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VSM KT Smith's Living Injustice Tier Chart

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
There was a lot of good footage of me from ECT but it's gone off of kombat network twitch and I don't know why. My top 32 matches were all off stream but ill invite jer to recount the match versus flux again lol
R u going to Evo or CEO or anywhere outside the NE?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
nice cop out.
Made the read on you trying to dodge the question, listed 4 for your viewing pleasure directly above your post. Now then, back to the original question.
Why do you have him pegged so low? What does he lack that the characters above him do not?

EDIT:

I don't see any reasoning of your own, I'm still waiting on why YOU feel he is that low.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
LOL.

Haven't you heard? Everyone on the East Coast is terrible and doesn't travel. All East Coast players do is stay home on their turf and beat up on players who are equally as bad as them.

There were no good Killer Frost's at ECT, and none of them exist on the East Coast. 16bit is the only player in the world that knows how to play the character. Just like how Perfect Legend is the only person in the world that knows how to play Scorpion.

Here, let me quote one of my favorites saying's from PL himself:




P.S.
East Coast doesn't deserve to make tier lists of any kind.
Ok but that's sort of unfair because I always point to you when people talk kabal. I talk about your kabal like I do bit's frost

Also my understanding is Tom beats the frosts over there but couldn't get close to bit, so what am I missing?

Also I give your scorpion love
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
But can you tell me why? Or are you just going off of a predisposition?
As a better question, why is Doomsday so high up? Not as a form of trolling, but as an honest question.
What is it that makes Doomsday better than the people below him?
Because Bane is shit

It's common sense by now
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
What does he lack that the characters above him do not?
now you're asking the right questions.

what bane lacks:

safe or any mobility options (his forward dash goes far but can be easily scouted and punished).
any presence beyond his d1 range.

and for a command grab character in a game full of strong zoning that is enough, but he also has:

Huge lack of space control
a floaty jump arc that makes AA's ripe for the picking.
A gimmicky trait that is a gamble to use that anyone any good will hurt you for using.
Low damage output (venom notwithstanding).

The only non-losing match ups he has are against characters that share his space control deficiencies and can get actually get a knockdown into command grab mix-ups which don't even hurt that much.

He has all the problems of The Flash and Catwoman and more.

Bane has no coherent game plan.

There is no reason to use Bane over Grundy.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Because Bane is shit

It's common sense by now
So basically, because you heard it at one point you think nothing of it past that. I remember back when people let characters go under the radar like that... But that's beyond the point.

Your common sense doesn't make much sense. Do you always put down characters without knowing their kits?
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
So basically, because you heard it at one point you think nothing of it past that. I remember back when people let characters go under the radar like that... But that's beyond the point.

Your common sense doesn't make much sense. Do you always put down characters without knowing their kits?
You obviously don't know who PoTH is......

But I think the same can be said for you. Bane is a grappler who doesn't really have good grappling...... or good fast quick strings..... in a game that doesnt' reward single hit armor, and rewards large space control.

Pretty sure KT answered your question anyhow.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
now you're asking the right questions.

what bane lacks:

safe or any mobility options (his forward dash goes far but can be easily scouted and punished).
any presence beyond his d1 range.

Dash goes as far and fast as doomsday/grundy, I can cover the screen before you can go from high to low shot.
Beyond d.1 range he has f.2d, double punch, command grab, etc. On that note, his range is just short of catwoman's whip if he uses his neutral on guard 11 frame overhead.

and for a command grab character in a game full of strong zoning that is enough, but he also has:

Huge lack of space control

Basically no projectiles, but covers the screen as fast as Doomsday/grundy.

a floaty jump arc that makes AA's ripe for the picking.

Most Banes aren't going to be apt to jump-in unless its a free cross-up with splash. Ground work.

A gimmicky trait that is a gamble to use that anyone any good will hurt you for using.

Gives more than it takes, letting us get projectile immune, armor ignoring, armor on our 11 frame overhead, a projectile immune dash, 150% damage output and BnB combos that kill off of one wrong guess on top of armor on all the specials on a 6 second cooldown.

Also gives us more or less 18 seconds of free armor on all of our specials.

Low damage output (venom notwithstanding).

42% at level 1 venom meterless is on par with what KF does, so I personally don't see it. Without venom its in the area of 38% meterless.

The only non-losing match ups he has are against characters that share his space control deficiencies and can get actually get a knockdown into command grab mix-ups which don't even hurt that much.

His non-losing MUs include Scorpion, Ares, and the like. He goes even with people like Deathstroke. So I can't say I agree. Also after eating 3 or 4 command grabs in a row give or take, you'll be reconsidering. If you don't have a good wake-up, then you better have some amazing zoning because it'll be a fight to get off your back.

He has all the problems of The Flash and Catwoman and more.

Has all the benefit of Grundy, Superman, and more with more damage and less cooldown.

Bane has no coherent game plan.

He has a very coherent game plan. Knock them down, pressure them with his oki, armored specials, and decent/high damage output which stems into the ~50 area meterless at level 2 venom (not even level 3 which is where the damage is), hit them with our massively +17 on hit d.1 and +12 on block b.1 to ensure they can't escape. I don't know if you realize it but Bane can basically keep someone in a blockstring well beyond his cooldowns, and the only option you have is to have something on wake-up that manages to be invulnerable and to know your grab immune attacks. If you don't know your character in relation to Bane's tactics, you can only hope the Bane player is highly unskilled. That included with his b.23 fast stands, OHVCS tech, Aug tech, and so on so forth.

There is no reason to use Bane over Grundy.
There's no reason to use Grundy over Bane, as it would be.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
You obviously don't know who PoTH is......

But I think the same can be said for you. Bane is a grappler who doesn't really have good grappling...... or good fast quick strings..... in a game that doesnt' reward single hit armor, and rewards large space control.

Pretty sure KT answered your question anyhow.
Swine of the Shanty, I know of him but I haven't met him personally. Still, the "oh he sucks, its common knowledge" reeks of "I will assume the character has no tools because everyone says so." I'll hope I'm wrong though, but its not unheard of for characters to go under the radar because of the "common knowledge".

Bane is a brawler who has a command grab and an anti-air grab, the highest damage output in the game, some of the best oki, one of the best traits, and while I lack a 6 frame jab or low I do still get +16 - +18 every time I throw out an attack and some decently high damage output to boot.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
that's a lovely training room assessment of Bane you have.

let me know when you play someone good and they allow you to do all this stuff to them, I'd like to see the footage. because that's the only way it will happen, if they allow you free reign.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
So basically, because you heard it at one point you think nothing of it past that. I remember back when people let characters go under the radar like that... But that's beyond the point.

Your common sense doesn't make much sense. Do you always put down characters without knowing their kits?
I've played every bane

Still have no idea what his win pose looks like
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
that's a lovely training room assessment of Bane you have.

let me know when you play someone good and they allow you to do all this stuff to them, I'd like to see the footage. because that's the only way it will happen, if they allow you free reign.
KT is going me too many mixed emotions, I feel like I'm in a relationship

I love his bane bashing posts but not so much the others lol
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Swine of the Shanty, I know of him but I haven't met him personally. Still, the "oh he sucks, its common knowledge" reeks of "I will assume the character has no tools because everyone says so." I'll hope I'm wrong though, but its not unheard of for characters to go under the radar because of the "common knowledge".

Bane is a brawler who has a command grab and an anti-air grab, the highest damage output in the game, some of the best oki, one of the best traits, and while I lack a 6 frame jab or low I do still get +16 - +18 every time I throw out an attack and some decently high damage output to boot.
Bane just seriously isn't worth the arguing
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
that's a lovely training room assessment of Bane you have.

let me know when you play someone good and they allow you to do all this stuff to them, I'd like to see the footage. because that's the only way it will happen, if they allow you free reign.
On account of a Bane taking top 5 in a tourney over in EU pre-dash/venom buff, I don't really think I need to.
But on that note, you give a very lacking argument on your side. Do you know what the OHVCS tech is? Do you know how the b.23 fast stand works? How fast can you cram out an invulnerable wake-up against someone who is throwing out attacks which eat through anything but?

Its not a matter of what the opponent allows, its a matter of what they can stop. Also, I listed off nothing but his tools. "Training room assessment" basically covered the basics, now if you want to get into theory fighting I can go all out. But for now, I just listed the very bare minimum.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
But when I beat you you'll then say "well you're just better" or something up playing bane
Well you likely are better, I think we've had this discussion before and you offered to pick me up on your way to CEO but I declined because of home obligations. Also I've asked to play you before but I've been busy with work and a nasty sunburn. I don't up-play Bane, I play him to the amount he is supposed to be at but everyone else downplays him to m2dave levels.