Strategy - Ferra/Torr Time to start talking tactics and tech

[Eminent]

B1 is 9 frame mid... pretty good. Otherwise you're gonna have to use EXcommand grab for the armor.

 

[Monster Planet]

I've been messing around with the Lackey variant - and I gotta say, I'm definitely impressed.

It stomps, but the overhead is sort of slow and has to be dropped off a jump in. Also, you get zoned and have to make big calls for any damage.

The other issue Lackey has is back dash. Running up for a f2 is easily back dashed, which is part of his game.

 

[Gustavness]

So... What can you tell to someone who really needs FGs 101 in fighting up close with F/T Vicious? With normals being generally long but slow. how do you approach in-your-face situations? I guess we are supposed to use d3 (or d1 for better reach, but it's slow), what do we do next?

So, due to lack of any sort of competition online, i went to a local with a few people and actually got some decent games in. I immediately got smashed with Torr by several characters i had never seen played well at all, but i adapted quickly and started winning some games. entered the tourney, won two games and then lost two games if i remember correctly and hit the lab

I started thinking about this exact same up close problem and here is the conclusion i've drawn. chip damage. chip chip chip. any time an opponent gets in stop thinking combos and go for chip. as soon as i get any sort of gap, i immediately go into the following strings;

B+1,2,1 (or 1, 1) Ferra up close toss, 2, F+4. this does 7-8% chip every time
F+2 Ferra Toss up close, 2+F+4. does 5% every time
F+3, same thing

The added bonus of F+3 is that you can also go into the command grab and various other setups

ending in 2, F+4 is pretty safe except in the corner (-8) but the benefit of this is that it leaves you at the perfect range torr wants to be in where NJP reaches, Ferra is on your back, and its basically a neutral reset. any move hitting at any point during your chip will net you essentially 12% and up and a knockdown

is this all guaranteed? of course not. the first one i listed Bird lao can armored cyclone through the 3rd hit (but not the second, or 1,1 Toss) but other characters cant get in between other areas. but that's the game doing it on the first available frame, human opponents will never be able to guess and do just frame punishes consistently.

I plan on getting casual games in with some good players in the area within the next week and test out some chip dmg setups that i've come up with i have and see how it effects the matchup and their strategy.

 

[DaiHuu]

Vicious/Ruthless OS against wake up EX

Lackey's OS against wake up EX

You have to time the ex you want with you inputting the special move the second Torr's grunt goes off. (Lackey's bf3 is too slow to punish, that's why I decided to use roll instead.)

 

[Nonameformedude]

Vicious/Ruthless OS against wake up EX

Good shit, I had been using d3 to do this like the video Ultra David posted showed. I didn't know other normals had this property(I couldn't get this to work with his d1 or d3), and this adds more range to the OS.


Another OS that makes use of the stuff shown in that video is an OS off of F2. You just basically input F2xxferratoss but don't press the 2 for the special move until just before the move connects. On hit you just get F2(giving you good meterless damag)e, on block you get F2xxferratoss making you safe(plus?). I think this is a pretty strong os for F/T since F2xxferratoss is a block string, and from what I tested after somewhere her mentioned it you can continue the block string with a properly timed b121(only lost to armored interruption from my testing so far, couldn't jump out/ back dash/return to ducking). Establishing that block string lets you further mix up b121(pressure), f2(low you should always OS to resets the situation), b2(safe overhead), and command grab. Of course you can also read your opponent and bait the armored interruption, or use armor yourself to get through certain armored moves. It also helps that in the worse case scenario, where you mess up the OS, you just end up having F2 blocked

 

[Atriox]

Guys, I need help with Lackey. I have no idea what to do in the neutral game and how to open people up. Getting rekt by the weakest and lamest shit. His overhead is so slow and so unsafe, getting uppercutted out of it too damn many times. Should I just go for command grabs more? What's the game here.

 

[Nonameformedude]

and command grab

Realized while playing today command grab after the OS isn't an option because you just threw ferra lol. Also the opponent can use a low poke to low profile the b1 starter(some might have fast enough pokes to beat it out?), but F2xxferratoss, d1 is a block string that's low risk/medium reward(neutral on block, grants mix up on hit).

Sadly I have nothing to say to help out with lackey, haven't given it much time at all

 

[Eminent]

I think this is a pretty strong os for F/T since F2xxferratoss is a block string, and from what I tested after somewhere her mentioned it you can continue the block string with a properly timed b121(only lost to armored interruption from my testing so far, couldn't jump out/ back dash/return to ducking).

f2~close ferra toss, b121 is a true jailing block string if you time it correctly. They can't armor out or anything.

 

[Nonameformedude]

f2~close ferra toss, b121 is a true jailing block string if you time it correctly. They can't armor out or anything.

That's great to know, thanks! I guess that actually opens up staggering the blockstring to toss ferra again.

 

[Eminent]

You only get the perfect frame trap off of f2~ferra toss as far as I know. The move is actually supposed to be -1 on block I think it says in the frame data. But off of f2 ferra actually hits them in the back and somehow that cause them to be stuck in block stun longer. So if you go for ferra toss after b121, be warned it won't be as good.

 

[unicorn]

You only get the perfect frame trap off of f2~ferra toss as far as I know. The move is actually supposed to be -1 on block I think it says in the frame data. But off of f2 ferra actually hits them in the back and somehow that cause them to be stuck in block stun longer.

DB2 have a LOT (llike 20 or so) active frames. Throwin out Ferra from upclose cause her to hit not ASAP (ie 13th frame) but much later (probably around 20th) frame of the animation. That means your "recovery" frames are already running while their "block" frames just started.
Basically it is meaty as we know them from other games.

 

[Audit]

Guys, I need help with Lackey. I have no idea what to do in the neutral game and how to open people up. Getting rekt by the weakest and lamest shit. His overhead is so slow and so unsafe, getting uppercutted out of it too damn many times. Should I just go for command grabs more? What's the game here.

d1 tick throw into command grab scares people into pushing buttons or they run away more. I'm embarrassed to say that I've never looked at the frame gap, but it works sooo often. You should also really be aware of how far cmd grab reaches, as it's insane and people don't realize they're within grab range.

You shouldn't be using B2 in footsies, it should be used to stuff wakeups. Also try and mb command grab grounded wakeups, it's a backbreaker to your opponents wakeup game if you can do this early. If you can establish that you reliably stuff wakeups and get them to be scared to wakeup, you can end your combos in rolls for proximity and start applying more oki pressure.

Also don't forget about bf3 having some projectile invincibility, you can punish a lot of projectiles on reaction with it for a knockdown , but you have to know the spacing (3/4 screen or less) and their recovery frames. The people you can't punish with get the mb armor charge treatment through their projectiles. Both of these options aren't great, but if you can get your opponent to notice you have the ability to eat their projectile and get knockdown it gives them another thing to think about. You can also mix in mb rolls just to give them another option to consider.

If I can get them to be afraid to be next to me because of command grab, and I can get them to be uncomfortable zoning because I can armor/eat projectiles on reaction, their game plan is compromised, and I'm going to win. Making them afraid to zone is usually the hard part, and really I feel like I should be dropping Lackey entirely against zoners.

That's just my my scrubby 2 cents. I actually have a hard time opening people up with this character as well and would welcome any other tips.

 

[Atriox]

d1 tick throw into command grab scares people into pushing buttons or they run away more. I'm embarrassed to say that I've never looked at the frame gap, but it works sooo often. You should also really be aware of how far cmd grab reaches, as it's insane and people don't realize they're within grab range.

You shouldn't be using B2 in footsies, it should be used to stuff wakeups. Also try and mb command grab grounded wakeups, it's a backbreaker to your opponents wakeup game if you can do this early. If you can establish that you reliably stuff wakeups and get them to be scared to wakeup, you can end your combos in rolls for proximity and start applying more oki pressure.

Also don't forget about bf3 having some projectile invincibility, you can punish a lot of projectiles on reaction with it for a knockdown , but you have to know the spacing (3/4 screen or less) and their recovery frames. The people you can't punish with get the mb armor charge treatment through their projectiles. Both of these options aren't great, but if you can get your opponent to notice you have the ability to eat their projectile and get knockdown it gives them another thing to think about. You can also mix in mb rolls just to give them another option to consider.

If I can get them to be afraid to be next to me because of command grab, and I can get them to be uncomfortable zoning because I can armor/eat projectiles on reaction, their game plan is compromised, and I'm going to win. Making them afraid to zone is usually the hard part, and really I feel like I should be dropping Lackey entirely against zoners.

That's just my my scrubby 2 cents. I actually have a hard time opening people up with this character as well and would welcome any other tips.

Thank you sir, I will look into this.

 

[The_stig]

I'm making the transition from GORO to F/T lackey. Any pointers on how to deal with pressure players in the corner?

 

[omegapr1me99]

Messing around in the lab with Vicious, would ending combos in 2B4 be worth it? You sacrifice some damage but Boss toss ender sends you opponent full screen, whilst ending with 2B4 could give you the chance to meaty command grab, 50/50 or even bait a wake up or something.

 

[AceOfKnaves]

Messing around in the lab with Vicious, would ending combos in 2B4 be worth it? You sacrifice some damage but Boss toss ender sends you opponent full screen, whilst ending with 2B4 could give you the chance to meaty command grab, 50/50 or even bait a wake up or something.

It's worth it, and f2 and b2 blow up most non-ex wakeups. ex charge will blow up 1 hit armored wake up.

 

[omegapr1me99]

It's worth it, and f2 and b2 blow up most non-ex wakeups. ex charge will blow up 1 hit armored wake up.

Or you could EX command grab in vicious, but I only tried it against Sub-Zero's EX slide. I'm sure it wouldn't work against Raiden's wake-up Superman

 

[Audit]

Or you could EX command grab in vicious, but I only tried it against Sub-Zero's EX slide. I'm sure it wouldn't work against Raiden's wake-up Superman

The EX cmd grab in vicious grabs Sub out of his slide? Color me surprised, SZ's mb slide beats out Lackey's mb cmd grab. A regular slide loses to a regular cmd grab and mb cmd grab though

 

[Pandamoniumz]

Does anybody have a list of all of F/T's tick throws across the variants?

 

[SepticFir8]

My advice to the tech discussion (Vicious);

1.) NJP has an ungodly amount of reach. Make it an important weapon in your arsenal. Then 4, Boss Toss. Nearly 30% off of 3 moves. It catches people rushing in, ducking, and jumping at you.

2.) The best punish I've found is 1,1, Boss Toss. Can punish Kung Jin's Bo Spin, Sub-Zero's slide, and I'd say just about anything that's punishable. 19% damage.

3.) In Vicious, you can zone with the best of them. Don't be afraid of somebody hiding from you.

Now, I've had mixed results with the command grab. With meter, it does 19% dmg with armor, but otherwise I've had mixed results. If somebody starts jumping, you're very vulnerable.

 

[Gustavness]

I stopped really playing Ferra and start messing around with other characters (good god i love venemous D'vorah) but im inconsistent when i try to play competitively so i've decide to focus on really establishing my Ferra.

Few more things ive noticed recently, and some thoughts. After the F+2 close ferra toss, the frame trap for 2, F+4 whiffs on a lot of characters. I've decided that i think 1,1, 2+4 is better. Safe, also traps, almost the same chip, doesnt whiff on any of the characters and the bonus is that in the corner you can do 30% plus off that lazy launcher.

I really really need to incorporate enhanced command grab into my game. I hardly use it, and its a 20% untechable that you can tick throw into with great range? yeah im gonna start looking into setups for it

today is the first time i realized that D+1 is an amazing anti air. like really amazing. key is do it early, the hitbox is strangely, stupidly good and combos into B+2,3,2+4 into 30% + from almost any position.

Like others have said, you cant really zone F/T in vicious, so thats a huge bonus. I truly enjoy walking people down

So many of his moves are safe.. One move im starting to mess with 4, 2+4. Excellent range, faster recovery from normal ferra moves. downside is she doesnt absorb projectiles on that move, feels like an oversight. It has a large horizontal hitbox, ive thrown it out on wakeup and seen her hit while behind the opponent causing an unusual block stun. nothing from it so far though since while its safe the recovery is too long.

My biggest problem right now is lack of exposure. I need strong players that i can play against other characters to learn matchups. Without that, i'll never be as magnificent as F/T could be

Add me on ps4, tag is Gustavness. I'd like to go to CEO but there's no point if i can't get games in with anyone i'll just get bodied early. Yea online sucks but you can learn things from it

 

[Barrogh]

Today is the first time i realized that D+1 is an amazing anti air. like really amazing. key is do it early, the hitbox is strangely, stupidly good and combos into B+2,3,2+4 into 30% + from almost any position.

Actually, F/T has some long normals that can be useful against jumping beans if spaced/timed correctly. The problem character has is actually emergency AAs. That said, it's not unique to F/T and heck, who knows, maybe d1 is indeed the answer.

 

[Wetdoba]

Does anybody have a list of all of F/T's tick throws across the variants?

Lackey and Ruthless Tick Throws: D1, D3, S1

Vicious Tick Throws: D1, D3, S1 (works on hit too), B1, D4, F3


This is off the top of my head though so I might be missing one

 

[MK Led]

I found something out just now, I'm sure some others know this already, but I haven't seen it written down anywhere:

The EX command grabs in ruthless and lackey (and the wake up EX grab in vicious) allow you to chose the direction Torr throws your opponent. Normally both grabs throw forwards, but you can hold back to throw them in the other direction.

 

[Wetdoba]

I found something out just now, I'm sure some others know this already, but I haven't seen it written down anywhere:

The EX command grabs in ruthless and lackey (and the wake up EX grab in vicious) allow you to chose the direction Torr throws your opponent. Normally both grabs throw forwards, but you can hold back to throw them in the other direction.

Unfortunately it does less damage when you throw them behind you though. Still good either way for when they try to bait a wake up by blocking. Although now that I think about it wake up throw might be better in Lackey since it will do more damage and not waste a bar if you read them blocking on your wake up. No need to EX for armor as you can just do EX torrrrrruken and F2 to put them behind you for more damage if you need to armor through something. In Ruthless though its probably better to use the command grab if you need to armor through a grounded attack. The EX command grab also has 2 hits of armor which I just found out the other day