Strategy THE WIZARDS WARRIORS: Shazam Mains Unite/Strat discussion

[Shawi]

Edit: Well, well, well. AT, HM and AC all have invincibility frames when used as a wakeup. Why isn't this common knowledge?

AC invincibility seems really short. AT is medium and HM appears to be invincible for pretty much the whole move. Tested with lex's j3, j2, bf2, low jab. Confirmation from someone else would be awesome.

Are you serious?! This can't be right! AT ALWAYS gets stuffed - I play against my bro's wonder woman and her b23 and 33 stuff it.

Edit 2 because that's what I do - Even teleport seems to have wakeup invincibility. Unfortunately the invincibility seems to wear off before he goes into the move's regular invincibility, so there is a small window to be stuffed out of it.

With both teleports having a MASSIVE startup of 25 frames, even with it having the "full" 12 frames of invincibility, it still leaves 13 frames which is ginormous!

Hadn't really thought about AC and HM as wakeups as they are grabs but ill have a look

 

[Throwback]

Used to use Teleport on wakeup, but then players I fought started to use legit wakeup meaty (not all).
Tried AT and its a NO.
do not use AC, haven't tried.

now HM, Very useful to catch melee characters (not jump set up) or just to get away with a meaty projectile chip.

and others might have been already doing this, but on reaction/ opponent jump "floaty". Forward Teleport is very useful, you recover before they get down = punish; d3(best because of range and startup), HM(duh?), etc.
and if guessed wrong you can still catch them (doing strings or holding back) offguard. its a risk but I mean its shazam.

I tested AT as an AI reversal in training mode. I'm pretty sure it does have some invincibility. It would be great if other people would also test using the training mode - what you think you are seeing in matches is not always correct.

Teleport has some startup invincibility (I think) and as posted above, some frames of vulnerability. It'll still get you away from true meaties.

If people are delaying attacks in order to hit your post-invincible frames, you need to switch to something else (backdash, F3 mb).

 

[Throwback]

Are you serious?! This can't be right! AT ALWAYS gets stuffed - I play against my bro's wonder woman and her b23 and 33 stuff it.



With both teleports having a MASSIVE startup of 25 frames, even with it having the "full" 12 frames of invincibility, it still leaves 13 frames which is ginormous!

Hadn't really thought about AC and HM as wakeups as they are grabs but ill have a look

Go to training mode with shazam & WW & set shazam to wakeup with AT, then see if you can stuff it with a perfectly timed normal. Let us know what you find!

Check out HM and AC as well, interested to see if others get the same results as me.

 

[GGA Fill Pops]

Pretty sure HM comes out considerably faster than lobo's command grab, making shazam a much better punisher.

Also shazam has the equivalent of a high/low mixup at b2 range whereas against Lobo all you need to do is duck.

Pretty sure you cant duck lobos toss

 

[pogse]

I tested AT as an AI reversal in training mode. I'm pretty sure it does have some invincibility. It would be great if other people would also test using the training mode - what you think you are seeing in matches is not always correct.

Teleport has some startup invincibility (I think) and as posted above, some frames of vulnerability. It'll still get you away from true meaties.

If people are delaying attacks in order to hit your post-invincible frames, you need to switch to something else (backdash, F3 mb).

You like making assumptions.

Let me clear what I said;
I know most of his moves has invincibility frames (I haven't used AC on wake up yet), I just said that I started not to use Teleport and AT (often).
I wasn't saying what you said wasn't true (I went straight to how I use them on my post).

My basis is tested from matches (usually long sets) and training mode.

Probability of HM being very viable on wakeup? try it against a doomsday (they ham).

 

[Throwback]

You like making assumptions.

Let me clear what I said;
I know most of his moves has invincibility frames (I haven't used AC on wake up yet), I just said that I started not to use Teleport and AT (often).
I wasn't saying what you said wasn't true (I went straight to how I use them on my post).

My basis is tested from matches (usually long sets) and training mode.

Probability of HM being very viable on wakeup? try it against a doomsday (they ham).

Everyone makes assumptions. imo it's your job as the communicator to ensure the listener makes as few as possible and makes the right ones as often as possible.

In this case, I think you used the word 'meaty' incorrectly and also strongly implied that AT does not have invincibility.

I'm just glad that Shazam's wakeup isn't free like I previously thought.

 

[pogse]

Everyone makes assumptions, imo it's your job as the communicator to make sure the listener makes as few as possible and makes the right ones as often as possible. In this case, I think you were using the word 'meaty' incorrectly.

I'm just glad that Shazam's wakeup isn't free like I previously thought.

Yes sir!

Ok. I admit, I read my post again.
But I'm pretty what "meaty" is.

Shazams wake up options vary, depending on opponents offensive playstyle.
so what I said is not entirely useful or accurate generally.

BTW does anyone here have any tips against a Sinestro?
I don't mind DS, cause honestly they need to buff his option a bit when opponent is up close.
But this Sinestro guy has weird normals and pushes you back, I've had like 2 matches against Sinestro.

 

[Shawi]

Go to training mode with shazam & WW & set shazam to wakeup with AT, then see if you can stuff it with a perfectly timed normal. Let us know what you find!

Check out HM and AC as well, interested to see if others get the same results as me.

Right so, WW 33 knocks him out of it every time. Depending on how you time it, either both or just the second 3 hits. b23 requires more strict timing.

I have also noticed that the duration of a dash after a knockdown allows for a perfect stuffing of the wake ups. So if you knock shazam down and immediately dash and do a basic normal, it stuffs AT and teleport every time.

In terms of HM, I am pleasantly surprised! I think it is fully invincible - yet to interrupt it with anything.

 

[Shawi]

Yes sir!
BTW does anyone here have any tips against a Sinestro?
I don't mind DS, cause honestly they need to buff his option a bit when opponent is up close.
But this Sinestro guy has weird normals and pushes you back, I've had like 2 matches against Sinestro.

Hahaha! I played this matchup yesterday and my god it was difficult. From full screen, a combination of the rocks fireballs and shackles is like a minefield. If you're good, you can tele past the fireballs but then if the opponent ex's it, you're screwed. Also don't jump, the rock and ex fireball will catch you. I found the best way to get in was 100% through using AT on reaction to Sinestro using the rocks.

 

[Throwback]

Anyone else noticed how ridiculous the range on AC is?

I've been trouble breaking crouchers outside d1 range, but inside the start range of b2. Turns out AC's range is so big that it reaches well beyond d1 range and overlaps with b2. The distance that Shazam can combo you from is just insane!

 

[GAMETIME]

does the ground cross up sometimes mess up for some people? im doing it correctly and in training mode i'll do it everytime but when i play online shazam wont jump over the opponent instead he'll jus dash forward, i've done it online before so its not online or nothing like that i think its something im doing wrong

 

[Throwback]

Argh well I just discovered something bad. Shazam has a blind spot between his closest b2 range and his furthest AC range. It's a small gap but it's a pretty dumb 'feature'. Learn to d3 at that range I guess.