don't have passion for the series. The story is done for fans from all eras. And this is coming from a long time fan of MK since MK2 in the mid 90's (and yes @Blazeglory88 , those are facts for you).

The only thing that needs to be fixed here is the attitude of the internet people, like you, and you are the ones who need to go back to your roots, of being rational people. And MK12 might be indeed more magic based, but only because that this, just like with any NRS story, that was the idea that they decided to go with, and not because anything needed to be fixed. Period.

Listen, before you start going after me for something you're assuming I did or would have done in the past understand that I am relatively new to this website as of 2018 but have been around the MK scene for as long as I can remember, around the 3D era onward. There are plenty wrong with MK11's story, characterization, plot, and especially the way it handles retcons. To say that the people speaking up about this are simply bashing to bash is ignorant and reductive to having an actual conversation towards how to improve the franchise overall. If you want to stick your head in the sand and simply Consoom product and get excited for new product go ahead but don't try to invalidate or outright attack people that disagree with you just because they disagree with you.

You clearly didn't type this comment with a level head so let me try and set things straight, I liked a lot about MKX and 9's story, felt it could improve in some areas but it did a lot right and for the most part left a good jumping off point for the series to continue from. Mk11's story is a mess from start to finish which is clear to see as Dark Raiden, a main antagonist and good jumping off point from X was instantly scrapped in favor of this shiny bald time lady that looks like she belongs in anything but Mortal Kombat. If you think that is just a calculated deliberate choice and not due to the writing team shifting hands for the past 3 games and being overall directionless, writing themselves into a corner, than I guess keep living in that ignorance.

Every single story set in the NRS era was not fantastic, it was good and outright serviceable for the most part. Injustice 2 was NRS best story yet for reasons i'm not going to bog down this post with but with 9 and X they did the best with the type of structure the story lent them and I don't hate them for trying their best. Just to add as well, the story being more cinematic doesn't make it better by comparison objectively, the writing does. The plot was centered around something almost nobody wanted to see and outright no one expected, the argument I keep seeing on the internet lately about 'it's not made for you, that's ok' type of nonsense in ridiculous. Almost everyone expected Dark Raiden to play a major role in MK11 and he was scraped initially. To simply molly coddle this idiotic decision that they set up and summarily threw away as 'that's ok' because you personally will eat whatever is shoveled in your mouth without question isn't an argument and isn't something that works when people call it out and criticize it. It's hiding behind your own opinion and placing your hands over your ears to block out dissent.

To quickly touch on some other points you made because I just now realized (ikr?) that this will all fall on deaf ears because there is no conversation to be had with your types:

-If you think the time travel aspect wasn't done so they could retroactively redo their mistakes and try again in the next era your welcome to.

-There are plenty of retcons in MK11 that were unnecessary and add nothing but confusion and inconsistency to both the history and characters for newcomers and old fans alike. Sindel was a retcon, not a twist, a twist implies it was set up from the start, and you can see that if you read her 2011 bio, which also takes place in the NRS era, that wasn't the case. The writers changed hands a couple times in between the three games, so to think evil Sindel was planned all the way back in MK9 is to take everything at face value because critical thinking requires introspection about one's own opinion, and we can't admit to being wrong on the internet can we.

-Some more retcons for you: Raiden/Fujin are now Demi-Gods, like Taven/Rain/Dagon, instead of Gods of their elements. Skarlets character being a blood mage instead of a blood construct. Erron Black being a black dragon goon instead of an immortal cowboy because of Shang Tsung. Titans being above the One Being in terms of power. Titan's in general. I'm sure there are some that i'm missing.

-I can't prove they have passion or don't but I sure as hell know the head writer doesn't give a damn what fans want, going in a direction I don't like personally is one thing, but the amount of people that came out against Sindels retcon wanting the old Sindel back, seeing how it was teased in Aftermath, before being thrown in your face in the 4th chapter is nothing short of pissing on what their fans want. Although if aftermath was written before the pandemic and everything was already cemented in the writing than the damage was done before it was released and in that case it's just a bigger slap in the face.

-There were good moments in MK11's story that were made for fans of all era's yes. That doesn't discount the criticism towards MK11's story as a whole though. Being a fan since the 90's doesn't mean you automatically have the right opinion or the more favorable one. Age doesn't determine this either except give you the experience to learn what good writing and bad writing is and what makes it so, if one cares enough to learn the distinction.

-The day people stop criticizing Mortal Kombat or any franchise's decisions for that matter is the day the studio becomes complaisant, and then things really start going to shit. Just a tidbit but you think the day 1 towers would have been changed if nobody at all complained about them, yeah no, WB designed that shit to be malicious as possible and the only reason it got changed is due to complaints, the same can be said for bad writing in the story, talk about it if you want change and hope the writers listen.

No one's attitude needs to change here but yours. Stop trying to silence people with labels for having different opinions about a franchise they love and have spent years with, no matter how harsh, because the harsher the comment the more passion for the franchise, otherwise they wouldn't have spoken up at all. Instead of calling people 'bashers' try to actually have a conversation with them, learn why they feel this way, and if they're genuine try to take something away from that and learn what you can about why the person feels that way, y'know, being a human instead of a drone that just dismisses any opinion because they don't like it or want to hear it, something something political divide in america is because this. That's all I can really say, but I doubt you'll read this and learn from it, mostly will just ignore or attack me again, don't worry you can be sure you've won that time because I won't dignify the next feral keyboard screeching with a response. I don't have time to waste on people who want conversion instead of conversation.

 

[Blazeglory88]

And this proves... what?
Bruh. MK being a WB franchise means it's going to sell no matter what. Being one of the three most globally recognized fighters in history behind Street Fighter and Tekken AND the most easily accessible fighter out of all the big ones out right now, in its first year, in a time when streaming and sponsorship and all that jazz are at an all time high, means the numbers are going to be there no matter what right now. Doesn't change the fact that this game can be boring as all hell and the story is the most nonsensical and piece-meal story they've written since Armageddon. It just is.
And please don't put words in my mouth telling ME how I hate the game, when I've been saying every chance I get since last January that I've been waiting for Year One to end to see what they do to improve conditions and overall enjoyability. And even though Aftermath doubled down on the already awkward and mailed in time travel multiverse premise that literally retconned THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MORTAL KOMBAT, I've also been adamant about putting over everything they've fixed and gotten right. I'm critical as fuck because I LOVE this franchise. It has been the closest fictional universe to my heart since I was a little kid. I've been writing a book for ten years now that's entirely devoted to martial arts and the end of the world and culminates in a tournament for the fate of reality, because I've been inspired my entire livelong life by MK.
You've been a fan since MKII? Cool, because I wrote my entire English research final in college on it, dove into everything from its original as the Jean Claude Van Damme Pit Fighter game, to Hillary Clinton and the creation of the ESRN, Tobias leaving the creative team, Midway going under, the transition from old-gen to new-gen with Deadly Alliance and all the martial arts research that went into it, which is one of the biggest reasons why the 3D era is still my favorite of all the eras, ANYTHING you could want to know about it. So, good to know we're on the same knowledgeable page. Please tell me something I don't know so I can understand why you're so sure I'm the one to call out about this, when anyone who actually knows me knows how much MK means to me and how much better I believe it can get. I want it to be Mortal fucking Kombat, not just another moneymaking IP that has all of the looks but lacks the original substance, and if me being so critical of such lackluster writing has you all up in your feels, that's a damn shame. Tourney numbers when there's no new release competition to go up against (not to mention it didn't even make the cut for EVO until EVO had to go online), and high sales numbers when you're under the umbrella of one of the biggest and most monolithic entertainment studios on the planet, mean precisely dick to me if you can't even put together a story that makes sense without tearing down all of the lore and history behind it.

And for the record, the reason MK9 and IJ2 got less bashing than MKX and IJ1 is because - wait for it - they had GREAT story modes.

Also for the record, the reason I was so upset with MKX was personal to me, because from the moment I saw the MK9 opening at the end of Armageddon, all the Challenge Tower art, the main online chatroom being named CHAOSREALM, Noob Saibot's ending, so forth and so on, I was CERTAIN that we were going to get some Deadly Alliance or Deception retelling in the next game. We didn't. We got Bo Rai Cho. I was not happy. Also I was real in the depths of the booze and the drugs and the chaos back then, and I was not my best self at all. So THAT, my MKX self and being mad I didn't get what I was hoping for, I apologize for 100% if I ever said any dumb shit, because on its own as the new MK4 to it's predecessor's MK1-3, it was solid, Tremor is one of the hands down best characters NRS has ever made, and I had a lot of fun, especially after Leatherface came out. Whatever hell I gave it, I walk back...outside of when they nuked all the armored launchers but didn't give the three characters who NEEDED them to survive - Balanced Kenshi, Lackey Torr, and Jax pretty much as a whole - any help to stay above water. That was dumb.

But MK11 has been weird to me since even before release, I will NEVER understand why they were so opaque about what the variations system was going to be until after the Beta, I CANNOT abide Kombat League and their refusal to give players who want to grind Ranked without having to tolerate garbage connections the means to do so, there's NO reason Johnny Cage should still be fundamentally flawed over a year after release with the same issue NRS hasn't been able to get right since Jax in MK9, and while I have no issue apologizing when I'm wrong, I will NNEEVVEERR apologize, to you or anyone else, for being critical of the game I love or the studio who makes it when it's obviously lacking in things it's previously knocked out of the park. I don't want Mortal Kombat to be the quarterback who gets the huge money deal and then never had another top tier season again. They can do better than retconning the retcon they just blew up the universe with and then leaving us hanging so they can read the room and side with whichever ending they think will sell better, like they've done with the thrown together at the last minute variation system because they couldn't balance open customization. We were better off when you had to put out your product without the safety net of being able to rewrite history later, no pun intended.

So yeah. That's my two cents.
If anyone else wants to try me for calling bullshit when I see it, I have all the time in the world.

I'd be very interested in reading that English final you wrote if you don't mind sharing it.

 

[EarlyReflections]

Nope, nothing needs improvement here. And the replay-ability doesn't have to come from story modes if they already making them as amazing as they are and the have replay-ability through other modes such as the Towers of Time. Of course MK12 might be different, maybe they will find a way to make it both cinematic and with a ton of replay-ability in the same mode and still make it just as amazing. Arc Sys and Bamco tried that with DBFZ and they failed miserably. Or maybe NRS will make two story modes with two different experiences, one fully cinematic and one Konquest style mode in the same game.

Whatever the case, their story modes are always worthy, more then any other company.

Ι won't argue the production quality here. Everything is top notch last 2 games. But a heavy resource mode needs replayability. Look at aftermath. Many people didn't pay for it and watched the story on YT. 40,00 NOT spent. A non replayable mode that can be watched online, can't make the 3 characters worth 40 bucks.

Now about the writing, modern timetravel shenanigans are a calamity destroying everything they touch...Like a certain RPG remake that came out recently. You may disagree on that, but you can't deny the late story modes are full of cringe fan service and overexposition.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I'd be very interested in reading that English final you wrote if you don't mind sharing it.

I wish. Especially now in this conversation. I tried to track down my old professor at BCC (Mount Laurel, NJ) a while back to get a copy of it, but to no avail .
It was winter of '05, and it's one of my favorite things I've ever written. Prof. Mitra (old Indian woman, very smart, VERY much a hardass) told us we could do it on anything we wanted except pot and abortion. I asked her if I could do mine on MK, and she gave me a very perplexed "well, I suppose," and it took off from there. What killed me was that I stayed up the entire night before finishing it after work, and got in everything (including Special Forces which honestly isn't worth remembering), except for Armageddon because there were barely any details out about it at that time, and went in at 8am on Tuesday only to find out class had been cancelled for the day. I wept with exhaustion and passed out in the student lounge so hard that my friends had to come wake me up and make sure I was alive. But then I handed it in Thursday and got a 98.5% AND a "Very Surprised" with a smiley face on it. Totally worth the effort .
I do not kid when I say I've lived and breathed this grand and insane franchise my whole life. Even with all the mess that I disagree with, I could never NOT be a fan. And if they can improve and go from Armageddon to MK9, they could certainly turn things around post-Aftermath and write their way out of the Void.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Ι won't argue the production quality here. Everything is top notch last 2 games. But a heavy resource mode needs replayability. Look at aftermath. Many people didn't pay for it and watched the story on YT. 40,00 NOT spent. A non replayable mode that can be watched online, can't make the 3 characters worth 40 bucks.

Now about the writing, modern timetravel shenanigans are a calamity destroying everything they touch...Like a certain RPG remake that came out recently. You may disagree on that, but you can't deny the late story modes are full of cringe fan service and overexposition.

You're doing the same mistake that @Blazeglory88 and others are doing, and that's relying your argument on the internet alone, which is exactly what you shouldn't do. As I've said, the rest of the world exist outside of the interent, having MK11 Aftermath's story being watched on YT doesn't indicate how many people didn't buy Aftermath. I did buy the Aftermath update, played the whole story and all of the matches, including all of the branched matches, and I still went do to watch parts of the story on YT more then once on various YT channels. So I added to both the sales numbers and the YT watch numbers, so YT views don't indicate anything at all.

And also, how the fuck fan service can be cringe? There is no such thing. And overexpositon? Of what? Where?

Sorry but this comment doesn't make any sense.

 

[xWildx]

And now we’re getting these cinematic story modes while the rest of the game is barely complete enough to ship.

A year later to include Friendships? Third augment slots just now becoming active? Moves and specials that were nigh unusable just now being buffed into relevancy? Characters released that had glaringly obvious balance issues that made it seem like they needed a few more weeks in the oven? A core mechanic like variations that are kind of all over the place (you have to create your own tournament variations, customs are a thing but aren’t a thing, game launched with only two)?

I’d really like to know how much of NRS’s resources go into these story modes that 90% of us play through once then forget about. Maybe it WASN’T the best idea, Boon, to have your team try and create this epic single player story AND a tournament worthy fighter. Perhaps, in the future, story modes should be outsourced as their own thing (overseen by NRS) and they can focus on what Mortal Kombat is: a fighting game.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Listen, before you start going after me for something you're assuming I did or would have done in the past understand that I am relatively new to this website as of 2018 but have been around the MK scene for as long as I can remember, around the 3D era onward. There are plenty wrong with MK11's story, characterization, plot, and especially the way it handles retcons. To say that the people speaking up about this are simply bashing to bash is ignorant and reductive to having an actual conversation towards how to improve the franchise overall. If you want to stick your head in the sand and simply Consoom product and get excited for new product go ahead but don't try to invalidate or outright attack people that disagree with you just because they disagree with you.

You clearly didn't type this comment with a level head so let me try and set things straight, I liked a lot about MKX and 9's story, felt it could improve in some areas but it did a lot right and for the most part left a good jumping off point for the series to continue from. Mk11's story is a mess from start to finish which is clear to see as Dark Raiden, a main antagonist and good jumping off point from X was instantly scrapped in favor of this shiny bald time lady that looks like she belongs in anything but Mortal Kombat. If you think that is just a calculated deliberate choice and not due to the writing team shifting hands for the past 3 games and being overall directionless, writing themselves into a corner, than I guess keep living in that ignorance.

Every single story set in the NRS era was not fantastic, it was good and outright serviceable for the most part. Injustice 2 was NRS best story yet for reasons i'm not going to bog down this post with but with 9 and X they did the best with the type of structure the story lent them and I don't hate them for trying their best. Just to add as well, the story being more cinematic doesn't make it better by comparison objectively, the writing does. The plot was centered around something almost nobody wanted to see and outright no one expected, the argument I keep seeing on the internet lately about 'it's not made for you, that's ok' type of nonsense in ridiculous. Almost everyone expected Dark Raiden to play a major role in MK11 and he was scraped initially. To simply molly coddle this idiotic decision that they set up and summarily threw away as 'that's ok' because you personally will eat whatever is shoveled in your mouth without question isn't an argument and isn't something that works when people call it out and criticize it. It's hiding behind your own opinion and placing your hands over your ears to block out dissent.

To quickly touch on some other points you made because I just now realized (ikr?) that this will all fall on deaf ears because there is no conversation to be had with your types:

-If you think the time travel aspect wasn't done so they could retroactively redo their mistakes and try again in the next era your welcome to.

-There are plenty of retcons in MK11 that were unnecessary and add nothing but confusion and inconsistency to both the history and characters for newcomers and old fans alike. Sindel was a retcon, not a twist, a twist implies it was set up from the start, and you can see that if you read her 2011 bio, which also takes place in the NRS era, that wasn't the case. The writers changed hands a couple times in between the three games, so to think evil Sindel was planned all the way back in MK9 is to take everything at face value because critical thinking requires introspection about one's own opinion, and we can't admit to being wrong on the internet can we.

-Some more retcons for you: Raiden/Fujin are now Demi-Gods, like Taven/Rain/Dagon, instead of Gods of their elements. Skarlets character being a blood mage instead of a blood construct. Erron Black being a black dragon goon instead of an immortal cowboy because of Shang Tsung. Titans being above the One Being in terms of power. Titan's in general. I'm sure there are some that i'm missing.

-I can't prove they have passion or don't but I sure as hell know the head writer doesn't give a damn what fans want, going in a direction I don't like personally is one thing, but the amount of people that came out against Sindels retcon wanting the old Sindel back, seeing how it was teased in Aftermath, before being thrown in your face in the 4th chapter is nothing short of pissing on what their fans want. Although if aftermath was written before the pandemic and everything was already cemented in the writing than the damage was done before it was released and in that case it's just a bigger slap in the face.

-There were good moments in MK11's story that were made for fans of all era's yes. That doesn't discount the criticism towards MK11's story as a whole though. Being a fan since the 90's doesn't mean you automatically have the right opinion or the more favorable one. Age doesn't determine this either except give you the experience to learn what good writing and bad writing is and what makes it so, if one cares enough to learn the distinction.

-The day people stop criticizing Mortal Kombat or any franchise's decisions for that matter is the day the studio becomes complaisant, and then things really start going to shit. Just a tidbit but you think the day 1 towers would have been changed if nobody at all complained about them, yeah no, WB designed that shit to be malicious as possible and the only reason it got changed is due to complaints, the same can be said for bad writing in the story, talk about it if you want change and hope the writers listen.

No one's attitude needs to change here but yours. Stop trying to silence people with labels for having different opinions about a franchise they love and have spent years with, no matter how harsh, because the harsher the comment the more passion for the franchise, otherwise they wouldn't have spoken up at all. Instead of calling people 'bashers' try to actually have a conversation with them, learn why they feel this way, and if they're genuine try to take something away from that and learn what you can about why the person feels that way, y'know, being a human instead of a drone that just dismisses any opinion because they don't like it or want to hear it, something something political divide in america is because this. That's all I can really say, but I doubt you'll read this and learn from it, mostly will just ignore or attack me again, don't worry you can be sure you've won that time because I won't dignify the next feral keyboard screeching with a response. I don't have time to waste on people who want conversion instead of conversation.

Wow, and people say that I'm the one who writes overly long posts as a weapon to disqualify my points. Well this post is not long at all.

And you said that you're not gonna respond to me, yet you're not obligated to do so. However you should take this into account: You're doing the same mistake that so many other people including on this site are doing and that basing your argument on what the popular bandwagon claim on the interent is, which is exactly what you shouldn't do. As I've said, the rest of the world exist outside of the interent, and it's a well known fact the the interent is a gigantic cesspool of hate bandwagons, misinformation spreading, and one-sided facts making, and if you don't go by those same routes, you're getting lynched and suppressed by the masses of the trolls who do go by them. That is also why the mentality of not shutting up harsh comments is completely false. If something goes too far from the facts and too far in time, those comments are only harm the franchises rather then making them better. So something needs to be done in order to correct them. You're saying that Shawn Kittelsen (the writer of MK11's story mode, who also wrote the MKX comics and IJ2's story mode) doesn't have passion for the MK series or doesn't care about what the fans want, yet you're making one-sided facts about him just because that like all of the interent bashers like you, you're expecting him to go with your very specific idea of that an MK game should be, except that it's false. Just because it doesn't go by your idea and that SOME people might share it as well, that doesn't make it only way to go. So you're accusing me of shutting up people's opinions, yet you're the one who can't accept or see anyone's views but your own, and your less vulgar speech that you used in those comments compared to my comments in this particular thread alone doesn't change that fact. I mean, you're throwing the term "retcon" all over the place for every plot twist you didn't like, just like Boxy does, which almost makes it feel like you don't know what the term "retcon" actually means, and that proves even further your false approach to the matter.

I will just end it with this. If the hate against the plot twist regarding Sindel (not retcon, like with the ending of MK Armageddon, that was an actual retcon) went so far and so extreme that people started to send death threats to Kittelsen on Twitter, then YOU KNOW that those criticism are are not legit and are just a part of yet another internet bandwagon that was created of the pure toxicity of the interent and nothing more. Keep that in mind.

I don't need you to not respond to me, because you already lost the argument in the body of your own comment alone. Thank you.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Listen, before you start going after me for something you're assuming I did or would have done in the past understand that I am relatively new to this website as of 2018 but have been around the MK scene for as long as I can remember, around the 3D era onward. There are plenty wrong with MK11's story, characterization, plot, and especially the way it handles retcons. To say that the people speaking up about this are simply bashing to bash is ignorant and reductive to having an actual conversation towards how to improve the franchise overall. If you want to stick your head in the sand and simply Consoom product and get excited for new product go ahead but don't try to invalidate or outright attack people that disagree with you just because they disagree with you.

You clearly didn't type this comment with a level head so let me try and set things straight, I liked a lot about MKX and 9's story, felt it could improve in some areas but it did a lot right and for the most part left a good jumping off point for the series to continue from. Mk11's story is a mess from start to finish which is clear to see as Dark Raiden, a main antagonist and good jumping off point from X was instantly scrapped in favor of this shiny bald time lady that looks like she belongs in anything but Mortal Kombat. If you think that is just a calculated deliberate choice and not due to the writing team shifting hands for the past 3 games and being overall directionless, writing themselves into a corner, than I guess keep living in that ignorance.

Every single story set in the NRS era was not fantastic, it was good and outright serviceable for the most part. Injustice 2 was NRS best story yet for reasons i'm not going to bog down this post with but with 9 and X they did the best with the type of structure the story lent them and I don't hate them for trying their best. Just to add as well, the story being more cinematic doesn't make it better by comparison objectively, the writing does. The plot was centered around something almost nobody wanted to see and outright no one expected, the argument I keep seeing on the internet lately about 'it's not made for you, that's ok' type of nonsense in ridiculous. Almost everyone expected Dark Raiden to play a major role in MK11 and he was scraped initially. To simply molly coddle this idiotic decision that they set up and summarily threw away as 'that's ok' because you personally will eat whatever is shoveled in your mouth without question isn't an argument and isn't something that works when people call it out and criticize it. It's hiding behind your own opinion and placing your hands over your ears to block out dissent.

To quickly touch on some other points you made because I just now realized (ikr?) that this will all fall on deaf ears because there is no conversation to be had with your types:

-If you think the time travel aspect wasn't done so they could retroactively redo their mistakes and try again in the next era your welcome to.

-There are plenty of retcons in MK11 that were unnecessary and add nothing but confusion and inconsistency to both the history and characters for newcomers and old fans alike. Sindel was a retcon, not a twist, a twist implies it was set up from the start, and you can see that if you read her 2011 bio, which also takes place in the NRS era, that wasn't the case. The writers changed hands a couple times in between the three games, so to think evil Sindel was planned all the way back in MK9 is to take everything at face value because critical thinking requires introspection about one's own opinion, and we can't admit to being wrong on the internet can we.

-Some more retcons for you: Raiden/Fujin are now Demi-Gods, like Taven/Rain/Dagon, instead of Gods of their elements. Skarlets character being a blood mage instead of a blood construct. Erron Black being a black dragon goon instead of an immortal cowboy because of Shang Tsung. Titans being above the One Being in terms of power. Titan's in general. I'm sure there are some that i'm missing.

-I can't prove they have passion or don't but I sure as hell know the head writer doesn't give a damn what fans want, going in a direction I don't like personally is one thing, but the amount of people that came out against Sindels retcon wanting the old Sindel back, seeing how it was teased in Aftermath, before being thrown in your face in the 4th chapter is nothing short of pissing on what their fans want. Although if aftermath was written before the pandemic and everything was already cemented in the writing than the damage was done before it was released and in that case it's just a bigger slap in the face.

-There were good moments in MK11's story that were made for fans of all era's yes. That doesn't discount the criticism towards MK11's story as a whole though. Being a fan since the 90's doesn't mean you automatically have the right opinion or the more favorable one. Age doesn't determine this either except give you the experience to learn what good writing and bad writing is and what makes it so, if one cares enough to learn the distinction.

-The day people stop criticizing Mortal Kombat or any franchise's decisions for that matter is the day the studio becomes complaisant, and then things really start going to shit. Just a tidbit but you think the day 1 towers would have been changed if nobody at all complained about them, yeah no, WB designed that shit to be malicious as possible and the only reason it got changed is due to complaints, the same can be said for bad writing in the story, talk about it if you want change and hope the writers listen.

No one's attitude needs to change here but yours. Stop trying to silence people with labels for having different opinions about a franchise they love and have spent years with, no matter how harsh, because the harsher the comment the more passion for the franchise, otherwise they wouldn't have spoken up at all. Instead of calling people 'bashers' try to actually have a conversation with them, learn why they feel this way, and if they're genuine try to take something away from that and learn what you can about why the person feels that way, y'know, being a human instead of a drone that just dismisses any opinion because they don't like it or want to hear it, something something political divide in america is because this. That's all I can really say, but I doubt you'll read this and learn from it, mostly will just ignore or attack me again, don't worry you can be sure you've won that time because I won't dignify the next feral keyboard screeching with a response. I don't have time to waste on people who want conversion instead of conversation.

Well said, Blaze. 100%.

People need to learn when they're on the wrong side of an argument. But hey, what do we know? We're just haters who want to bash the game, the game that we love and go out of our way to articulate our feelings about and that literally anyone with eyes could see we're only being hard on because we've seen it be ten times better than it currently is.

Before, I was just having fun at the expense of someone else's idiocy. But I take offense to me and others who feel like I do, and have poured DECADES of love and frustration into these games, being talked down to by bootlickers who think they can big word long rant their way out of being wrong.

We want the game to be better.
They want to be right.
We are not the same.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

I will just end it with this. If the hate against the plot twist regarding Sindel (not retcon, like with the ending of MK Armageddon, that was an actual retcon) went so far and so extreme that people started to send death threats to Kittelsen on Twitter, then YOU KNOW that those criticism are are not legit and are just a part of yet another internet bandwagon that was created of the pure toxicity of the interent and nothing more. Keep that in mind.

I don't need you to not respond to me, because you already lost the argument in the body of your own comment alone. Thank you.

What type of advanced tech of logical fallacy 101 do we have here?
"If a very minuscule minority of people who share an opinion get violent about it, then the entire opinion is invalid"
Like, hello? How does that remotely make sense, even inside your head? Please elaborate cause I'm at a loss here.
EDIT: still can't stop laughing about this. So by this logic every single Mileena fan is a sociopath, judging by how they behave on twitter, thus Mileena has no legitimate fanbase?

 

[projectzero00]

@Roy Arkon seriously mate...you need to know when to drop it. This is quite embarrassing lol

 

[EarlyReflections]

You're doing the same mistake that @Blazeglory88 and others are doing, and that's relying your argument on the internet alone, which is exactly what you shouldn't do. As I've said, the rest of the world exist outside of the interent, having MK11 Aftermath's story being watched on YT doesn't indicate how many people didn't buy Aftermath. I did buy the Aftermath update, played the whole story and all of the matches, including all of the branched matches, and I still went do to watch parts of the story on YT more then once on various YT channels. So I added to both the sales numbers and the YT watch numbers, so YT views don't indicate anything at all.

And also, how the fuck fan service can be cringe? There is no such thing. And overexpositon? Of what? Where?

Sorry but this comment doesn't make any sense.

Τhe thing is, my comment relies on real life people. I don't usually care for internet opinions....but even there you can see there is a good portion of the fanbase concerned about the whole direction. Story and others. But as we discuss story, a good sample exists here as well. And many didn't buy aftermath, because the price didn't match up the content offered (for them). A Konquest like expansion in a Konquest-like story, would be a different thing. (Konquest is just an example of replayable mode).

What is cringe fan service and over-exposion:
Mk11 specifically, took traits from characters and pushed them straight to eleven, forgetting who these characters actually are. See Subzero, the wise grandmaster who doesn't even have time to socialize. Noob, he became just a Reaper archetype. Kung lao just being selfish and second fiddle. Kitana the Leader, Johnny doing Johnny stuff, Shao the baddie, Sang being sang, everything is just as expected. The list goes on. Iconic one liners that are repeated again and again, reducing the impact from their initial presentation.(ThErE aRe FaTeS wOrSe tHan dEaTh). The only characters developed for real in mk11 are Jax and Sheeva. Everyone else is just "himself".straight to eleven.
The krypt having much more MK atmoshpere than the whole game. Exposition, everyone explains everything before it even happens. Characters presented in "glorious" ways.
-Who is this?
-The guy who did X and Y (which you've never have heard of).
Mk11 and aftermath, and mkx in a lesser extent, are just like the MK Armageddon movie. Famous Characters just pop in and then disappear.

The writing is not good. And mk can do better. Has an enormous cast of characters, 30+ of them being popular, decent back stories for them, and a world that offers a ton of possibilities. Marvel time travel is not one of them.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Wow there are some really bad issues with this site, there were some sever issues lately that prevented me from checking the site out including when I wanted to respond. Although I was very busy this week anyway and I still am so it didn't really matter. But now that I have a little bit of time I do wanna get my point across one last time, because the stuff that is said in this thread, like pretty much this whole site, is outrageous to say the least.

What type of advanced tech of logical fallacy 101 do we have here?
"If a very minuscule minority of people who share an opinion get violent about it, then the entire opinion is invalid"
Like, hello? How does that remotely make sense, even inside your head? Please elaborate cause I'm at a loss here.
EDIT: still can't stop laughing about this. So by this logic every single Mileena fan is a sociopath, judging by how they behave on twitter, thus Mileena has no legitimate fanbase?

Except that the amount of people on the internet actively and keep bitching on the interent in general is also extremely minuscule compared to the rest of the world, as I've said several times already. So that means actually further proves that you are in the minority. And regarding the Sindel plot twist bashers, I was talking about only them, not the whole Sindel fanbase, because there are also a ton of Sindel fans who aren't triggered by this, just like a ton of Mileena fans are not triggered by her not being in MK11. I myself am a Mileena fan, she is my top 4 favorite MK character ever and my top favorite female MK character ever, yet I'm not triggered by her not being in MK11 that I keep bitching about it nonstop, let alone to the point I'm attacking and harnessing others over that nonstop every chance I get. The people that kept harnessing Kittelsen over Sindel however did this constantly to him, every single morning in fact, and when he also had other personal issues in life like dealing with an illness that his son had at the time. Even if it was a small amount of people, the fact that they took it that far and clearly showed no empathy at all just because they don't wanna see anything that doesn't go with their restrict perfect idea of what an MK game should be, proves how this approach is invalid in it's core, just like all of you are saying that Kittelsen and NRS don't have passion for MK just because they some stuff that don't go with your perfect MK world idea. Oh and it's really cute that you quoted only this part of my comment, you know that your approach to the matter is false, as I've said.

Τhe thing is, my comment relies on real life people. I don't usually care for internet opinions....but even there you can see there is a good portion of the fanbase concerned about the whole direction. Story and others. But as we discuss story, a good sample exists here as well. And many didn't buy aftermath, because the price didn't match up the content offered (for them). A Konquest like expansion in a Konquest-like story, would be a different thing. (Konquest is just an example of replayable mode).

What is cringe fan service and over-exposion:
Mk11 specifically, took traits from characters and pushed them straight to eleven, forgetting who these characters actually are. See Subzero, the wise grandmaster who doesn't even have time to socialize. Noob, he became just a Reaper archetype. Kung lao just being selfish and second fiddle. Kitana the Leader, Johnny doing Johnny stuff, Shao the baddie, Sang being sang, everything is just as expected. The list goes on. Iconic one liners that are repeated again and again, reducing the impact from their initial presentation.(ThErE aRe FaTeS wOrSe tHan dEaTh). The only characters developed for real in mk11 are Jax and Sheeva. Everyone else is just "himself".straight to eleven.
The krypt having much more MK atmoshpere than the whole game. Exposition, everyone explains everything before it even happens. Characters presented in "glorious" ways.
-Who is this?
-The guy who did X and Y (which you've never have heard of).
Mk11 and aftermath, and mkx in a lesser extent, are just like the MK Armageddon movie. Famous Characters just pop in and then disappear.

The writing is not good. And mk can do better. Has an enormous cast of characters, 30+ of them being popular, decent back stories for them, and a world that offers a ton of possibilities. Marvel time travel is not one of them.

Again, how do you know that many people didn't buy Aftermath? Even if you met some people outside of the interent who didn't buy Aftermath that doesn't indicate the whole list of buyers. We don't have the actual sales numbers or data for MK11 Aftermath, you can't just make up the sales numbers or data based on the reaction that you happened to come across alone. I've seen many people that did buy the Aftermath update in it's entirety and didn't wait for the characters to be sold separately (which BTW should be possible by now). Does that mean I can say automatically how many people bought the full update compared to how many people bought the base game for MK11 and/or KP1? Of course not.

And the fan-service isn't cringe at all, and sure as fuck there isn't any over exposition here. All of those character traits show-case is exactly what you need to do in order let the players know them better, especially if they're knew to the series. You need to get more fans to your franchise if you wanna make the series grow, and you do it by showcasing their personality and lore as much as possible. And you're saying that Jax and Sheeva are the only two exceptions? Because if they are what you consider being "developed for real", you can say the same thing for the entire roster of MK11. Also those iconic lines get used maybe like 3-4 times TOPS, that's not overuse by any stretch of the imagination. Same thing with the Krypt, all of those places the and the stories about them that are explained and extremely well done. I've enjoyed the Krypt so much because it showed so many Easter eggs for past MK media and explained so many things so well that once again, can help more fans get into the rich and deep lore of MK, and it even helped understand stuff that I didn't even know about MK's lore. Also, MK9 was the one story that actually was closer to have "characters that just pop up and disappear", MKX and MK11 had those cases way less then MK9, especially MK11. And regarding the time travel style story, MK9 started it way back in 2011 with Raiden's visions from his Future-self. And you wanna compare that to the Marvel movies? The only time they did it was in Avengers End Game, which was released to the world RIGHT AFTER the release of MK11. And other fighting game franchises copied the time-travel storyline from MK9 as well and all in different approaches. SoulCalibur 6 did it with Zasalamel (who received visions from his future-self just like Raiden did in MK9) and also Cassandra, and even Dragon Ball FighterZ created 3 different timelines to it's story mode. All of this way before MK11 was made. And you know why they did it? Because the time travel storyline has worked for MK9, so they wanted to cash in on it. MK11 just used the time travel storyline a 2nd time after MK9.

So no, there is no over-exposition, you're just over-exaggerating, and you clearly don't even know the history of MK, you don't even know what's going on the world outside of MK. You just wanna keep the things old school for MK and don't want it to grow and evolve like every super popular franchise should be. You just wanna be stuck in your perfect world, just like all of the bashers.

@Roy Arkon seriously mate...you need to know when to drop it. This is quite embarrassing lol

The only thing that is embarrassing here is this website, because like I said, there are severe issues with it, and in way more ways then one. Just like the internet portion of the NetherRealm Studios and Mortal Kombat communities in general have severe issues.

And therefore, I know what my objective should be from now on, which is not to talk to anyone on TYM anymore. There is no use to it, it's a lost cause.

TYM is a joke, as it doesn't stand for Test Your Might, but rather for Totally Yucky Morons. Period.

 

[WA-Finest]

Real comedy gold in this thread.

 

[EarlyReflections]

Wow there are some really bad issues with this site, there were some sever issues lately that prevented me from checking the site out including when I wanted to respond. Although I was very busy this week anyway and I still am so it didn't really matter. But now that I have a little bit of time I do wanna get my point across one last time, because the stuff that is said in this thread, like pretty much this whole site, is outrageous to say the least.



Except that the amount of people on the internet actively and keep bitching on the interent in general is also extremely minuscule compared to the rest of the world, as I've said several times already. So that means actually further proves that you are in the minority. And regarding the Sindel plot twist bashers, I was talking about only them, not the whole Sindel fanbase, because there are also a ton of Sindel fans who aren't triggered by this, just like a ton of Mileena fans are not triggered by her not being in MK11. I myself am a Mileena fan, she is my top 4 favorite MK character ever and my top favorite female MK character ever, yet I'm not triggered by her not being in MK11 that I keep bitching about it nonstop, let alone to the point I'm attacking and harnessing others over that nonstop every chance I get. The people that kept harnessing Kittelsen over Sindel however did this constantly to him, every single morning in fact, and when he also had other personal issues in life like dealing with an illness that his son had at the time. Even if it was a small amount of people, the fact that they took it that far and clearly showed no empathy at all just because they don't wanna see anything that doesn't go with their restrict perfect idea of what an MK game should be, proves how this approach is invalid in it's core, just like all of you are saying that Kittelsen and NRS don't have passion for MK just because they some stuff that don't go with your perfect MK world idea. Oh and it's really cute that you quoted only this part of my comment, you know that your approach to the matter is false, as I've said.



Again, how do you know that many people didn't buy Aftermath? Even if you met some people outside of the interent who didn't buy Aftermath that doesn't indicate the whole list of buyers. We don't have the actual sales numbers or data for MK11 Aftermath, you can't just make up the sales numbers or data based on the reaction that you happened to come across alone. I've seen many people that did buy the Aftermath update in it's entirety and didn't wait for the characters to be sold separately (which BTW should be possible by now). Does that mean I can say automatically how many people bought the full update compared to how many people bought the base game for MK11 and/or KP1? Of course not.

And the fan-service isn't cringe at all, and sure as fuck there isn't any over exposition here. All of those character traits show-case is exactly what you need to do in order let the players know them better, especially if they're knew to the series. You need to get more fans to your franchise if you wanna make the series grow, and you do it by showcasing their personality and lore as much as possible. And you're saying that Jax and Sheeva are the only two exceptions? Because if they are what you consider being "developed for real", you can say the same thing for the entire roster of MK11. Also those iconic lines get used maybe like 3-4 times TOPS, that's not overuse by any stretch of the imagination. Same thing with the Krypt, all of those places the and the stories about them that are explained and extremely well done. I've enjoyed the Krypt so much because it showed so many Easter eggs for past MK media and explained so many things so well that once again, can help more fans get into the rich and deep lore of MK, and it even helped understand stuff that I didn't even know about MK's lore. Also, MK9 was the one story that actually was closer to have "characters that just pop up and disappear", MKX and MK11 had those cases way less then MK9, especially MK11. And regarding the time travel style story, MK9 started it way back in 2011 with Raiden's visions from his Future-self. And you wanna compare that to the Marvel movies? The only time they did it was in Avengers End Game, which was released to the world RIGHT AFTER the release of MK11. And other fighting game franchises copied the time-travel storyline from MK9 as well and all in different approaches. SoulCalibur 6 did it with Zasalamel (who received visions from his future-self just like Raiden did in MK9) and also Cassandra, and even Dragon Ball FighterZ created 3 different timelines to it's story mode. All of this way before MK11 was made. And you know why they did it? Because the time travel storyline has worked for MK9, so they wanted to cash in on it. MK11 just used the time travel storyline a 2nd time after MK9.

So no, there is no over-exposition, you're just over-exaggerating, and you clearly don't even know the history of MK, you don't even know what's going on the world outside of MK. You just wanna keep the things old school for MK and don't want it to grow and evolve like every super popular franchise should be. You just wanna be stuck in your perfect world, just like all of the bashers.



The only thing that is embarrassing here is this website, because like I said, there are severe issues with it, and in way more ways then one. Just like the interent portion of the NetherRealm Studios and Mortal Kombat communities in general have severe issues.

And therefore, I know what my objective should be from now on, which is not to talk to anyone on TYM anymore. There is no use to it, it's a lost cause.

TYM is a joke, as it doesn't stand for Test Your Might, but rather for Totally Yucky Morons. Period.

Tough morning?