Finally read through this thread. Just my 2 cents, which i've mentioned once before in a previous thread
Cryomancer
f1 - needs 13f start up instead of 15. This string is basically only used off a jump in because it has very little range and is slow to start. In cryo you don't use it as a combo ender because you have f4,2,1+3. In its current state it gets blown up by buffering armour during the block stun of the jump in. Yes you can bait that armour, but to successfully have a jump in blocked you should have some sort of reward instead of having to play another level of the armour mind game. I am fully aware sub-zeros j1 is hard to anti-air, but it is not imposible if you know the spacing on it. The hitbox is entirely vertical so this makes it extremely easy to tripguard. Regardless i'd rather see the hitbox on the j1 nerfed so that f1 is faster (would make people complain less about subzeros j1 as well)
f1,2,2 - needs to be -6 instead of -9. The f1 series is sub-zero's only true stagger string. There is a natural delay in f1,2,2 which lets you play mind games (bait armour, frame trap people, extend block strings etc). But when you finally do complete the string, you are left point blank for an easy jab punish. Yes the last hit is cancellable so you can try to play a mind game by cancelling into ice burst, but the cancel advantage is so low on f1,2,2 that you can press buttons before the ice burst even comes out. So either f1,2,2 needs to be made -6 OR the cancel advantage needs to be increased on ice burst such that you can't press buttons other than armour if you read the ice burst cancel. Also a MINOR gripe, f1,2,2 is a mid that whiffs on some crouching opponents due to breathing, so far i only know scorpion but would be not be surprised if it whiffe on some others. This does not make sense, especially with the last hit since it does have an uppercut motion which should catch crouchers.
Frost Hammer - this move needs to be sped up or made + on block(maybe +4/5). In its current state it is completely useless. There is no reason to use it as a combo ender because it does not connect at higher gravity scalings, is not fast enough to combo off other strings other than b1,2. And if you were to go for meterless damage you would combo into ice ball. Right now it used purely to build meter since it takes 6 blocked ice hammers to build one bar vs 7 blocked ice bursts. The start up should be decreased so it can be made to block string off f4, with that it would be a viable meter build tool while still being able to play a spacing game with f4 hammer. There should not be an armour mind game just to build meter slightly faster. If it is kept at its current speed, there should be some reward for forcing someone to block it as it is easy to armour through given its 36f of start up.
Icy Hammer - this move is fine in its current state. Despite it being slow, its slowness gives us a 'safer' option on armour reads. It generally wins armour vs armour battles (minus multi hit moves). Should be kept in its current state. If any changes are made, maybe the hitbox could be expanded to catch jumpers, otherwise it is perfectly fine.
Ice Burst -
@I GOT HANDS. I disagree that this move is useless in cryo. Sub-zero has 3 armour moves that work for different situations. Mb slide as a fast option to catch people trying to break armour, mb ice burst as a general get off me move and mb hammer as the safe option for when you read armour. Maybe the mb version could pop up slightly higher to make follow ups more consistent when you armour a low poke.
f4,2,1+3 - as nice as it would be to make this plus, i don't think it is required. If anything it should be at best +2/3. It already auto spaces us to bully with d4. Most characters are forced to back dash, jump, armour or block. From there we can make reads. Yeah we don't brain dead get 50/50s like other characters, but cryomancer isnt that type of character. he appears to just be a good footsie with high damage. he does everything decently. the only characters i can think off that really get that advantage of f4,2,1+3 in the games current state is scorpion and kotal. Both these characters have d4s which match us and are faster. But kotal's d4 is punishable on block and scorpion we have better footsie tools than (maybe no ninjitsu).
Just my input on cryomancer.
@I GOT HANDS. Me and you generally have the same view on cryomancer, only thing I disagree with is the uselessness of iceburst. That is still godlike. Even though its -10 and is armourable, its a good move. I have a few option selects with cryo which make this move basically unpunishable, gives us a meter building option and still gives us our damage.
Edit: Maybe 1,1,1 could have higher cancel advantage such than mb hammer connects off of it. Would increase cryo's punish potential.
