Toms MU chart for NW

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Raiden 5-5 (it's a chasing game, punish teleport with 122, time out game)
Kabal 4-6 (agree)
Smoke 4-6(only because of resets, without I'd say 5-5)
Kenshi 4.5-5.5 (agree)
Kung Lao 4-6 (I'd say 5-5, if spin is used right I can see it being 4-6).
Jax 4-6 (only because of corner infinate, without it I'd say 5-5)
Freddy 5.5-4.4 (disagree I'd say 4-6, NS destroys most of nw options it's a tough footsie game)
Kitana 5-5 (I used to disagree but now I'd say yes I agree. Reflect is such a good weapon no one knows about)
Mileena 4-6 (agree)
Sonya 3-7 (texted Tom last night. We both said its 4-6 so problem solved)
Cyrax 4-6 (agree, cyrax always has more meter and can breaker if nw happens to catch him)
Reptile 5-5 (agree, again reflect is too good)
Scorpian 5-5 (agree, footsies all day)
Ermac 5.5-4.4 (agree)
Sektor 5-5 (agree)
Cyber 5-5 (might be cybers favor...I'd say 4.5-5.5. Dive kick stuffs shoulder/great mobility, can't parry f3)
Rain 5-5 (agree)
Noob 5-5 (agree)
Cage 4-6 (his rushdown is much better but nw can zone him out I'd say 5-5)
Kang 4-6 (agree)
Shang 5-5 (agree)
Sindel 6-4 (agree)
Kano 5-5 (agree, could be NW favor but only slightly...I'd say 5.5-4.5...again reflect so good)
Skarlet 6-4 (no idea so yea I agree)
Quan 6-4 (I'd say 5.5-4.5 but not enough exp...I'm just giving quan the benefit of the doubt)
Jade 6-4 (agree)
Stryker 6-4 (agree)
Sub zero 4.5-5.5 (I still think its 5-5 but I was wrong about 6-4...I can love with this)
Sheeva 6-4 (agree)
Baraka 6-4 (agree)

Thoughts?

 

[NKZero]

I agreed with ur initial 6-4 against Sub Zero. I don't see how Sub Zero has the advantage. Can't use the ice ball freely. Nightwolf can stay away and punish his D4. Without D4, Sub Zero's offense is gone pretty much. Nightwolf can blow through an ice clone. Perhaps I'm wrong or I'm missing something. Whatcha think L0rdoftheFLY?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I agreed with ur initial 6-4 against Sub Zero. I don't see how Sub Zero has the advantage. Can't use the ice ball freely. Nightwolf can stay away and punish his D4. Without D4, Sub Zero's offense is gone pretty much. Nightwolf can blow through an ice clone. Perhaps I'm wrong or I'm missing something. Whatcha think L0rdoftheFLY?

That's my original thought but it's easier said than done. I'll play Tom at FR or maybe DJT and we can test it.

 

[UsedForGlue]

The Skarlet match...

One of the only tools NW would have against Skarlet would be reflect, but good Skarlet players will not sitting full screen anyway, so even if you had great reactions with Reflect, the daggers will always be from just outside JIP range.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Stryker 6-4 (agree)

What made you change your mind? Last time I heard you on the subject you said it was probably even.

I honestly can't remember the last time a Nightwolf player successfully reflected my gun. Just saying. I just don't get what his advantage is supposed to be.

I mean Reptile, Kung Lao and Mileena for sure they have an advantage over Stryker because of their mobility and because Stryker can't really zone/build meter as much. But Stryker can zone out NW very well and build a ton of meter while doing so.

 

[Z-911-Z]

Yeah, Stryker's gun has to be the hardest thing in the game to reflect since you pretty much have to take a gamble on it. It goes across the screen instantly, can be delayed, and it can be canceled. At least on paper for me it sounds hella hard to do.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

A couple questions...who are the NW you are playing? And are they online? It's all hypothetical. I would agree with 5-5 also but until I fight you offline is there really a way to tell? I think nw has better normals and wins up close easily. Stryker wins from full screen but nw closes that gap quickly. But again this is hypothetical.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

To be perfectly honest I don't know any top level Nightwolf player to play with offline. I've played a few very good ones but mostly online so you're right. It's all hypothetical at this point.

I think nw has better normals and wins up close easily. Stryker wins from full screen but nw closes that gap quickly. But again this is hypothetical.

That's also true for Kitana yet the consensus is that Stryker vs Kitana is around 5-5. Maxter counter-picked Crazy Dominican with Stryker so he must think that matchup is 6-4 or 5.5 Stryker. Why would Kitana be 5-5 but NW 4-6? That's what I don't get. But anyway...

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Your comparing apples and oranges. Her games is typically based around air control and nw is based on ground control. It very different and hard to give you a real answer to that. But I think we can both agree that Stryker is one of the characters that has no real tourney face and has never been played at his highest level. There are so many MU that have never even been seen offline with Stryker. His position is at the mercy the person writing it. Even though your the most knowledgable player with him, you lack the tourney exp and offline exp to have any real say in what MU he wins or loses.

 

[Karnage]

vs Jax - 5-5 its even - dont get in the corner
vs Smoke - 5-5 no way is it advantage smoke
vs Cyrax - i think this is 5-5, i play with mustard and i think nw can win this, just have to be major careful, mustard kicks my arse but he is superb...but i still think nw can win this.
vs sub zero - 5-5 at best - yes he cannot ice ball you, yes you can shoulder through clone and yes you can beat d4, but mixed in with a rushdown/pressure type of game nw is fucked.
vs Shang Tsung - 6-4 only threat is ground fireballs and i think nw has the better normals

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Raiden 5-5 (it's a chasing game, punish teleport with 122, time out game)
Kabal 4-6 (agree)
Smoke 4-6(only because of resets, without I'd say 5-5)
Kenshi 4.5-5.5 (agree)
Kung Lao 4-6 (I'd say 5-5, if spin is used right I can see it being 4-6).
Jax 4-6 (only because of corner infinate, without it I'd say 5-5)
Freddy 5.5-4.4 (disagree I'd say 4-6, NS destroys most of nw options it's a tough footsie game)
Kitana 5-5 (I used to disagree but now I'd say yes I agree. Reflect is such a good weapon no one knows about)
Mileena 4-6 (agree)
Sonya 3-7 (texted Tom last night. We both said its 4-6 so problem solved)
Cyrax 4-6 (agree, cyrax always has more meter and can breaker if nw happens to catch him)
Reptile 5-5 (agree, again reflect is too good)
Scorpian 5-5 (agree, footsies all day)
Ermac 5.5-4.4 (agree)
Sektor 5-5 (agree)
Cyber 5-5 (might be cybers favor...I'd say 4.5-5.5. Dive kick stuffs shoulder/great mobility, can't parry f3)
Rain 5-5 (agree)
Noob 5-5 (agree)
Cage 4-6 (his rushdown is much better but nw can zone him out I'd say 5-5)
Kang 4-6 (agree)
Shang 5-5 (agree)
Sindel 6-4 (agree)
Kano 5-5 (agree, could be NW favor but only slightly...I'd say 5.5-4.5...again reflect so good)
Skarlet 6-4 (no idea so yea I agree)
Quan 6-4 (I'd say 5.5-4.5 but not enough exp...I'm just giving quan the benefit of the doubt)
Jade 6-4 (agree)
Stryker 6-4 (agree)
Sub zero 4.5-5.5 (I still think its 5-5 but I was wrong about 6-4...I can love with this)
Sheeva 6-4 (agree)
Baraka 6-4 (agree)

Thoughts?

mike i think csz has it in his favor

also quan i think is 5-5

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

THTB

My updated tier list.

Kabal 4-6
Smoke 4-6
Kenshi 4.5-5.5
Kung Lao 5-5
Jax 4-6
Freddy 4-6
Kitana 5-5
Mileena 4-6
Sonya 4-6
Cyrax 4-6
Reptile 5-5
Scorpian 5-5
Ermac 6-4
Sektor 5-5
Cyber 4.5-5.5
Rain 5-5
Noob 5-5
Cage 4.5-5.5
Kang 4-6
Shang 5-5
Sindel 6-4
Kano 5.5-4.5
Skarlet 6-4 (no idea so yea I agree)
Quan 6-4
Jade 6-4
Stryker 5.5-4.5
Sub zero 4.5-5.5
Sheeva 6-4
Baraka 6-4

Total 143

 

[Big D]

Lol I feel like Kabal vs Nightwolf is like 9-1 in Kabal's favor...I have such a hard time winning when I fight a good Kabal...

 

[NKZero]

L0rdoftheFLY d'you still have something special planned for the Nightwolf forums? I read in one of the threads that you were gonna post a treat or something haha.

 

[Derptile]

6-4 kano
Nightwolf's favor, that match is terrible for kano .

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Lol I feel like Kabal vs Nightwolf is like 9-1 in Kabal's favor...I have such a hard time winning when I fight a good Kabal...

Yea kabal is tough. But if jax can win the MU then NW can lose 6-4. It's winnable and in fact with reflect used right I think NW might be able to get in easier than jax can.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

L0rdoftheFLY d'you still have something special planned for the Nightwolf forums? I read in one of the threads that you were gonna post a treat or something haha.

Yes I have a big treat coming...it's gonna require patients though.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

6-4 kano
Nightwolf's favor, that match is terrible for kano .

I almost agree but Kano has tools besides knifes and even knifes can be used smartly from close range. Your just not playing the right kanos

 

[Salad Petresky]

After fighting big d and I went home learning the MU I feel like reptile has an advantage. I mean NW reflect is great but it is no way stopping reptile from putting a FB on the field (reptile would get there before you activate reflect), the reptile dash beats out NW charge, and with reptile mobility lightning becomes hard to use. Even at full screen using lightning/arrow is dangerous, theres a chance reptile would go for a dash jump in combo 40%. Idk the exact number, but I think it is in reptile adv. Defiantly not as bad to be 6-4 i think

 

[Derptile]

I almost agree but Kano has tools besides knifes and even knifes can be used smartly from close range. Your just not playing the right kanos

I AM the Kano lol, f3 and reflect are godlike against kano.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

After fighting big d and I went home learning the MU I feel like reptile has an advantage. I mean NW reflect is great but it is no way stopping reptile from putting a FB on the field (reptile would get there before you activate reflect), the reptile dash beats out NW charge, and with reptile mobility lightning becomes hard to use. Even at full screen using lightning/arrow is dangerous, theres a chance reptile would go for a dash jump in combo 40%. Idk the exact number, but I think it is in reptile adv. Defiantly not as bad to be 6-4 i think

I think its 5-5 but I can see your point. Reflect is the best most unexplored move in the game I'm convinced. I'll do more testing.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I AM the Kano lol, f3 and reflect are godlike against kano.

Lol my bad. Then try using knifes at close range where nw can't react. Also stay in close cause at a distance your right...Kano loses. You have to be aggressive.

 

[Wemfs]

6-4 for jade? Is this simply because of her glow?

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

a couple of months ago i would've agreed with the kano matchup being 6-4 for NW, but i definitely think it's 5-5. you can't fullscreen toss knives all day but they're still viable closer as LotF says, and you should be able to ball on reaction to lightning, which shuts down a great tool NW has. reflect is really the only reason that this matchup isn't 6-4 in kano's favor imo.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

6-4 for jade? Is this simply because of her glow?

Her glow doesn't really help her. It gets her through arrows but not lightning and nw doesn't really need or use arrows that much anyway. Besides that I can reflect her projectiles and still out footsie her. The rest is eh boomeragng antics that may work sometimes but don't get you a win.