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General/Other - Kotal Kahn Totem and air grab cancels on block frame data.

Aqueous_Echo

Aqueous_Echo

Noob
Eddy Wang said:
It cannot be neutral crouched either right? Sometimes i take the hit to whiff the throw, but that ain't going to stick forever.

Guess i need to grind this MU a little, otherwise ill be screwed at AGM.
Click to expand...
If u can read it coming man either armor or jump out... backdash MAY work with some characters? But not the ones I play. Can't poke, hit, block, duck, or throw him out of grabbing you. Suuuucks :-P
 
KidVanDal

KidVanDal

Noob
FOREVER EL1TE said:
It might just be my timing, but I can't get an 11 frame normal to stuff an 8 frame reversal
Click to expand...
The reversal should trade with the air throw cancel and be beaten by the totem cancel if the normal is done on the first frame, i think.
It's not an easy task to do it on the actual first frame though, you'd have to do it many times to be sure.

You loose a frame of start up when it's a reversal iirc.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here.

Edit: What normal/reversal did you use?
Could be a hurtbox/hitbox issue too I guess.
 
Last edited:
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Aqueous_Echo said:
If u can read it coming man either armor or jump out... backdash MAY work with some characters? But not the ones I play. Can't poke, hit, block, duck, or throw him out of grabbing you. Suuuucks :-P
Click to expand...
Definitely a timing issue, because i remember of trying to neutral crouch, backdash and armor out, but he kept throwing me, so yeah my timing was really off.

In the tournament he (Vagney) expected me to suck on this MU, so he picked on the grand finals, the second i lost he restarted the match for me, but i switched to Liu flame fist and took him out, he beated me again with War god, i picked hat trick and took him out, since he needed one more win to reset the bracket he picked sun god again.

I was like "Damn it, i have to not let this kotal play if i want to buy my GF a new year dress" so i rushed the set into a more fast paced game trying to not give him as much of a room to try anything and won.

Normally, my type of play is to avoid, block and space everything and then punish it, Kotal ocuppies so much space that is incredibly hard to outspace him with the characters i play, this favors sun god too, consider i block everything before attacking it lets me open to tick throws a lot, so yesterday i just got in there. But he won't get me on surprise again, i will learn how to deal with it until i get the muscle memory of it then in january when we meet again in the winners finals and grand finals for sure, i will beat him again.
 
FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Noob
KidVanDal said:
The reversal should trade with the air throw cancel and be beaten by the totem cancel if the normal is done on the first frame, i think.
It's not an easy task to do it on the actual first frame though, you'd have to do it many times to be sure.

You loose a frame of start up when it's a reversal iirc.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here.

Edit: What normal/reversal did you use?
Could be a hurtbox/hitbox issue too I guess.
Click to expand...
114 totem into b1. B1 is 9 frames and I stuffed reptiles dash (8 frames).. However when I used f1(11 frames I think) I had trouble stuffing it or even trading
 
Aqueous_Echo

Aqueous_Echo

Noob
Eddy Wang said:
Definitely a timing issue, because i remember of trying to neutral crouch, backdash and armor out, but he kept throwing me, so yeah my timing was really off.

In the tournament he (Vagney) expected me to suck on this MU, so he picked on the grand finals, the second i lost he restarted the match for me, but i switched to Liu flame fist and took him out, he beated me again with War god, i picked hat trick and took him out, since he needed one more win to reset the bracket he picked sun god again.

I was like "Damn it, i have to not let this kotal play if i want to buy my GF a new year dress" so i rushed the set into a more fast paced game trying to not give him as much of a room to try anything and won.

Normally, my type of play is to avoid, block and space everything and then punish it, Kotal ocuppies so much space that is incredibly hard to outspace him with the characters i play, this favors sun god too, consider i block everything before attacking it lets me open to tick throws a lot, so yesterday i just got in there. But he won't get me on surprise again, i will learn how to deal with it until i get the muscle memory of it then in january when we meet again in the winners finals and grand finals for sure, i will beat him again.
Click to expand...
Yeah neutral crouch doesn't make it whiff either :-P you played it right, at least to me. Keep him on lock down or space/zone to keep him out as much as you can. Make him play your game.

You can, but shouldn't rely on, the reversing with armor or jumping because it sucks to guess on staggers whether to jump or armor because he can be fairly safe with staggers and do big damage if you guess wrong hehe
 
Mr Aquaman

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Special reversals fuck the frames up, it acts like it reverses the string without taking any of the cancel adv into account. Do 114 totem and set reversal flip kick from cassie, have some fun haha. I believe this is how some special moves can make it out in time when we as the kotal player go what the hell.
 
mkl

mkl

Poopbutt.
114totem is only +2? What is this meme I have been living it where I thought it was as plus or better than airgrab?
 
KidVanDal

KidVanDal

Noob
FOREVER EL1TE said:
114 totem into b1. B1 is 9 frames and I stuffed reptiles dash (8 frames).. However when I used f1(11 frames I think) I had trouble stuffing it or even trading
Click to expand...
You had trouble? But could you do it at all?

As I said the issue here may be that it's really hard to do frame perfect. I mean if you start 1f late you trade with the reversal and if you do it 2f late you get hit.
Don't know if slide goes under f1 but it's 9f and might be easier to trade with or beat.

Since the dash is a reversal it should hit on the 13th frame and the f1 on the 12th when done frame perfect after a totem.

But that's only if the old data is right and the new data is wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know for sure. :)
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
FOREVER EL1TE said:
Totem cancels on block
S1=-8 or higher
S2=-8 or higher
S3=-8 or higher
S4=-1

11=-8 or higher
114=+2
B1=-8 or higher
B12=-8 or higher
B122=-8 or higher
B14=-8 or higher
F1B2=-8 or higher

21=-8 or higher

B3=-8 or higher
F3=-8 or higher
F34=-8 or higher

D1/2/3/4=-8 or higher

Air grab cancels on block
S1=-8 or higher
S2=-8 or higher
S3=-8 or higher
S4=-1

11=-8 or higher
114=+4
B1=-8 or higher
B12=-8 or higher
B122=-8 or higher
B14=-8 or higher
F1B2=-8 or higher

21=-8 or higher

B3=-8 or higher
F3=-8 or higher
F34=-8 or higher

D1/2/3/4=-8 or higher

@Mr Aquaman
@GGA Dizzy If you would like to test and compare the frame data.
@Any other Kotal Player
Click to expand...
i read this as : mileena reversal roll and tremor f1 all day :)
 
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