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Thunder wave vs Raijin?

S

Strike80

Noob
It is no secret that Thunder wave has far better combos than Raijin.
Question is: Does Raijin have anything to compensate for lack of Thunder wave combos?

So far it feels like Raijin is far below Thunder wave.
 
Blakexton

Blakexton

Shinnuk
His charge and discharge is cool. It's a shame that you need to meter burn it to be viable. It's also a shame that it pushes you away. His DB4 is balls. It gives a nice low attack for some mixups, but becomes easily readable after a game or two. Charged up it gives you a projectile, but the recovery on it is just a waste. Meter burn this move for a true waste of meter and time.
DB4 should 100% give an opportunity for a combo once enhanced, but it doesn't.

I like DF2. Creates space and has a good hit box. Good for jump ins too.

I really want to like this variation, but compared to thunder wave you lose so much. Also not being able to teleport really hurts raidens game.

Not to mention how difficult it already is fighting females with raiden too. Half of the time combos will whiff or certain strings will miss.
 
SLy

SLy

Noob
Funny thing is raiden not being able to teleport doesnt hurt his game. Raijin is just poorly setup. His abilities in this just doesnt work cohesively to make him most sufficient. Maybe it needs to be labbed more but knowing that raijin couldve been paired with better abilities turns me off from using it as often as i wouldve liked.

I wouldnt of minded Jo push in competitive. Or even a Cloud and lightning storm ability combo. The raijin we have now just seems randomly put together.
 
S

Strike80

Noob
I had similar feeling. By picking Raijin you give up very important combo tool, teleport and get moves which are on edge of being useless.
 
Reactions: SLy
SLy

SLy

Noob
Yea. Nrs is asking me to trade in combo damage, teleport, and what little safety i already have for a weaker proximity that doesnt combo like storm cell and the low ability that can also not be combo’d into. Both super unsafe.

The charge is the highlight here really. Thats where it gets interesting but we would be sacrificing alot for it.

It seems like more of a defensive raiden which is fine but he has better defensive abilities in his kit that can be put together.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Noob
ive played probably 500 matches with raijin, and hes definitely hard to play, but viable if you do so. giving this character a launcher would catapult him to broken tier imo. right now, fixes that can be thought about are an anti-air hitbox for df2 because right now its useless against jump-ins and way better hit stagger on the db4 projectile ( i think its +1 right now, so with raidens slow startup projectiles you cant even throw another one AFTER A HIT). they could also look into consistent links from b13 and 243 into db2, which dont always work midscreen.
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
From what I've seen myself, Raijin is likely not as good as Thunder Wave, but might show its potential in specific matchups later down the line.
  • The fact that Discharge is 4 frames and halves chip damage already makes it a very, very good move. It seems like the ultimate panic button for any situation, especially considering the amplified version is safe. It is also very easy to get the initial chargeup because the recovery isn't that high (33 frames I believe).
    • Apparrently Discharge can also extend combos (at least in the corner):
  • DF2 I have found no use for outside of the pushback on D4xxDF2
  • DB4 isn't very good from what I know, but there are some neat corner combos to be done with it.
 
F

f24

Don't F*** with a God
DDutchguy said:
You mean the projectile? I think the DF2 projectile is pretty bad personally. Very negative on block and only 6% if it hits. Hitting this move at all has been very hard for me.
Click to expand...
It the the lightning strike was safe on block from midscreen to fullscreen that would be great. Many characters can just block a lightning strike then use a far reaching special (dragon kick, jacui dash punch, etc) to mess your shit up. It’s pretty hard to use in matchups like that.
 
Gustavness

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
Raijin raiden is, from my initial impression, one of the strongest characters in the game right now IF you have good execution, and knowledge of other character strings.

Discharge is ridiculous...it is a reversal that can punish anything that is -3 or more, so characters and strings that are safe are not safe against him.

I mean, your opponents cant even d1, whether they cancel into a special or not LOL.

Staggers? He doesnt have to deal with that either. Meter burn it, activate again, and just wait them out. Not like they can chip you down.

Gap in your string? Is it 3 frames? Then nah, you cant use that string anymore.

He literally forces every character to play a completely different game.

Edit: i forgot, dont jump on Raijin. Like, anywhere on the screen lol
 
Last edited:
haketh

haketh

Noob
Honestly only thing I want for Raijin is a way to spend meter to get Charges & for Low Spark Amp to be a bit more useful without having Charges
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Raiden in general is work to win with, but Rajiin isn't worth the stress honestly. Hopefully it gets a buff, Thunder Wave is much better.
 
F

f24

Don't F*** with a God
Gustavness said:
Raijin raiden is, from my initial impression, one of the strongest characters in the game right now IF you have good execution, and knowledge of other character strings.

Discharge is ridiculous...it is a reversal that can punish anything that is -3 or more, so characters and strings that are safe are not safe against him.

I mean, your opponents cant even d1, whether they cancel into a special or not LOL.

Staggers? He doesnt have to deal with that either. Meter burn it, activate again, and just wait them out. Not like they can chip you down.

Gap in your string? Is it 3 frames? Then nah, you cant use that string anymore.

He literally forces every character to play a completely different game.

Edit: i forgot, dont jump on Raijin. Like, anywhere on the screen lol
Click to expand...
Can you record some matches as Raijin? I wanna try it out next week, I’ve only been playing thunder wave and wanna see what people are doing with a Raijin
 
samiorfali

samiorfali

Raiden Player since the 90s
To the people that are saying Raijen can punish because he has a 4 frame punisher:
1st.. Raijin doesnt do damage on punish.
2nd.. good luck with zoners without your teleport, go punish their projectiles
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Noob
samiorfali said:
To the people that are saying Raijen can punish because he has a 4 frame punisher:
1st.. Raijin doesnt do damage on punish.
2nd.. good luck with zoners without your teleport, go punish their projectiles
Click to expand...
damage on his punish is ok with AMP imo.

matchups like a projectile heavy sonya are extremely tough, you gotta teach them that blocking a projectile feeds your best tool, but its still tough. ive seen f4 low profile and punish projectiles though, any insight on that?
 
Gustavness

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
f24 said:
Can you record some matches as Raijin? I wanna try it out next week, I’ve only been playing thunder wave and wanna see what people are doing with a Raijin
Click to expand...
I dont play this competitively, just a lab monster. I can tell you that this variation is meant to completely alter opponent strategies because discharge simply takes away a lot of tools your opponent thinks they have. Especially since you should always meterburn it (except in the corner), and then just re-apply, and just keep walking. for example

Dvorah wants to meter burn her stabs to stay safe? nah, no mixup there, completely punishable.
Cassie likes doing upkick meterburn to stay safe and create distance? nah punishable
erron black wants to kick you in the chest and meter burn low gunshot to be safe? nah punishable
he wants to use his double overhead into his low or stance mixups? nah, that stance gap is punishable (among others)

When you can OS staggers with discharge or just discharge in between gaps and force them to try and go for single hit confirms because you can punish like the god that he is? this character is the ultimate turtle.

Again, you have to have good knowledge of character strings and patience, but very rewarding. does his low staff (and metered version) suck? sure. zoning game? lol. staff ground pound? eh.

Anti air is amazing, and discharge is probably one of the best moves in the game.
 
JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Apparently, picked up Raiden yesterday and been wondering in Raijin WHY IN DA FUCK DOES DB4 AMP NOT COMBO!?!! It gives a pop up, cool bro BUT you can't get a follow up from it? Such a fucking useless move.

But

I remember at Combo Breaker, Kombat, used this variation against Dragon and was pretty effective against his Cetrion. I dont know if he was just unfamiliar with this matchup but things were working until Kombat choked. Can somebody find that footage? It would be a good study point :) I'll see if i can as well.
 
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