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Match-up Discussion Vak's Hawkgirl Match-Up Chart

Agree?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 19.5%
  • Mostly

    Votes: 16 39.0%
  • No

    Votes: 17 41.5%

  • Total voters
    41

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
Hawkgirl can wing evade through the gaps in 33, b2~lasso, along with some of Wonder Woman's other frame trap options and get a full combo punish. She can delay her wing evade to beat your d2 so it's a guessing game for both. Your iaDG has to be perfect or else she can punish with d1~mace charge. Jump back 3 will beat mace charge or WE 3 on a read, but a good Hawkgirl player won't just flowchart with those two moves. WoWo can beat Hawkgirl's wake-ups with b3, f3 or delayed b2, but if that's all you're doing you aren't getting any 50/50s. You still have to read when she's going to do them. Her close normals (d1/d2) work fine against Wonder Woman too.
 

Vak Phoenix

did i mention that im poison?
Hawkgirl can wing evade through the gaps in 33, b2~lasso, along with some of Wonder Woman's other frame trap options and get a full combo punish. She can delay her wing evade to beat your d2 so it's a guessing game for both. Your iaDG has to be perfect or else she can punish with d1~mace charge. Jump back 3 will beat mace charge or WE 3 on a read, but a good Hawkgirl player won't just flowchart with those two moves. WoWo can beat Hawkgirl's wake-ups with b3, f3 or delayed b2, but if that's all you're doing you aren't getting any 50/50s. You still have to read when she's going to do them. Her close normals (d1/d2) work fine against Wonder Woman too.
Hop on lolli
 

kaseyk

Noob
The fact that you claimed mmh is 5-5, makes me want to irresponsibly go buy a playstation, and/or get a plane ticket to the czech republic.
vak might not be to far off on his 5-5 mmh

@Espio has a great vid showing alot of punishable holes in mmh strings and i made this teleport punish vid earlier .


i personally have a lot to learn in the mu , but i can see where vak is coming from in his estimate of 5-5
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
News Editor
I'm glad someone else has Sinestro as not that bad of a MU, just curious, why do you have Deathstroke as only a 4-6? I only read the chart, didn't see if that was mentioned
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
vak might not be to far off on his 5-5 mmh

@Espio has a great vid showing alot of punishable holes in mmh strings and i made this teleport punish vid earlier .


i personally have a lot to learn in the mu , but i can see where vak is coming from in his estimate of 5-5
Almost every character has the ability to forward dash OH tele or use an advancing special to avoid it and punish, so what's new here. It's neat, but good luck baiting teleport when I'm perfectly content placing a close MB orb and throwing shit at you all match.

You guys don't understand how the risk/reward of these strategies are skewed in MMH's favor. I control every part of the screen, this is mmh's world, you're just allowed to live in it. For every 5 videos you have WE training mode MMH, I can make a quick 2 sec video of me placing far MB orb and chucking projectiles HG can't do shit about. Or just talk about how I massively outfootsie you, outdamage you, and limit your character so hard at every part of the screen that you're forced to use 1 special and pray you don't fuck up.
 

kaseyk

Noob
Almost every character has the ability to forward dash OH tele or use an advancing special to avoid it and punish, so what's new here. It's neat, but good luck baiting teleport when I'm perfectly content placing a close MB orb and throwing shit at you all match.

You guys don't understand how the risk/reward of these strategies are skewed in MMH's favor. I control every part of the screen, this is mmh's world, you're just allowed to live in it. For every 5 videos you have WE training mode MMH, I can make a quick 2 sec video of me placing far MB orb and chucking projectiles HG can't do shit about. Or just talk about how I massively outfootsie you, outdamage you, and limit your character so hard at every part of the screen that you're forced to use 1 special and pray you don't fuck up.

P.S. Stop deleting my posts in this thread, Espio.

You picked the 2 shittiest punishes in that video and it had nothing to do with baiting tp because you can react to it . Rego tp on block mmh eats 47% or over 60% if interactables are in range, and if you always time your wing evade for oh tp you will block rego tp so win win . Hg uses wing evade to avoid all the casts moves not a pray factor to it we practice it.
You cant always have a mb orb , mmh does not out damage hg , espios vid shows he does not omg out footsy hg .
Idk why your so aggressive over vaks oppinion of this mu .
My oppinion is a hard 6-4 mmh favor but i lack xp against strong mmh players to really put a solid number on it .
Edit : i find mmh 's best tool against hg is the mb tracking pillar completely shuts down flight
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
You picked the 2 shittiest punishes in that video and it had nothing to do with baiting tp because you can react to it . Rego tp on block mmh eats 47% or over 60% if interactables are in range, and if you always time your wing evade for oh tp you will block rego tp so win win . Hg uses wing evade to avoid all the casts moves not a pray factor to it we practice it.
You cant always have a mb orb , mmh does not out damage hg , espios vid shows he does not omg out footsy hg .
Idk why your so aggressive over vaks oppinion of this mu .
My oppinion is a hard 6-4 mmh favor but i lack xp against strong mmh players to really put a solid number on it .
Edit : i find mmh 's best tool against hg is the mb tracking pillar completely shuts down flight

You're cherry picking scenarios that you created in training mode and passing it off to make it seem like HG has some kind of advantage when in reality literally every character can punish a blocked teleport for 40%. It's not impressive. MMH players shouldn't be teleporting randomly in neutral in the first place was my point. You're not reacting to tele lmao, you're scouting it which leaves you susceptible to everything else.

As far as I know, not even tournament HG/MMH players have ever agreed a 5-5, with Jupiter going so far to say a 2 day mmh can beat HG. He was being hyperbolic obviously, but the point still stands it's clear as crystal mmh wins this MU. I'm open to discussion but so far the only thing Vak's "opinion" brings to table is "check out this online PSN set with this guy who knows how to pick MMH", so of course I'm gonna bring up how sketch that is.
 

Vak Phoenix

did i mention that im poison?
You're cherry picking scenarios that you created in training mode and passing it off to make it seem like HG has some kind of advantage when in reality literally every character can punish a blocked teleport for 40%. It's not impressive. MMH players shouldn't be teleporting randomly in neutral in the first place was my point. You're not reacting to tele lmao, you're scouting it which leaves you susceptible to everything else.

As far as I know, not even tournament HG/MMH players have ever agreed a 5-5, with Jupiter going so far to say a 2 day mmh can beat HG. He was being hyperbolic obviously, but the point still stands it's clear as crystal mmh wins this MU. I'm open to discussion but so far the only thing Vak's "opinion" brings to table is "check out this online PSN set with this guy who knows how to pick MMH", so of course I'm gonna bring up how sketch that is.
whatever, keep saying that she loses, so when you will lose to hawkgirl, you will need to find other excuses.
 

Eldriken

You are marked for termination.
Forum General
whatever, keep saying that she loses, so when you will lose to hawkgirl, you will need to find other excuses.
Erm, that doesn't really change anything, dude. >_>

Doomsday beats Joker, Raven (his most favorable MU) and other characters and I've lost against them. Does that mean they beat Doomsday or just that the other person happened to outplay me during that particular match?

Shazz could lose to a good Hawkgirl player and it not change anything in regards to his opinion on the MU. He'd probably chalk it up to simply being outplayed.
 
Erm, that doesn't really change anything, dude. >_>

Doomsday beats Joker, Raven (his most favorable MU) and other characters and I've lost against them. Does that mean they beat Doomsday or just that the other person happened to outplay me during that particular match?

Shazz could lose to a good Hawkgirl player and it not change anything in regards to his opinion on the MU. He'd probably chalk it up to simply being outplayed.
No he's right it's even eldriken, that way if he beat a hawkgirl 3-0 in tournament i outplayed them.
 
I only disagree with lex vs hg being 5-5. it may be slighty in lex favor like 6-4

Lex has alot of antiair moves that can ground her, and when she's on the ground she needs to worry about the mines. I guess you can zone him but lex can outzone her with orbs, orbital strike and lance blast, the only thing HG really controls in the match is the corner but you have to fight your way there. meter burning her mace toss is risky as well with mines being thrown on the field, and if you try to mace charge lex can make a read and get you with his gravity pull for a good 40+ % punish + trait, or just jump and use hyper axe, which is also another useful move in that matchup. I'm not even going to mention his armor factor because every single character has to worry about that, some deal with it better than others. but I can see where you coming from with 5-5, hawkgirl outdamages lex and once she gets close in, lex has a hard time getting her off and by the time he does his health bar will be pretty low.
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
whatever, keep saying that she loses, so when you will lose to hawkgirl, you will need to find other excuses.
If I ever lost to the character that is Hawkgirl, I would just stop. I would quit my whole life to journey on a sabbatical hoping to find meaning for myself spiritually, try to somehow cope with the sinking realization that my life is a failure no matter what I do.
 

Kyu

CHOO CHOO BANE TRAIN
Going to disagree on the Bane matchup, I see it as 6-4 his favor. D2 j3 and Venom Uppercut are great at keeping her out of the air, we can armor through a lot of the pressure, and the damage trades are far in our favor.
 

kaseyk

Noob
You're cherry picking scenarios that you created in training mode and passing it off to make it seem like HG has some kind of advantage when in reality literally every character can punish a blocked teleport for 40%. It's not impressive. MMH players shouldn't be teleporting randomly in neutral in the first place was my point. You're not reacting to tele lmao, you're scouting it which leaves you susceptible to everything else.

As far as I know, not even tournament HG/MMH players have ever agreed a 5-5, with Jupiter going so far to say a 2 day mmh can beat HG. He was being hyperbolic obviously, but the point still stands it's clear as crystal mmh wins this MU. I'm open to discussion but so far the only thing Vak's "opinion" brings to table is "check out this online PSN set with this guy who knows how to pick MMH", so of course I'm gonna bring up how sketch that is.
again you are taking what im saying the wrong way or maybe im taking it wrong . I agree this is one of her bad mu's , but as a hg player and speaking from that perspective the way ive come to play this mu all his zoning tools are reactable ( wing evade or block or a punish or escape ) except mb pillar if your in the air or really doing anything premtive full or 4/5th screen which mmh can easily react with is the main reason i have the mu a hard 6-4 mmh. What ive learned from your comments is you know little of how hg is played in any mu .
Side note a 2 day mmh could manhandle 95% of the cast the characters skill set is to good and his dirt is plain easy to master .
 
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