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The Outcry of Fatal Blows

Nephrite

d1 masher
Using x-rays meant sacrificing enhanced special moves and combo breakers for a while, so you were ''paying a price'' for using them. Plus you had to earn them in the first place by building/saving meter. FBs come for free and feel like a cheap way to help the losing player even the match or even steal the win.
 

Error404

Noob
Free armoured supers are some dumb party game shit. I really hate the fake hype from commentators on it too. Like bro , stop trying to sell me this dumb game. I saw that string into launcher into free super for 50% that stole the round. No amount of yelling will convince that this had anything to do with skill .
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I mean, in MK9, X-rays were safe across the board, had instant armor, can be used more than once, did great damage and some of them even started combos. I don’t remember any crying then

MKX, I believe there were some xrays that were unsafe, but those also had pushback, instant armor, can be used more than once, great damage and some lead to combos. I believe there was an X-ray that was plus on block in that game as well. No crying there.
I agree with your message about fatal blows, but your premise is invalid.

X-Rays in Mortal Kombat 9 were seldom used... unless you fought against the bosses whose X-Rays did 50% of damage. LOL. I honestly cannot even remember what Freddy's X-Ray looked like. People also tend to forget that meter building was rigorous in Mortal Kombat 9 unlike in the modern NRS fighting games. X-Rays in Mortal Kombat X were used a little bit more often, but you generally saved your three bars for EX moves which offered significantly more reward in both games.

With all that said, people have of course been overreacting. Comeback mechanics are the norm, not the exception, in contemporary fighting games. Street Fighter V has V-Triggers that you primarily gain by taking damage while Tekken 7 has rage arts and rage drives that you gain when your life bar depletes. All mechanics, fatal blows, V-Triggers, and rage arts and rage drives, are "guaranteed" in the sense that they are not linked to any particular resource. You have to deal with them at the end of rounds whether you like them or not.
 
it's resourceless
Yes, in that it doesn't use meter, but it is a resource of it's own. It becomes available at a particular point and once it's gone, it's gone.

All they've done is instead of "do i use meter for xray or breaker or enhance?", it's just a straight up "do i use it?", and in most cases the answer is yes.

If people are using it as a crutch to take out the first round, they have to be pretty damn sure that they can take out the final round without it. If not, then why use it when there's still 2 more rounds to come. It might be braindead to use, but it does create a mind game for the player and opponent.

Despite all the outcry about it, NRS accomplished exactly what they wanted, which is to make people use it. Probably in part because, as was described above, people didn't or rarely used xrays in previous games because a breaker or enhanced special was a better option for meter use.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
people are hilarious...

They keep comparing MK11 to other MK games or fighters despite the fact that it's a separate game. It's like people want to recapture the old because they dont want to change. MK11 is it's own game, saying "X-ray in MK9 and MKX were so much better" will only get you angry and stop you from adapting to a new game.

Fatal blows are fine, but not perfect sure. But ultimately, the fact that you all of a sudden have to alter your approach strategy when they are in play get people annoyed. And yea, sometimes someone steals a round or a game with it but you can either focus on that moment and feel like shit, or look at the bigger picture which is that if you are overall better, them stealing a round here and there is inevitable, but doesnt change the fact that you would beat them 8 times out of 10.

And if you are losing consistently to Fatal blows, then you're the issue.
 
i know a lot of people here probably don't play much else in regards to fighting games besides nrs games but that is a complete undersell of what the fatal blow is in relation to previous nrs games. even with how it was implemented in terms of resources; the practicality of them is just like a free save me card. nrs finally made something more in line with current fighting games but it's much more user friendly compared to those other fighting games. not even tekken rage arts just save you for free like this.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
I have a problem with kiddie level KB's that alter the match far more than FB's. FB just needs to have a 1 use per round thing added and it's fine.

But Sub's slide KB, liu's bicycle KB, and other basic basic basic KB's are essentially free 1 touch 31% damage on the final round every time you play the character. EVERY TIME. You play the character knowing no matter how good you are or how bad your opponent is, you're going to get hit by that 31% EVERY TIME. You can dodge a FB far more often than a free gimmick KB that lots of characters have imo.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

MY SHAPE IS MY SHAPE
Premium Supporter
I have a problem with kiddie level KB's that alter the match far more than FB's. FB just needs to have a 1 use per round thing added and it's fine.

But Sub's slide KB, liu's bicycle KB, and other basic basic basic KB's are essentially free 1 touch 31% damage on the final round every time you play the character. EVERY TIME. You play the character knowing no matter how good you are or how bad your opponent is, you're going to get hit by that 31% EVERY TIME. You can dodge a FB far more often than a free gimmick KB that lots of characters have imo.
^^^^^ This. The amount of minimal effort that goes into getting maximum damage in most MK11 cases is absurd.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Forgot to add... all gripes about FB mechanics notwithstanding, I suspect at least half the complaining about FBs would simmer down if only the cinematics were shorter. I mean, they're not long as is, but just long enough to really interrupt the flow of a game. No doubt that increases people's annoyance with them.

But Sub's slide KB, liu's bicycle KB, and other basic basic basic KB's are essentially free 1 touch 31% damage on the final round every time you play the character. EVERY TIME. You play the character knowing no matter how good you are or how bad your opponent is, you're going to get hit by that 31% EVERY TIME.
Yeah, I agree with this. For me, it's not so much that some KBs are super basic (tho they are), but it's that some toons get huge KBs just for following the basic gameplan they would have followed anyway, while other toons have to take stupid risks to get KBs that often aren't worth it.

Sub... Liu... they do have to open you up a few times and spend their resources to build the KB. Ok fine, but they would have done that anyway. Why do they get a gigantic reward just for playing normally and landing a few strings?

Compare to, say, Raiden, who somehow has to trick you into standing still and eating two slower-than-mud overheads back to back, or letting him connect a crazy unsafe electric fly from near full screen.

Yeah the insane disparity in KB requirements is way worse than FBs imo.
 

Afk Skinny

rabbit ears up rabbit paws in rabbit troop forever
Fatal blows do feel too long for my taste. If I'm in a really impatient mood and the ai hits me with a FB I just use a skip token lol
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

MY SHAPE IS MY SHAPE
Premium Supporter
Forgot to add... all gripes about FB mechanics notwithstanding, I suspect at least half the complaining about FBs would simmer down if only the cinematics were shorter. I mean, they're not long as is, but just long enough to really interrupt the flow of a game. No doubt that increases people's annoyance with them.


Yeah, I agree with this. For me, it's not so much that some KBs are super basic (tho they are), but it's that some toons get huge KBs just for following the basic gameplan they would have followed anyway, while other toons have to take stupid risks to get KBs that often aren't worth it.

Sub... Liu... they do have to open you up a few times and spend their resources to build the KB. Ok fine, but they would have done that anyway. Why do they get a gigantic reward just for playing normally and landing a few strings?

Compare to, say, Raiden, who somehow has to trick you into standing still and eating two slower-than-mud overheads back to back, or letting him connect a crazy unsafe electric fly from near full screen.

Yeah the insane disparity in KB requirements is way worse than FBs imo.
Fully agreed.
I will forever be confused by why my main (Noob) has a KB that requires 10 Shadow Specials to connect, and yet NONE of the specials in Pitch Black, his most Shadow-heavy variation, count toward that number. Only Tackle and Slide. So outside of Seeing Double, it's not even worth trying for.

Fuck the half-finished Variation system. Forever.
 

Gaxkang

Noob
I have a problem with kiddie level KB's that alter the match far more than FB's. FB just needs to have a 1 use per round thing added and it's fine.

But Sub's slide KB, liu's bicycle KB, and other basic basic basic KB's are essentially free 1 touch 31% damage on the final round every time you play the character. EVERY TIME. You play the character knowing no matter how good you are or how bad your opponent is, you're going to get hit by that 31% EVERY TIME. You can dodge a FB far more often than a free gimmick KB that lots of characters have imo.
Yah I laugh at like the Sub Zero slide KB...like why doesn't say Kano get fat damage from hitting amplified kano ball 3 times, etc.?

It's not earned damage in any way...
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Fully agreed.
I will forever be confused by why my main (Noob) has a KB that requires 10 Shadow Specials to connect, and yet NONE of the specials in Pitch Black, his most Shadow-heavy variation, count toward that number. Only Tackle and Slide. So outside of Seeing Double, it's not even worth trying for.

Fuck the half-finished Variation system. Forever.
Yeah I remember when I first picked up Noob, I was drawn to dark sabbath because of the combo potential, damage, and the +5 restand ender. I quickly changed to seeing double once I found out that slide amp counted as 2 shadow specials. Game changer in the corner where you can get 4 in one combo. I find the variation more boring to play, but that's pretty much your only chance of ever getting that shadow KB damage when you need it. It's unfortunate.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

MY SHAPE IS MY SHAPE
Premium Supporter
Yeah I remember when I first picked up Noob, I was drawn to dark sabbath because of the combo potential, damage, and the +5 restand ender. I quickly changed to seeing double once I found out that slide amp counted as 2 shadow specials. Game changer in the corner where you can get 4 in one combo. I find the variation more boring to play, but that's pretty much your only chance of ever getting that shadow KB damage when you need it. It's unfortunate.
Makes absolutely no sense design-wise. And that's before you remember that there originally WAS no Amp Slide, and Seeing Double was basically unviable in the beginning.
He is the perfect example of a character that would flourish in a Custom competitive world. And his Fatal Blow is death on block and not at all insane, so he wouldn't even make a dent in the "should Fatal Blows be nerfed" debate.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

MY SHAPE IS MY SHAPE
Premium Supporter
I didn't even know that dark period existed. So wtf did he even have? a -20 low and a tele you couldn't combo from? They gave him a 40 frame ghost ball though :D
Yep. That was precisely it until whichever patch it was last summer he got buffed in.
In a perfect world, Slide, Clone, and regular Spirit Ball would be his three universal moves, but that's another digression for another thread.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Yah I laugh at like the Sub Zero slide KB...like why doesn't say Kano get fat damage from hitting amplified kano ball 3 times, etc.?

It's not earned damage in any way...
It carries the fuck out of so many players and is why so many people bitch that MK11 is scrub friendly.

Kollector: Hold your charged mace for 3 entire seconds and hope you don't get punished and you get rewarded with 22%.
Sub zero: Play the way you would day 1 sub zero and get your 31% no matter what

The highest lvl mk11 player can easily get hit by 3 sub zero yolo slides.
 

Hot_DNA

Noob
It carries the fuck out of so many players and is why so many people bitch that MK11 is scrub friendly.

Kollector: Hold your charged mace for 3 entire seconds and hope you don't get punished and you get rewarded with 22%.
Sub zero: Play the way you would day 1 sub zero and get your 31% no matter what

The highest lvl mk11 player can easily get hit by 3 sub zero yolo slides.
I already chalk up that 31% of my life will vanish everytime I play a SZ
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
I’m having a hard time trying to understand all the crying about fatal blows.

I mean, in MK9, X-rays were safe across the board, had instant armor, can be used more than once, did great damage and some of them even started combos. I don’t remember any crying then

MKX, I believe there were some xrays that were unsafe, but those also had pushback, instant armor, can be used more than once, great damage and some lead to combos. I believe there was an X-ray that was plus on block in that game as well. No crying there.

But for some reason, fatal blows in this game DO NOT have instant armor, EVERY SINGLE ONE is unsafe on block, some of them have crap damage and scaling thanks to the button press timing thing, DO NOT lead into combos, AND CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE IF YOU HIT WITH IT. This somehow caused a huge uproar about fatal blows being OP and I really don’t understand

My only issue with fatal blow is that it should not come back if you miss or it’s blocked. Other than that, they seem fine to me. Am I missing something?
This lacks context, who used x-ray in mkx at all the way meter worked in that game xray the least probablething to. FB on the other hand sucks the life out of a match and totally turning the tides of the match to the losers favor.
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Premium Supporter
Fatal blow takes a lot of aspects from other games that had comeback mechanics, I think they said themselves that the main reason for them being the way they are is because they were rarely used in previous games.
Shouldn't be surprising though as you spend your entire bar for a ~33% attack that scaled like ass instead of using it on the very useful EX moves, breakers, clash, pushblock etc. I dont even remember any X-rays in MKX being used in competitive play aside from Kitana's as a very expensive mixup tool.

Their answer was making them related to damage you take, which is.. fine I guess, it's become fairly common. Its their first stab at the hail-mary comeback tool, SF4/SFV did it and Tekken did it so why not.

Fatal blows, while very similar to Tekken rage arts have a few differences that make them feel more "cheesy".
The main thing is what many have already said, that shit comes back if you miss which is mind boggling. What kind of shit is that? Just like all the other examples, you should get it once hit or miss, it's really not that complicated.
It has to come back for the characters that can cancel it? they're using the resource of the extension they shouldn't get it again fuck them. Sub can cancel his X-ray in MKX and you didn't see him keep his meter.
Imo fixing this alone would be enough.

The other big difference between Ultras/V-triggers/Rage arts and Fatal blows is the no big flash before startup, hell with some like Liu Kang's and Jax i dont even realize what hit me till a sec in the animation, shit is blindly fast and have mad range.
I'm not expecting them to add freeze frames like the other games but its definitely a factor in how good they are. I'm sure the thought crossed their minds coz injustice series has that for its supers but they decided against it.

Also, comeback mechanics changing up the matchup isnt really new, in many cases it is intentional. A character that was getting zoned out all game suddenly has a tool that can punish a sloppy projectile if they read it (Rufus Ultra 2 in SF4, Vega VT1 in SFV, Bane's super in i2), or getting an extra tool (extra anti air, command throw super, reversal of some sort, good whiff punisher etc).
In MK11 however these types of KBs are outliers, and imo are on the wrong characters.

Lastly, I agree with that they're way too long, previous NRS supers were fine coz you'd see them once every 40 games at best, but when you essentially see FBs twice every game (yours and the opponent's) coz they're really good and why wouldn't you use them? yeah they are way too godamn long.