Unsolved Mysteries of MKX: Fake Patch Changes

[Tony at Home]

Just want to pitch a new "Unsolved Mysteries of MKX"

No zoning in a game that has three top-tier zoners.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Just want to pitch a new "Unsolved Mysteries of MKX"

No zoning in a game that has three top-tier zoners.

Only 3?
Can we make a list of top tier/proven tournament champs who have zoning as a major part of their gameplay? Quick list:


Royal Storm
HQT
Summoner
Sorceror
Aftershock(?)



I'm sure there is more too

 

[Doombawkz]

There was that one time that Ferra/Torr's grab buff became an cold case

But then we protested with cute anime pictures and the case was solved.

 

[Tony at Home]

Only 3?
Can we make a list of top tier/proven tournament champs who have zoning as a major part of their gameplay? Quick list:


Royal Storm
HQT
Summoner
Sorceror
Aftershock(?)



I'm sure there is more too

Yeah, I actually forgot about aftershock.

SF Sonya is a zoning monster so I include her. HQT and Quan definitely as well

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Just want to pitch a new "Unsolved Mysteries of MKX"

No zoning in a game that has three top-tier zoners.

Top tier in terms of zoners or within the game as a whole?

 

[STRYKIE]

Yeah, I actually forgot about aftershock.

SF Sonya is a zoning monster so I include her. HQT and Quan definitely as well

Special Forces isn't really tournament proven though, otherwise you could make a shout for Mournful and Warlock.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Special Forces isn't really tournament proven though, otherwise you could make a shout for Mournful and Warlock.

I think Warlock belongs up there, even as QCs worst variation he's better than plenty characters best variation, and just because he has armor doesn't change that he's an amazing zoner. I just didn't put him up there because I didn't want QC players going rabid about it as always, but you are right I agree if we are going to put SF up we'd have to put mournful and Warlock up there

My question is - Shinnok has strong elements of zoning in fact is biggest strength is dope projectiles and space control, I think it would be fair to include him right? Not necessarily as "spamming projectiles" but it's still definitely "ZONEing" if you will right?

 

[Undergroundepict]

I think Warlock belongs up there, even as QCs worst variation he's better than plenty characters best variation, and just because he has armor doesn't change that he's an amazing zoner. I just didn't put him up there because I didn't want QC players going rabid about it as always, but you are right I agree if we are going to put SF up we'd have to put mournful and Warlock up there

My question is - Shinnok has strong elements of zoning in fact is biggest strength is dope projectiles and space control, I think it would be fair to include him right? Not necessarily as "spamming projectiles" but it's still definitely "ZONEing" if you will right?

That, and I think you have to include long range normals and special moves along with projectiles in the category of "things you zone with." His low scoop goes more than half-screen for fucksake.

Part of my zone out strategy with Pumped Up Jax (perhaps the most underrated zoner in the game) includes using downward dash punch when people are in range of it and trying to duck my energy wave.

You could argue that Takeda is essentially "zoning you" using his normals, specials, and ranged attacks.

Zoning is, by definition, controlling space, and should not simply be thought of in terms of projectile attacks.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Yeah I classify a zoner as a character who's gameplan revolves around controlling a specific portion of the screen, and by successfully doing so, limits your options while maximizing theirs.

Now, realistically, this definition when applied.to close range rush-down essentially means they are a zoner as well, its just that the zone they control, or want to control, is point blank while, say, Tremor wants you as far away as possible, Shinnok wants you, what, about 3/4 screen? And Takeda wants you somewhere around B21 distance (damn near 3/4 screen). But depending on circumstances, all these characters may change the ideal distance based on who.they are playing, etc.

I guess a zoner is closer (by my.definition) to a character that succeeds by playing a game that is part keep away and part 'keep at'. He/she needs you at a set distance AWAY to properly mount defense and offense.

So by that somewhat loose definition, we have a handful of solid zoners. The difference in MKX is that I think Zoning in this game is meant to work hand in hand with.closer range ass beating. The idea isn't to kill at full screen but to hurt them on the way in, so when you're toe to toe you have a.life advantage, then push them back ASAP and repeat the process.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Take SFIV.. I don't see people screaming that it has no zoning.. But look at some of its top zoners:

Sagat
Dhalsim
Guile
Gouken
Juri

When was the last time you saw any of them played purely full screen AT A HIGH LEVEL? Bonchan's Sagat is some of the most beautiful zone control you will ever see. Art's Sim is designed to keep away, then apply tele-pressure, then gtfo, repeat. A good Juri like AiAi knows when to stop the mindless fireball wall to apply pressure, or to use it to frustrate, then go in. Dieminion's Guile, among with Du's do much the same, hurt you on the way in and when they have you frustrated and are sitting on a life advantage they pressure YOU, by coming in, maintaining an optimal distance, and beating your ass.

I think people just want to call zoning sitting at full screen projectile spamming and nothing else, when I think that's just.. Cheap.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

That, and I think you have to include long range normals and special moves along with projectiles in the category of "things you zone with." His low scoop goes more than half-screen for fucksake.

Part of my zone out strategy with Pumped Up Jax (perhaps the most underrated zoner in the game) includes using downward dash punch when people are in range of it and trying to duck my energy wave.

You could argue that Takeda is essentially "zoning you" using his normals, specials, and ranged attacks.

Zoning is, by definition, controlling space, and should not simply be thought of in terms of projectile attacks.

Yeah and there is the option select that goes into some peoples arguments... "Oh TRUE zoning isn't just spamming projectiles it's controlling the space with different zone tools"

So then you say cool, so we got a whole bunch of zoning characters in this game and the response is "lol you think Jax is a zoner what a scrub".

If you want someone who just throws projectiles, there is like 3 different character in the top 10 for that. You want characters who zone and control the space with other tools, there is another 2-3 options for that in the top 10 alone. I don't think M2Dave and his band of muppets will be satisfied until rush down is no longer an option in the game lol. Problem is he is a terrible zoner as well so it still won't be enough.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

yeah, that's the issue. So many people who advocate 'zoning' don't understand what it really is and should be. They want a set of basic tools that let them sit full screen the entire match throwing things at you without ever needing to engage in any real fighting.

Its like some people want to boil and entire fight down to no more than having to guess if I'll jump, duck or block the next projectile and if they guess right they scream ZONING O M G ZOMG KERPLWN SCRUB and diddle themselves while cramming more Cheetos in their mouths. I dunno why that is put on some lofty skill pedestal when 'non-zoners' have to keep track or, and execute a SHITLOAD more than that. Its like a Gouken in SFIV spamming from full screen. Don't get me wrong, the fireball mind-games ARE a skill, but so are the numerous decisions per-second of fighting up close when instead of three fireballs you have, of, 6-10 normals and 3-4 specials on top of throws, parrys in some instances, jumping attacks, empty jumps, crossups, fake crossups, ambiguous crossups, resets, back and forward dashes, cancels blah blah blah.

But, no, you're right, those two or three projectiles you have to decide between, WAY more skill than stupid rush-down fools.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Totally unrelated, does anyone else right click and 'add to dictionary' words that don't exist sometimes, just to make the red underline go away? My dictionary has all the MK characters, SFIV characters and shit like ZOMG and such all added.. Just so I don't constantly see that stupid red when I post.

 

[STRYKIE]

I think Warlock belongs up there, even as QCs worst variation he's better than plenty characters best variation, and just because he has armor doesn't change that he's an amazing zoner. I just didn't put him up there because I didn't want QC players going rabid about it as always, but you are right I agree if we are going to put SF up we'd have to put mournful and Warlock up there

My question is - Shinnok has strong elements of zoning in fact is biggest strength is dope projectiles and space control, I think it would be fair to include him right? Not necessarily as "spamming projectiles" but it's still definitely "ZONEing" if you will right?

Yeah, that's the thing, Warlock seems to be a very misunderstood/misinformed variation in general anyway, if it belonged to a different character I do believe it would see a lot more play time. I've been wanting to do some kind of write up for it but there's some things I'd like to further develop my understanding of before I do.

Zoning is indeed essentially about dictating specific space and specific ZONES, Shinnok at least in Bone Shaper still serves that purpose well so I don't see why not.

 

[Youphemism]

Special Forces isn't really tournament proven though, otherwise you could make a shout for Mournful and Warlock.

> Says SF Sonya isn't tournament proven even though Scar used it and won at the very least games with it at AB6
> Says Warlock is tournament proven even though it's either never been used or is rarely ever used

 

[STRYKIE]

> Says SF Sonya isn't tournament proven even though Scar used it and won at the very least games with it at AB6
> Says Warlock is tournament proven even though it's either never been used or is rarely ever used

The fuck is AB6.... I never said Warlock was tournament proven either.

 

[Youphemism]

The fuck is AB6.... I never said Warlock was tournament proven either.

Absolute Battles, as in that major that Scar won with all Sonya, and maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said but Warlock being tournament proven is what I got from when you said "Special Forces isn't really tournament proven, otherwise you could make a shout for Mournful and Warlock."

 

[STRYKIE]

Absolute Battles, as in that major that Scar won with all Sonya, and maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said but Warlock being tournament proven is what I got from when you said "Special Forces isn't really tournament proven, otherwise you could make a shout for Mournful and Warlock."

Can't say I've seen it, anyway my point is that while those variations are good zoners on paper (and IMO they are good zoners in practice anyway), they have relatively limited exposure compared to the other examples that were given, if they were to be mentioned in such a thread on the basis of tournament success.

 

[Youphemism]

Can't say I've seen it, anyway my point is that while those variations are good zoners on paper (and IMO they are good zoners in practice anyway), they have relatively limited exposure compared to the other examples that were given, if they were to be mentioned in such a thread on the basis of tournament success.

I see. SF Sonya is definitely underrepresented though, no reason for it to not be seen as much, Warlock you just don't see as much because Summoner and Sorcerer are just considered better.

 

[STRYKIE]

I see. SF Sonya is definitely underrepresented though, no reason for it to not be seen as much, Warlock you just don't see as much because Summoner and Sorcerer are just considered better.

Maybe Demolition and Covert Ops are just considered better?