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Thunder wave vs Raijin?

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FlawlessVictory127

Noob
JBeezYBabY said:
Apparently, picked up Raiden yesterday and been wondering in Raijin WHY IN DA FUCK DOES DB4 AMP NOT COMBO!?!! It gives a pop up, cool bro BUT you can't get a follow up from it? Such a fucking useless move.

But

I remember at Combo Breaker, Kombat, used this variation against Dragon and was pretty effective against his Cetrion. I dont know if he was just unfamiliar with this matchup but things were working until Kombat choked. Can somebody find that footage? It would be a good study point :) I'll see if i can as well.
Click to expand...
Kombat didn't use the Raijin variation, he used Thunder Wave

 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Warrior
I think with have their merit depending on match ups. So that's definitely a plus since most characters are one variation right now.

I have used raijin most but I am not blind to how strong thunderwave is. My best advice at the moment is to default to thunderwave and learn raijin as well.

My reasoning is that his teleport is universally strong in every match up. Also his storm cell is a universal damage increase in all match ups as well.

Raijin takes a lot of getting used to but I have found it excells against strong neutral non mixup characters. So like noob, Johnny, Jacqui etc. Reason why is you will get less value from stormcell in these match ups because most of you damage will come from throw or chip against better players. Also being able to teleport to reset position will still be good but resetting against a strong neutral character means you are back to square one.

Raijin will provide a lot of threat with discharge and provides the most safe chip too. It also alters the game play a lot. I know most people by now here understands how strong discharge is on reversals. If you establish D1 etc is punishable, you need to use these fake frame advantages and play like a maniac. Their best bet is to throw a lot typically so just understand 10 frames is what they have to poke and you can neutral duck.

I think what people are not exploring enough is using it for pressure or neutral as well. Like f4 block into discharge will destroy so many players. Even if they block it's going to set up your next f4 entry with discharge up. Utilize this in several scenarios and you basically have a stagger monster.

What I can't stress enough is to use discharge gratuitously and not hold onto it for the perfect moment. Odds are if you can use it, it is the perfect moment. The buff itself is very hard to prevent.

Hope some of this helps. Sorry hadn't had a lot of raijin time since I have been playing almost the whole cast.
 
Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
JBeezYBabY said:
Apparently, picked up Raiden yesterday and been wondering in Raijin WHY IN DA FUCK DOES DB4 AMP NOT COMBO!?!! It gives a pop up, cool bro BUT you can't get a follow up from it? Such a fucking useless move.

But

I remember at Combo Breaker, Kombat, used this variation against Dragon and was pretty effective against his Cetrion. I dont know if he was just unfamiliar with this matchup but things were working until Kombat choked. Can somebody find that footage? It would be a good study point :) I'll see if i can as well.
Click to expand...
It probably did combo at one point in development but they thought better of it. The normal DB4 is good because it becomes a projectile when quick charge is up. The amp version seems much more niche in its usefulness but you can mix it up with B14(whatever input for the overhead) and B1~DB4 and the DB4 amp version reaches like midscreen, so you may find some use in it as a round ender.
 
S

Spop

Noob
Marinjuana said:
It probably did combo at one point in development but they thought better of it. The normal DB4 is good because it becomes a projectile when quick charge is up. The amp version seems much more niche in its usefulness but you can mix it up with B14(whatever input for the overhead) and B1~DB4 and the DB4 amp version reaches like midscreen, so you may find some use in it as a round ender.
Click to expand...
DB4 amp allows you to combo into the discharge restand in the corner with any touch
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
JBeezYBabY said:
Apparently, picked up Raiden yesterday and been wondering in Raijin WHY IN DA FUCK DOES DB4 AMP NOT COMBO!?!! It gives a pop up, cool bro BUT you can't get a follow up from it? Such a fucking useless move.

But

I remember at Combo Breaker, Kombat, used this variation against Dragon and was pretty effective against his Cetrion. I dont know if he was just unfamiliar with this matchup but things were working until Kombat choked. Can somebody find that footage? It would be a good study point :) I'll see if i can as well.
Click to expand...
Because it used to launch in pre-release builds but they decided to nerf it. We suspect they didn't want to give Raijin a midscreen launcher.
With a loaded Quick Charge it's possible to achieve strong damage in the corner, and combo after db4 amped but it's tight timing.
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
That match between Dragon and Kombat was interesting to watch, though dumb moves like Cets water move with active frames so dumb to still be able to hit you AFTER you do a breakaway, pretty much makes the breakaway moot/irrelevant in cases like that. I noticed he didn't go for the B3,1 string or the overhead string but seems to love the B1, 2 teleport.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
I think I'll stick with trying to learn Raijin. Seems like he has a very harassment style gameplan.
 
Beef Supreme

Beef Supreme

Noob
Raijin's dmg issues come from midscreen combos. In the corner though...

I think Hero Killer Stain completely misused Raijin at CB and tried to use him as a zone heavy character. No, with Raijin even though you don't have teleport you want to always be moving forwarding blocking everything to charge your db3. If you stay back and get in to zone wars you might as well stay in Thunder Wave because spark port would let you TP away if they get to close, and in TW you still have lightning strike which gets replaced in Raijin with Burst. If you think Raijin is a zoning defensive variation I think you're stuck thinking inside the box. You want to always be moving forwarding pushing people to the corner (which Raijin can do VERY well with superman + E burst string enders)
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
Beef Supreme said:
Raijin's dmg issues come from midscreen combos. In the corner though...
Click to expand...
Are those combos notated out in the Combo thread for Raiden? I should probably practice those.


I'm guessing Hero Killer Stain wanted to use Raijin for the DB4 projectile option so that he could get into a projectile trading war where he could force the opponent to block a projectile. He was fantastic at those in Injustice 2 (amazing Cyborg player). He's probably one of my favorite players to watch play, I'm interested to see if he sticks with Raijin or not.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Beef Supreme said:
Raijin's dmg issues come from midscreen combos. In the corner though...

I think Hero Killer Stain completely misused Raijin at CB and tried to use him as a zone heavy character. No, with Raijin even though you don't have teleport you want to always be moving forwarding blocking everything to charge your db3. If you stay back and get in to zone wars you might as well stay in Thunder Wave because spark port would let you TP away if they get to close, and in TW you still have lightning strike which gets replaced in Raijin with Burst. If you think Raijin is a zoning defensive variation I think you're stuck thinking inside the box. You want to always be moving forwarding pushing people to the corner (which Raijin can do VERY well with superman + E burst string enders)
Click to expand...
what you say is generally true, but stain used raijin vs geras and thats a special case. he completely shut down sand trap playing his way while loading discharge. what he lost to was not whiff-punishing well when the geras realized he needs to approach.
 
Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
One thing about Raiden in any of these games is that he gets crazy good corner carry with Superman, which helps to make up for Raijen's lack of midscreen combos
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
Marlow said:
Are those combos notated out in the Combo thread for Raiden? I should probably practice those.


I'm guessing Hero Killer Stain wanted to use Raijin for the DB4 projectile option so that he could get into a projectile trading war where he could force the opponent to block a projectile. He was fantastic at those in Injustice 2 (amazing Cyborg player). He's probably one of my favorite players to watch play, I'm interested to see if he sticks with Raijin or not.
Click to expand...
Assuming I'm remembering the correct match, what bothered me the most was in the zoning war against Geras all he had to do was hop~superman over one of the 6 sand traps or so in a row and get in with Discharge ready.

The only hard zoning Raijin is capable of is to control the top half of the screen with Summoned Lightning, otherwise Raiden isn't winning any fireball wars with anyone outside of landing the first check in the exchange.

Was painful to watch, honestly.
 
Darth-Nero

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Gustavness said:
Raijin raiden is, from my initial impression, one of the strongest characters in the game right now IF you have good execution, and knowledge of other character strings.

Discharge is ridiculous...it is a reversal that can punish anything that is -3 or more, so characters and strings that are safe are not safe against him.

I mean, your opponents cant even d1, whether they cancel into a special or not LOL.

Staggers? He doesnt have to deal with that either. Meter burn it, activate again, and just wait them out. Not like they can chip you down.

Gap in your string? Is it 3 frames? Then nah, you cant use that string anymore.

He literally forces every character to play a completely different game.

Edit: i forgot, dont jump on Raijin. Like, anywhere on the screen lol
Click to expand...
I really like this unpopular opinion. I've always hoped that Rajin is low key his best variation but nobody knows it yet. It'd be so hype if someone brought it up in CEO and destroyed everyone. Yet again, Nobody have better executions than Lil'Majin, He is a huge Raiden nut and he said that Rajin is a very bad variation.
 
jcbowie

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
JBeezYBabY said:
Apparently, picked up Raiden yesterday and been wondering in Raijin WHY IN DA FUCK DOES DB4 AMP NOT COMBO!?!! It gives a pop up, cool bro BUT you can't get a follow up from it? Such a fucking useless move.

But

I remember at Combo Breaker, Kombat, used this variation against Dragon and was pretty effective against his Cetrion. I dont know if he was just unfamiliar with this matchup but things were working until Kombat choked. Can somebody find that footage? It would be a good study point :) I'll see if i can as well.
Click to expand...
Didn't it combo prior to the day 1 patch? Or am I just making that up?
 
ValeDJ

ValeDJ

Noob
I believe so. However I have been db4 mb on trip guard, and it does pop the opponent up for enough time to do a small juggle for 25%
 
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