Question Video - How do I Deal with Shinnok Skeleton Hand Spam?

[Bhagwad]

As you can see in this video, I'm having trouble dealing with the skeleton hand that Shinnok uses in fights:

(Short 48 second video)

I can either:

1. Block high
2. Block low
3. Move away

I've tried all three tactics in the video - block high, block low, and move out, and none of them seem to work. How do you guys deal with it?

 

[CrazyFingers]

Running gets past a lot of the issues you're having, it makes skeleton hands whiff a lot.

 

[Bhagwad]

Running gets past a lot of the issues you're having, it makes skeleton hands whiff a lot.

Running huh? I'll keep that in mind. I've never actually run on purpose in a game...!

Actually, you can see in 0:17 I try and dash forward. But that means you have to let go of your block and his hand can grab you right? That's what happened.

 

[True Grave]

Block the hand grab then run in. The hand smash takes almost a full second to use so get used to reacting to that. Hand flick is -2 on block, but can be ducked and ran past. The hand grab has good trackinf which makea that one specifically harder to run past, but it can be done.

I'd suggest playing sets against Necromancers to help with the MU and get your brain to react in accordance to what your opponent does. I play Neceo so of you want games or tips let me know.

 

[Bhagwad]

Block the hand grab then run in. The hand smash takes almost a full second to use so get used to reacting to that. Hand flick is -2 on block, but can be ducked and ran past. The hand grab has good trackinf which makea that one specifically harder to run past, but it can be done.

I'd suggest playing sets against Necromancers to help with the MU and get your brain to react in accordance to what your opponent does. I play Neceo so of you want games or tips let me know.

So if I block the hand flick (the one in front) and dash forward, his other attack (from the top) will miss?

Actually if you see the video, I block the grab at 0:16, then dash forward. Unfortunately, he uses the grab again instead of the smash from the top and I'm back to square A.

Is this a 50/50 situation?

 

[ChatterBox]

As you can see in this video, I'm having trouble dealing with the skeleton hand that Shinnok uses in fights:

(Short 48 second video)

I can either:

1. Block high
2. Block low
3. Move away

I've tried all three tactics in the video - block high, block low, and move out, and none of them seem to work. How do you guys deal with it?

go to training mode

Air hand is unblockable so you have to run or jump to beat it. Ground hand is a mid so just block and then it's very much your turn.

GO TO TRAINING MODE

wakeup exbf4 beats all of the things done in that video

fuzzy guard it (block for a short amount of time, then jump forward) beats both options

notice patterns that the other player is using, and then you'll have a Read on which move is coming next, so you can do the appropriate counter measure

and seriously, go to training mode and practice all of these things, it's always the first thing you should do

 

[Bhagwad]

go to training mode

Air hand is unblockable so you have to run or jump to beat it. Ground hand is a mid so just block and then it's very much your turn.

GO TO TRAINING MODE

wakeup exbf4 beats all of the things done in that video

fuzzy guard it (block for a short amount of time, then jump forward) beats both options

notice patterns that the other player is using, and then you'll have a Read on which move is coming next, so you can do the appropriate counter measure

and seriously, go to training mode and practice all of these things, it's always the first thing you should do

I spend much more time in training mode, than actual play . Around 80:20. I'm just asking for a specific strategy to use against one particular move based on the experience of other players.

Wrt "fuzzy blocking", is it a bug that allows the block to persist even after it's over?

 

[sling1414]

So if I block the hand flick (the one in front) and dash forward, his other attack (from the top) will miss?

Actually if you see the video, I block the grab at 0:16, then dash forward. Unfortunately, he uses the grab again instead of the smash from the top and I'm back to square A.

Is this a 50/50 situation?

No one is telling u to dash, run, its much faster and covers more ground, pretty much no reason to ever dash forwards.

 

[Invincible Salads]

No one is telling u to dash, run, its much faster and covers more ground, pretty much no reason to ever dash forwards.

well, forward dashing is great when you wanna conserve stamina.

 

[ChatterBox]

I spend much more time in training mode, than actual play . Around 80:20. I'm just asking for a specific strategy to use against one particular move based on the experience of other players.

Wrt "fuzzy blocking", is it a bug that allows the block to persist even after it's over?

fuzzy blocking is blocking in a predetermined pattern to protect against multiple options

If you spend that much time in training mode then please use it to learn defensive strategies. Lasher doesn't have to deal with either of those moves as long as he has a bar.

 

[Vithar]

Just run after you block the ''Poke one and the one from the ground''.
Same goes for the unblockable Hand from the Sky(you can predict he is using it by lifting his hand).
When u get in ~mid screen range you can use your B21 string and combo him for ~30% or something.
Or bait / read him and use the Armored Fists and even spend 2nd bar for launching him into a combo.

 

[Bhagwad]

fuzzy blocking is blocking in a predetermined pattern to protect against multiple options

If you spend that much time in training mode then please use it to learn defensive strategies. Lasher doesn't have to deal with either of those moves as long as he has a bar.

I can deal with the AI pretty well. It's human players that give me trouble.

 

[Error]

Running makes the flick whiff, that's the quicker hand attack. If your opponent knows you're going to run they can use the grab which tracks better, but on block allows you to move in. The slam comes in once you're respecting the grab option, you should be able to run or dash out of the way but they can make it land in front or behind you instead.

In the video you posted you were caught not knowing the match up and became predictable, all they did was alternate between grab and slam which on knockdown are countered in opposite ways.

Flick = run, but leaves you open to grab or hell sparks
grab = block and run in or a well timed jump, leaves you open to more flicks or hell sparks
slam = run/dash/jump/teleport out, leaves you open to grab on wake up

I don't know Takeda, but he probably has character specific options out as well.

 

[ChatterBox]

I can deal with the AI pretty well. It's human players that give me trouble.

That's cool, and I hope you didn't think I was trying to be mean. It's a harsh lesson we all have to learn, you gotta guess once you get hit, and make sure you're not just staying still and taking things you don't have to.

Look at the animation for air hand, learn to recognize and run or jump or whatever you need to do to avoid it since it's unblockable.

Ground hand is crazy fast but very negative on block, so anytime you're on the ground you gotta block that move. So once you block it, you need to recognize that as fast as possible then take your turn to so Shinnok can't do it again.

Every time you get hit by either one of those moves you're in the same situation: on the ground fullscreen from Necromancer Shinnok, and you need to know what to do there. What are his Options? What are yours?

His immediate options are air unblockable hand, ground hand, and flick. Your immediate options are wakeup attack, move (run and/or jump), and delayed wakeup. These are all the things you should be doing in training mode. Learn every move you're losing to and how to beat it. Then recognize every bad situation you get in and how to turn it to your advantage or weather the storm until it's your turn.

This is fighting games, you got hit so you have to guess, and every time you do make a mental note to track the patterns in your opponent so you're more likely to guess right next time. It takes years to develop this skill and it's the most important one for fighting games. It's why we call them reads instead of guesses when the great players do it.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I can deal with the AI pretty well. It's human players that give me trouble.

Why are you fighting the ai in training mode? Its a waste of time. Focus on things that give you problems and focus on your execution rather than wasting time playing a non human opponent.

 

[Bhagwad]

Why are you fighting the ai in training mode? Its a waste of time. Focus on things that give you problems and focus on your execution rather than wasting time playing a non human opponent.

Because lots of people (see comment #6) tell me I should be spending most of my time in training mode!

 

[Tweedy]

Possessed and Necromancer have similar zoning.

You can run passed all of their "zoning" tools, but they have something to counteract running(Shinnok has hellsparks, Kenshi has push).

So you just gotta make a read on what they're going to do.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Because lots of people (see comment #6) tell me I should be spending most of my time in training mode!

be spending your time in training mode yes, but no one said anything about fighting the ai. You don't learn anything because they aren't human players, so you'll end up picking up bad habits.

 

[Ozzy_K]

Don't forget, Takeda also has Air Tordado Strike (bf4 in the air), which can allow to close in on the opponent. Just another option to keep in mind.

 

[callMEcrazy]

This sounds like a problem I used to have against Inferno. Running definitely helps.

 

[The_Tile]

Wrt "fuzzy blocking", is it a bug that allows the block to persist even after it's over?

I think fuzzy guarding is much better to explain with an example than a straight up explanation.

If a character has both an overhead and a low, but the low starts up in 7 frames and the overhead comes out in 18 frames, on paper you can block low for 7-18 frames then block high and you'll block both options every time without having to make a read.

Things are usually more complex than that though because the opponent can delay the low so it hits at the same time as the overhead usually would and mess up your timing.

And don't get put off if you get a bad reception here, a lot of FG players get arsey when trying to explain things to newer players. Just take it on the chin and carry on learning cause you seem to have a pretty good attitude about it all anyway, good luck!

 

[Hiyomoto]

Well it's not just about how to get out. Look at your opponents patterns. All he does is Hand then fist hand then fist. Block the fist (which is over -20 IIRC) and run when you see the hand coming. Sometimes you don't really need a way when you already know what the opponent is going to attempt next. The flicking hand is a joke, I run past those on a read every time.

 

[El_Rubio]

Not reading all posts, try teleport and remember which movement is unblockable.

 

[SaSSolino]

the hand grab is very negavite on block, just block and use the advantage to run in.

the flick is something you can run past easily, but it isn't very negative on block as it's slow on startup.

you can run past the unblockable from above also, it can be run cancelled though, so be careful.

finally, hellsparks are very negative on block and can either be punished upclose or give you a free way in from far, just be careful that they can be meter burned. try to always check Shinnok's meter, he gets from incredibly good to incredibly bad the second he's out of it as he loses all his best tools.

jumping also helps evading every full screen tool Necromancer has, but if the Shinnok player reads the jump he can punish you easily.

EDIT: uh yeah, also teleports.

Running gets past a lot of the issues you're having, it makes skeleton hands whiff a lot.

nope, you can run past the flick, not the hand grab.