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Universal Option Select that destroys Kano's 24-Tick/241+3 mix.

LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
There is a simple option select that makes you beat both of his options on block.
Kano's best moves are 241+3(high, low, mid) that launches into combo. And his 24-DBF2(Tick Throw) which can be ducked. Normally you would have to guess between the two but since there is OS that work for everyone vs Kano Ripper you don't have to guess..

How to do the OS?
You simply block low for first two hits (24) and let go of block(while still holding down) and quickly press block again and if done correctly you will duck the Tick Throw and Flawless Block the Mid Launcher. The flawless block on this OS makes his 241+3 -9 on block which is full combo punishable by most of the cast as demonstrated by Kotal in this video I made showing how its done visually:

OS vs Kano's 241+3 & 24xxCMD Grab(DBF2) & 221+3(overhead)
This is why Kano is Bottom Tier
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151580127261650944

As you can see I had it set to Random Hidden Playback so there was no way I knew what was coming and it was the same input every time and beat both options or at least avoided the tick altogether. You can U+2 off the FB but I don't recommend spending the bars.

Kano very much suffers from this and is why kano is absolutely bottom 5.
This means he has to put him self at huge risk for low reward with D1xxKanoBall Gimmicks instead of doing Safeway stuff because everything he has is highs, unsafe, OS punishable or low damage and very risky.

Enjoy hope it helps you vs Kano. With little practice you can consistently FB the Mid Launcher every time. Its about a 5f window to block with 3f window to Flawless block.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Vslayer said:
I'm deleting this thread for obvious reasons.


jk, but #BUFFKANONRS
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Perfectly understandable, this tech shouldn't exist. If the startup of 241+3 last hit came out 4-5 frames sooner it wouldn't be possible. Kano is so fun but if everyone learns the matchup it isn't in his favor to say the least. I guess this is what Biohazard was talking about, the reason he dropped him competitively. Glad I found it though I hears rumors of an OS but everyone was hush hush about it.
 
Check

Check

-
Great job, man. In MKX, this only worked with command grabs, but now in MK11, it works vs normal throws as well

As you mentioned, it lets you block low/mid (MK11's meta) for long enough without having to let go of block for more than a frame, and giving you time to release block as you see throw animation, since for this tech, you are letting go of block vs normal throws very late.

It is essentially highest level of play possible in MK11.

It might not be with all throws, but just the ones like Liu Kang (the ones with d2 Kounter whiff issues). I haven't played the game all that much, so i can't confirm it for any other throw animation.

Letting go of block can be issue, as blocking acts like a magnet when an attack or throw is coming, essentially forcing the move to hit/collide sooner than it should be. Another example of that would be Sonya's b1.

For some reason, these throws don't magnetize the block animation, giving you time to release block very late, and adapt. This is how all throws should be. Blocking animations shouldn't cause a move to hit sooner than intended. This also creates transitional block issues, since they can be 2 frames at times instead of 1 (removal of the midblock frame from mk9 has also caused this bug).

A mini duck (same input as a hop), is always a 1 frame return to neutral.
Midblock in MK9 was 1 frame.
With Midblock being gone, it can now sometimes take 2 frames to transition from low to high. This needs to be changed to always being 1 frame like MK9
Sorry for going off topic, just figured i'd bring this up while i was here, since i don't post much...

Thanks again for being an awesome contributor to community, Law.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Check said:
Great job, man. In MKX, this only worked with command grabs, but now in MK11, it works vs normal throws as well

As you mentioned, it lets you block low/mid (MK11's meta) for long enough without having to let go of block for more than a frame, and giving you time to release block as you see throw animation, since for this tech, you are letting go of block vs normal throws very late.

It is essentially highest level of play possible in MK11.

It might not be with all throws, but just the ones like Liu Kang (the ones with d2 Kounter whiff issues). I haven't played the game all that much, so i can't confirm it for any other throw animation.

Letting go of block can be issue, as blocking acts like a magnet when an attack or throw is coming, essentially forcing the move to hit/collide sooner than it should be. Another example of that would be Sonya's b1.

For some reason, these throws don't magnetize the block animation, giving you time to release block very late, and adapt. This is how all throws should be. Blocking animations shouldn't cause a move to hit sooner than intended. This also creates transitional block issues, since they can be 2 frames at times instead of 1 (removal of the midblock frame from mk9 has also caused this bug).

A mini duck (same input as a hop), is always a 1 frame return to neutral.
Midblock in MK9 was 1 frame.
With Midblock being gone, it can now sometimes take 2 frames to transition from low to high. This needs to be changed to always being 1 frame like MK9
Sorry for going off topic, just figured i'd bring this up while i was here, since i don't post much...

Thanks again for being an awesome contributor to community, Law.
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No problem man I do my best to help others so we grow as a community together improving each others game.
Hey are you the one who made the MKX combo videos (optimals)? If so you should start one for MK11
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Circus said:
In higher levels of the Kombat League, literally everyone does this vs me lol.

A good counter is 24xxKanoBall, but yea... that's risky as all f**k lmfao.
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what? My higher level KL players just pick sub zero or EB and just mash out random ohs and lows.
In all my time playing scarlet I've only had 2 people flawless block my strings, and scarlet is literally the easiest character to FB.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Circus said:
In higher levels of the Kombat League, literally everyone does this vs me lol.

A good counter is 24xxKanoBall, but yea... that's risky as all f**k lmfao.
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The only really good players I've faced have been clan teams, and TYMers in our very own TYM League/War Room & Tournaments.

None Online Ranked flawless block Shangs F242 or pokes out of Kotals B223 its mostly just mix you up Rushdown playstyle. That's why I like playing TYM members because they challenge my characters and I have to lab up stuff.

Yeah I've been hearing there was OS for Kano's mix but none shared or just didn't want it known? I understand though.

Have you found any Tech to get around the OS besides Kano Ball gimmicks?
 
Under_The_Mayo

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
LawAbidingCitizen said:
The only really good players I've faced have been clan teams, and TYMers in our very own TYM League/War Room & Tournaments.

None Online Ranked flawless block Shangs F242 or pokes out of Kotals B223 its mostly just mix you up Rushdown playstyle. That's why I like playing TYM members because they challenge my characters and I have to lab up stuff.
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Flawless blocking Shang's f242 is a total bill. There's too much he can do from f24 to make it worth it. He has the kick ended. Fireball. Ex fireball. Launch for combo with up skull. And if your character barely gets damage from their up2 it's like why even risk it?
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Under_The_Mayo said:
Flawless blocking Shang's f242 is a total bill. There's too much he can do from f24 to make it worth it. He has the kick ended. Fireball. Ex fireball. Launch for combo with up skull. And if your character barely gets damage from their up2 it's like why even risk it?
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i like the mind game :D

btw, @Check what you mean you can react to throws, i mean kinda sorta, but not really, and does letting go of block in the middle of pressure fora moment really work as a sort of os against throws?
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Under_The_Mayo said:
Flawless blocking Shang's f242 is a total bill. There's too much he can do from f24 to make it worth it. He has the kick ended. Fireball. Ex fireball. Launch for combo with up skull. And if your character barely gets damage from their up2 it's like why even risk it?
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The third hit has such a long startup that I find it pretty easy to flawless on reaction. I just keep blocking and if I see the red sparks come out I know it’s time to flawless.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Under_The_Mayo said:
Flawless blocking Shang's f242 is a total bill. There's too much he can do from f24 to make it worth it. He has the kick ended. Fireball. Ex fireball. Launch for combo with up skull. And if your character barely gets damage from their up2 it's like why even risk it?
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I don't think its too bad. Fire me its reactable on 3rd hit. Even if Shang does F243 if you don't mash U+2 on FB attempt it won't KB and most of shangs plus frames and other moves are negative when flawless blocked like F242 is -4 on Flawless Block so its worth not using the bar because you steal his plus frames. On Ground Skulls the second hit is -21 from -16 when flawless blocked and certain characters can punish it without blowing bars.
 
Under_The_Mayo

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
LawAbidingCitizen said:
I don't think its too bad. Fire me its reactable on 3rd hit. Even if Shang does F243 if you don't mash U+2 on FB attempt it won't KB and most of shangs plus frames and other moves are negative when flawless blocked like F242 is -4 on Flawless Block so its worth not using the bar because you steal his plus frames. On Ground Skulls the second hit is -21 from -16 when flawless blocked and certain characters can punish it without blowing bars.
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I also think the flawless block punish on ground skulls is a bill. Sure, after strings. But he can just do it in footsies whenever he wants. And from there, even dvorah can't close that distance in time to hit him. Should be -30.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I know Bio mentioned this is in a tier video and showed it off to make a case that Kano is bottom. But it's great to see a thread on it. A solution would be making his grab a mid.

With that said, Kuff Bano.
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
The more people who know this the better imo.

If you are beating people because they don't know about it, it'll just make playing against people that do this 10x harder because you've adjusted your strategy to rely on gimmicks too heavily.

This OS isn't actually hard to do at all. I'm 100% positive everyone could get this on their first try in practice mode.

Even though people might have to lab a bit longer to get the perfect flawless block timing, getting the OS timing down to dodge the grab and block the last hit isn't hard at all.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Under_The_Mayo said:
I also think the flawless block punish on ground skulls is a bill. Sure, after strings. But he can just do it in footsies whenever he wants. And from there, even dvorah can't close that distance in time to hit him. Should be -30.
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If u flawless block Ground Skulls(DB1) its -21 if you dash through second hit its -44
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Circus said:
The more people who know this the better imo.

If you are beating people because they don't know about it, it'll just make playing against people that do this 10x harder because you've adjusted your strategy to rely on gimmicks too heavily.

This OS isn't actually hard to do at all. I'm 100% positive everyone could get this on their first try in practice mode.

Even though people might have to lab a bit longer to get the perfect flawless block timing, getting the OS timing down to dodge the grab and block the last hit isn't hard at all.
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Tbh I don't even go for the tick anymore. Either they're scrubs and get hit and I get full combo punished or they're good and I get full combo punished. Praying they don't have the flawless block timing down is just better odds lol
 
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