This community is hypocritical.

[HeavyNorse]

Dismissing my thoughts because you're going, "It's not the whole community!" shows me you don't know what the hell influence is. If Sonicfox says something people listen. Sir, you're an enabler. How hard is it to see these people I mention aren't no names but people with influence? This isn't Scropionfan69 saying the game is bad, it's a well known player.

You are confusing two seperate things together. That's the issue I have with you. I am fully aware that there are people who have made a name for themselves WITHIN the community and therefore has a certain influence. That's not what I am questioning here.

What you seem to misunderstand is that those people do not speak on behalf of "the community". They speak only on behalf of themselves. They do not represent the community as a whole, only their own individual asses.

I do not condone their hypocrisy and do not wish to be considered part of it. I am still part of the community, but they do not speak for me.

Also, that's not what "enabling" means. If I was being an enabler in this situation, I would endorse these people as spokesmen on behalf of the community. However, I am saying the exact opposite. If anything, you're being the enabler by considering them "the community" as a whole, by giving them more authority than they actually have.

As spidey said:

nrs has proven that they don't always listen to the big names.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Not gonna lie, when I read the thread title, all I can think of is, "In other news, the sky is blue, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West! NOW BACK TO JIM WITH SPORTS!" etc.

It's always been this way, and it won't ever change. People will always feel entitled, people will always complain about something being one way, and then when you give them what they asked for, they'll look you straight in the eyes and say, "Well, yeah, but..." The rest doesn't matter.

Am I happy with this game? No. I'm not. But this is what we have, I believe partly due to the outrage over MKX's rushdown style of play, "There's no neutral, zoning is pointless because they just run in and mix me with 50/50s, rinse and repeat into GGs." And it's also partly due to NRS trying to appeal to casuals. Is what it is, they're a business, they need to sell their product. Many devs are going this route. It's fine.

But now of course now you have some the same folks who wanted a more neutral-based, footsie-oriented game complaining that it's BORING. And it makes me a little queasy inside because I rather enjoyed MKX's fast-paced play. And after the last patch that removed armored launchers and all that stuff, it was a pretty balanced game for all intents and purposes.

But it doesn't matter to me. This is MK, and this is their latest installment, even though the others got their way and don't appreciate it, I will continue to play it because I've always loved MK. Do I wish it would be faster? Yes. Do I dislike the strike/throw meta (a 33/33/33 essentially between strike/f throw/b throw, remember those 50/50s from MKX so many complained about? Yeah of course you can neuch and punish if you have your opponent downloaded and avoid the grab 50/50 entirely, but MKX didn't have a 30% unbreakable penalty for teching incorrectly). Do I wish there was more room for creativity in combos and setups? Yes. But you can either adapt, or bitch. I choose the former.

We weren't even supposed to have this game. I remember TYM freaking out because NRS was breaking their cycle, and then there was radio silence until TGA in December? I think, 2018. WAY later than NRS reveals their next game. I want to say they usually do that in April the year before release.

Just enjoy what you have FFS.

 

[Juggs]

Haha, it's funny that in parallel, I was writing a similar post.

3-4 years ago the complaints were the following:

• -Stop listening too much to players and making kneejerk nerfs/buffs
• -Be more conservative in patches instead of 'tier shifting'
• -(And stop patching the game so often, give metas more time to breathe)
• -Less 50/50s
• -Bring footsies back

And in 2020 the complaints are the following:

• -Listen to players more and patch what they want patched immediately
• -Be less conservative in patches and shift tiers around so that the game is more interesting
• -Patch the game more often, give metas less time
• -Bring 50/50s back
• -Footsie-based gameplay is boring

The message is that people will complain no matter what. And that message means legitimate concerns will not get through when we they arise, because the community is complaining nearly 100% of the time.

People say that they want more communication about what NRS is thinking or might do, but then when NRS communicated around reveal time that they might or might not have custom variations in competitive play, and ultimately decided not to for launch, people blew a gasket for for months as if they'd promised them for tournament.

It's almost laughable, but it's really sad, as we're becoming the community that will, for 4 games straight, kill our own competitive scene if we think the game isn't perfect. Constructive criticism balanced with hype is important, but it seems people have forgotten how to do anything constructively.

We're close to a point of no return.

Are there people actually asking for more 50/50’s? What in the actual...

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Some people loved and some people hated MK9, X, I1, I2, and MK11. I dont like MK11, some love it, love I2, lukewarm on MKX, and mostly positive on I1. MK11 deviates the most from previous games, is it really a shock that the people most dedicated to past NRS games (pros) are bitching the most about the game that strays the most from the old formula? MK11 is fine how it is as its a massive success, me not liking it doesnt change that, people can waste their breath complaining about it, or simping for NRS, its all fine.

 

[623HS]

most of the people i play fgs with hate every nrs games equally or quit and just play them for the meme. ij1 gave us good laugh for how much the devs have no idea what they were doing though so it's my fav and i occasionally play 11 with a guy

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Ehh 1st round ko at the beginning was pretty strong but definitely beatable, offline all her cancels were reactable and her staggers alone were easier to deal with as well. Upgraded is playing a game of her own, that variation is undeniable top 1 and absolutely busted, sure you can lab all her options and they all have ways to deal with, but at the end of the day you are guessing every single time on what shes gonna do, and its not even a 50/50 situation, its more like a 10/10/10....

But Upgraded is super tame and hasn't ran over everyone. That shit is a commitment now since you gotta use a lot of bar. I understood the complaints from before where she did those cancels for free but now the Jacqui needs to pick her spots.

^^This. The NRS community may have a problem with hypocrisy (that's for others to judge), but it's not at all hard to see the rampant sense of self-entitlement.

It's not everyone ofc, but you see the same things over and over: "NRS has to do this thing for us... NRS owes us this and that... how dare NRS not give us this thing we want... " Every patch that doesn't have what they want is a personal snub, and the indignant rage just feeds itself and triggers others, ramping up tempers until everyone starts attacking each other (just like on this board).

I get the frustration, especially when there are some things that honestly should be fixed and the company doesn't communicate well about them. But so much of the self-entitled complaining is completely oblivious to real-world economic and logistical pressures NRS is facing.

• Yes, MK11 has simpler damage routes and execution. I get that many find that boring and too casual-friendly, but NRS cannot make money (and keep producing games) by only appealing to the small group of hardcore gamers that want FGs to be as difficult as possible.
• Yes, balance and mechanics changes have been slow, but it's well-known that NRS devs are terribly overworked, and probably face a lot of corporate pressure to focus on things that make money--especially recently since NRS was (is?) in danger of being sold off. It's not greed, it's just business.
• Yes, we wish they'd communicate more, but how can they realistically make any hard promises these days? The pandemic has no doubt hurt productivity and turned their normal business model upside down. (And let's be honest: more communication would not stop the complaining anyway)

I agree, there are things that should be fixed and things that would be nice to have (wifi filter!). But all our wants take a backseat to reality. We'd all get along better if there was a bit more realism in our discussion.

The same people getting mad at routes in MK11 we're the same calling characters taking half their life in MKX busted. So I think the way they're doing it now in MK11 is smart. We don't need characters deleting big chunks of life. Also a lot of MK game are not super technical to begin with. Like you can learn Stryker BnBs in MK9 within an hour if you want.

The balance and mechanics have been slow because they're letting things rock. The reason they may be sold off because they're a literal cash cow right now, not because they suck at their jobs. It happens when you get big in this bussiness people will use you as a bargaining chip. We see in sports all the time where a team will sell high on a guy to get as many draft picks, prospects, and etc. for them. The Raiders didn't trade Khail Mack because he sucked, they traded him because they knew they could get a good return for him. The only thing we should be worried about as fans is with the guest character situation. Will we have another MK9 PC situation on Steam?

I think they talk to us enough because if they talked more, you'll have a situation that happened with that one guy from Tekken making a commenting about hell sweeps. FG communities can get very toxic and very demanding if you listen to everything. Your time should be spent making sure you meet yoru deadline, not what Scropionfan69 thinks what needs to be buff for Scorpion in patch 2.33.

I'm with you. It's not perfect but they have done a good job with the hand they have been dealt.

no game is perfect but it's clear that mk11 needs help. even with the nerfs scorpion got people still complain way too much about him

That seems like their problem and not NRS' problem. Companies in this bussiness do not live to fix every little thing you don't like about a character if they did the game would be boring. If companies thought like that, a character like Joker in Smash Ultimate would have been ran into the ground. There comes a time you just need to adapt.

Some people loved and some people hated MK9, X, I1, I2, and MK11. I dont like MK11, some love it, love I2, lukewarm on MKX, and mostly positive on I1. MK11 deviates the most from previous games, is it really a shock that the people most dedicated to past NRS games (pros) are bitching the most about the game that strays the most from the old formula? MK11 is fine how it is as its a massive success, me not liking it doesnt change that, people can waste their breath complaining about it, or simping for NRS, its all fine.

Do you support a remaster of MK9?

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Not gonna lie, when I read the thread title, all I can think of is, "In other news, the sky is blue, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West! NOW BACK TO JIM WITH SPORTS!" etc.

It's always been this way, and it won't ever change. People will always feel entitled, people will always complain about something being one way, and then when you give them what they asked for, they'll look you straight in the eyes and say, "Well, yeah, but..." The rest doesn't matter.

Am I happy with this game? No. I'm not. But this is what we have, I believe partly due to the outrage over MKX's rushdown style of play, "There's no neutral, zoning is pointless because they just run in and mix me with 50/50s, rinse and repeat into GGs." And it's also partly due to NRS trying to appeal to casuals. Is what it is, they're a business, they need to sell their product. Many devs are going this route. It's fine.

But now of course now you have some the same folks who wanted a more neutral-based, footsie-oriented game complaining that it's BORING. And it makes me a little queasy inside because I rather enjoyed MKX's fast-paced play. And after the last patch that removed armored launchers and all that stuff, it was a pretty balanced game for all intents and purposes.

But it doesn't matter to me. This is MK, and this is their latest installment, even though the others got their way and don't appreciate it, I will continue to play it because I've always loved MK. Do I wish it would be faster? Yes. Do I dislike the strike/throw meta (a 33/33/33 essentially between strike/f throw/b throw, remember those 50/50s from MKX so many complained about? Yeah of course you can neuch and punish if you have your opponent downloaded and avoid the grab 50/50 entirely, but MKX didn't have a 30% unbreakable penalty for teching incorrectly). Do I wish there was more room for creativity in combos and setups? Yes. But you can either adapt, or bitch. I choose the former.

We weren't even supposed to have this game. I remember TYM freaking out because NRS was breaking their cycle, and then there was radio silence until TGA in December? I think, 2018. WAY later than NRS reveals their next game. I want to say they usually do that in April the year before release.

Just enjoy what you have FFS.

I just want to take this time to say this was a brilliant post sir. Bravo to you! Mk games, outside of 9 and inj 1, are more balance than peopel give them credit for. NRS games have said, "Let's give everyone something strong." approach to their design. I like this because you can feel happy with whoever you play. We learn in an era of just wanting to be happy now. That is why anime fans drop shows like crazy if they don't get that big pop they're looking for.

Back to MK11, it took a bit with Jax but I like him in this game as I figured out he just isn't a combo character and if I want combos I'll paly his daughter. I really like how much of a thinker game MK11 is. It really jumps out to me even more after experiencing the SF5 trial edition. I think when you take combos away, you tell the playerbase to outsmart the opponent than trying to land a 20 hit combo.

You are confusing two seperate things together. That's the issue I have with you. I am fully aware that there are people who have made a name for themselves WITHIN the community and therefore has a certain influence. That's not what I am questioning here.

What you seem to misunderstand is that those people do not speak on behalf of "the community". They speak only on behalf of themselves. They do not represent the community as a whole, only their own individual asses.

I do not condone their hypocrisy and do not wish to be considered part of it. I am still part of the community, but they do not speak for me.

Also, that's not what "enabling" means. If I was being an enabler in this situation, I would endorse these people as spokesmen on behalf of the community. However, I am saying the exact opposite. If anything, you're being the enabler by considering them "the community" as a whole, by giving them more authority than they actually have.

As spidey said:

Spidey sucks I think I get you now. Mt bad for calling you an enabler. Now those guys speaking themselves can have an opinion but usually the information they provide is false. You want an opinion but forgot Upgraded Jacqui was nerf and is more of commitment? You want an opinion but say jumping is too safe when literally all jump ins are negative on block besides deep oens which are Anti-abler on reaction? You want an opinion don't realize that patching the game less allows you as the community and develop to take of big issues in the game that effect everyone and not things that effect just you? I'm all for opinions but if you guys wish to speak for yourself you need to be inform. You can't get things wrong and demand a spot at the table. You'll be that guy who wants to sit around in the group and do nothing hoping to get an A on the group project. Opinions are cool, but you need to make sure you have done your homework before opening your mouth.

 

[spidey300]

That seems like their problem and not NRS' problem. Companies in this bussiness do not live to fix every little thing you don't like about a character if they did the game would be boring. If companies thought like that, a character like Joker in Smash Ultimate would have been ran into the ground. There comes a time you just need to adapt.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. beyond mid teleport being taken away; I don't care what people have to say about scorpion and I myself have no problem with scorpion. i wanted a couple things here and there but i'm fine with not getting them. what i and others want is deeper than that being it's part of the core game

 

[HeavyNorse]

Opinions are cool, but you need to make sure you have done your homework before opening your mouth.

This I agree with.
This also applies to yourself though, with those assumptions of yours.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

This I agree with.
This also applies to yourself though, with those assumptions of yours.

Hell yeah! I'm not a saint. I usually just stick to getting better and trying to share tech and help people with the game instead of going on 10 page rage on why I think FB needs a damage nerf.

 

[HeavyNorse]

Hell yeah! I'm not a saint. I usually just stick to getting better and trying to share tech and help people with the game instead of going on 10 page rage on why I think FB needs a damage nerf.

Or whatever this thread is.

 

[John Grizzly]

I do agree that many people are hypocritical when it comes to NRS games, but there are many like me who loved every previous title and still enjoy playing them and watching them on stream to this day. I never had any major complaints for any of the other games NRS has developed. They all had their own flaws....but the difference to me was that they were all super fun to play. MK9 is easily the most broken of the 5, but it's undeniably the most fun to play, in my opinion.

I believe a lot of the fun was removed from MK11 and I'm just hoping NRS considers adding some of that back in some way, shape or form.

 

[trufenix]

I guess these pro player don't deserves it like sonicfox and ninjakilla.

I feel like you're making a huge leap in logic there, pal.

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

But Upgraded is super tame and hasn't ran over everyone. That shit is a commitment now since you gotta use a lot of bar. I understood the complaints from before where she did those cancels for free but now the Jacqui needs to pick her spots.

What bar? She’s the exact same pre patch, the only thing they changed was making far leaps to cost a bar of meter, all her leap pressure is still the same and she still is making you guess out of 4727363 options for free.

 

[Kindred]

Sorry to say but if there is one constant in this community is that people bitch (tbf that's true everywhere lol).

People bitch because they don't like to adapt. They have a preconceived notion as to how a fighting game should be played. You hear the dumbest fucking complaints. ''Ohh Wake up system too many options'' like yea they have a lot of options but you have to factor in how the opponent plays, what is the most likely option they will go for in a given situation. All 9 options do not have the same probability of happening. People want a solution that works 100% of the time but if there's one thing that reigns supreme in this game and many others is uncertainty. You cannot be 100% certain of the opponent's behavior so you have to read what is the most likely scenario. If it works, great, if it doesnt, move on to the next.

Some people just refuse to adapt and instead rather QQ

 

[CY MasterHavik]

What bar? She’s the exact same pre patch, the only thing they changed was making far leaps to cost a bar of meter, all her leap pressure is still the same and she still is making you guess out of 4727363 options for free.

That super leap helps her to get in and it seems d1 is your answer for Upgraded. It's strong but Gears is the king of annoying. His stuff was much worse in my opinion.

Or whatever this thread is.

I can give you a Harry Potter on FB need a nerf and making Jax's ground pound launch so he can have some combos.

Sorry to say but if there is one constant in this community is that people bitch (tbf that's true everywhere lol).

People bitch because they don't like to adapt. They have a preconceived notion as to how a fighting game should be played. You hear the dumbest fucking complaints. ''Ohh Wake up system too many options'' like yea they have a lot of options but you have to factor in how the opponent plays, what is the most likely option they will go for in a given situation. All 9 options do not have the same probability of happening. People want a solution that works 100% of the time but if there's one thing that reigns supreme in this game and many others is uncertainty. You cannot be 100% certain of the opponent's behavior so you have to read what is the most likely scenario. If it works, great, if it doesnt, move on to the next.

Some people just refuse to adapt and instead rather QQ

I remember when people were pissed when wake ups were limited.

 

[Tony at Home]

The community tends to have a memory span of 1 game (I remember having to install MKX again just to remind people that pokes have never been throw immune) and largely doesn't play non-NRS fighting games. So there's often very little valuable perspective posted here.

Complaints about "patching too much" in previous games vs the current state of complaining that a bug fix patch doesn't redesign Jacqui Briggs is probably the most abrupt example of this I've seen.

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

That super leap helps her to get in and it seems d1 is your answer for Upgraded. It's strong but Gears is the king of annoying. His stuff was much worse in my opinion.

She doesn’t even need to use that far leap most of the times to get in, all she needs are a couple of dashes in and b22 into safe dash punch or b22 into leap pressure and shes already on your face.
Idk about Geras being ‘much worse’ but i agree that he was absolutely busted at launch and he got hit by the nerf hammer 3 patches in a row. Upgraded is still the same dumb shit since v3 patch dropped and nothing changed

 

[Jowabunga]

Ultimately the people bitching and complaining are NOT the ones you need to be worried about, because those people still care enough to bitch. The ones you should be concerned about are the ones like me that have mostly moved on to do other things that don't include playing NRS fighting games.

 

[Protagonist_1]

I laugh at the people that cry about Jacquie and yet friggin Hellboy could not only leap 3 football fields across the screen, but could also cancel leap in mid air, in a game with CROSSUPS, and had a god damn magnum to add to this.

Not saying that shit is fair, but y'all seriously need to play other games. Play what you makes you happy. And instead of just whining, build your scene, make content to improve. So much wasted energy.

Been rocking this Cyborg Avatar since INJ2, and I'm still going to be rocking it. Don't care about the constant NRS cycle, what top players say, because at the end of the day I play what I like. I love my scene, but fuck their opinions.

And if anyone want games in INJ 2, hit me up or join vBloodCryv's discord. We still grind to get better, that's all that matters. Going to be making more content for TYM since I love this website too much to see it overrun with drama threads like this every two seconds.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I laugh at the people that cry about Jacquie and yet friggin Hellboy could not only leap 3 football fields across the screen, but could also cancel leap in mid air, in a game with CROSSUPS, and had a god damn magnum to add to this.

Not saying that shit is fair, but y'all seriously need to play other games. Play what you makes you happy. And instead of just whining, build your scene, make content to improve. So much wasted energy.

Been rocking this Cyborg Avatar since INJ2, and I'm still going to be rocking it. Don't care about the constant NRS cycle, what top players say, because at the end of the day I play what I like. I love my scene, but fuck their opinions.

And if anyone want games in INJ 2, hit me up or join vBloodCryv's discord. We still grind to get better, that's all that matters. Going to be making more content for TYM since I love this website too much to see it overrun with drama threads like this every two seconds.

Honestly.. I've been hanging with my friends in the community online the last couple weeks.. Started hanging in Slayer's chat and a bunch of people I've always liked are there every day.

In the past two weeks alone there have been so many crazy sets.. Everybody challenging people, doing money matches, having a good time. The hype has been contagious, and the last few days there have been a bunch of great FT5/FT10s ft. Ninja, Sonic, Foxy, Rewind, Avirk, Jueks, etc., with 3-500 people on Slayer's stream, and up to 1500 people on Ninja's stream.

So I think at this point, it's worth just ignoring the people who only want to sow negativity. Anybody who doesn't appreciate high level play anyway, and just wants to complain, isn't worth the time of all the people who are enjoying the community spirit.

We'll either get a patch or not -- but in the meantime, there's a ton of fun to be had. Anybody who isn't on board can go ahead and get left behind.