General/Other - Boneshaper The Only Nerf Bone Shaper Should Receive

[Braindead]

In the beginning he had no OH and couldn't meter burn hell sparks on block. They made it so that MBing the spark would make you +24 on block. Now it's +14. I think that's the big thing with everyone. People that know enough about the MU know to block low. At the moment the spark is really only a huge problem in the BS variation. Imposter uses it to keep the pressure going but BS can still use it for a massive blockstring that does good chip damage and builds insane meter. Imposter can MB the spark once to continue pressure but that's it. After that he's gotta back off.

'sigh' I shudder when I think about what could happen. I'll probably switch to Raiden or Cassie if he gets nerfed through the ground. Give the people something else to b**** about.

I know I've been playing bone shaper since like week 2.

I disagree that BS has good pressure with MB hell sparks, he'll never build back the bar he burns and he does like 5 or 6% chip for one bar. That's not worth it at all since he can't do anything without meter. IMO if he does the MB hell sparks into pressure for chip he's helping out his opponent more than he's benefiting from it. That should only be used to close rounds.

 

[STK]

You mean the one he had day 1? Sorry mate, you don't get to toot that horn now.

you know how NRS does. They dont fix things until it becomes a problem competitively. It just took them longer to catch this one. Sorry but no! If we are going to keep overpowering move in the game just because the character started off with it day one i want my klone back. lol I do think they should make his overhead faster. I play Shinnok also so im not trying to run the character into the ground but a 7f low starter is silly.

 

[KIllaByte]

Almost as bad as kenshi teleflurry whiff?

Bruh -20 ain't close to -53

Also 30% w one bar isn't abysmal especially when u consider the guaranteed block dmg and meter build after the restand

He said close to that teleflurry on whiff though, the old Shinnok blaster was more than minus 20 on block, imagine it on whiff.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I completely agree with this, it's just that fucking projectile what makes him suuuper good, nerfing it would still make him top 10 IMO.

 

[Skylight1]

Damn I feel bad being a shinnok day 1 main now.... I used to play Bone Shaper when it was probably one of the worst variations in the game and dropped it like 3 days afterward for an even worst variation Necromancer. Just imagine how I feel having to see people upplaying Shinnok now due to the community not being able to learn his moves and find a way to improve their metagame. Seriously this attitude amongst this community is really getting on my nerves. "Oh Shinnok got a +24 frame advantage on a special move... enhanced? Welp, NRS plz nerf it so we (the bitchy community), don't have to learn how to get over it!"

Since when did we become catty all of a sudden? We forcing people to even make apologies for their opinion on a character now, too? Holy cow Shinnok,

 

[STRYKIE]

you know how NRS does. They dont fix things until it becomes a problem competitively. It just took them longer to catch this one. Sorry but no! If we are going to keep overpowering move in the game just because the character started off with it day one i want my klone back. lol I do think they should make his overhead faster. I play Shinnok also so im not trying to run the character into the ground but a 7f low starter is silly.

NRS's philosophy is that they will make changes if a move is being used outside of how they envisioned it. I'm not really sure how the F4 is doing that. Nor would making his overhead faster be good compensation.

Besides, the fact that it allows him to punish things that other characters can't makes it interesting IMO and opens up a new dynamic that we don't normally seee in a lot of matchups. And he does need some kind of resource to get a decent conversion from it. What's the point in having every character follow the same stale arbitrary set of normals? I was disappointed when NRS copped out on Raiden's F1 by making it a high instead of more negative on block and keeping it mid, and I don't even play Raiden.

If NRS feel they HAVE to change it, I'd rather they make it a mid and redistribute standing 3 as his low option. But that's if they have to.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Damn I feel bad being a shinnok day 1 main now.... I used to play Bone Shaper when it was probably one of the worst variations in the game and dropped it like 3 days afterward for an even worst variation Necromancer. Just imagine how I feel having to see people upplaying Shinnok now due to the community not being able to learn his moves and find a way to improve their metagame. Seriously this attitude amongst this community is really getting on my nerves. "Oh Shinnok got a +24 frame advantage on a special move... enhanced? Welp, NRS plz nerf it so we (the bitchy community), don't have to learn how to get over it!"

Since when did we become catty all of a sudden? We forcing people to even make apologies for their opinion on a character now, too? Holy cow Shinnok,

lol. How in the heaven will learning his moves change anything? He has amazing moves, learning them will only make you realize how good he is.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

easiest single nerf would be to make him unselectable at the character screen.

 

[ArmedCalf]

easiest single nerf would be to make him unselectable at the character screen.

EVO already did that to me on stream lol. It was very effective I must say

 

[OnlineSkunk]

dark beam > -7 on block, +3 on hit,
EX dark beam > 0 on block
hell sparks, meter burn > +9 on block
and I agree with AoK Ryan only on F41D2 last hit not being a blocking combo string
for now that's all that needs to be done to Bone Shaper in my opinion and maybe give the low tier character slight buffs that are not some cheap blocking combos string or +9000 on block specials, please NRS

 

[Skylight1]

lol. How in the heaven will learning his moves change anything? He has amazing moves, learning them will only make you realize how good he is.

Maybe you didn't understand the connotation of that word. His "moves", as in learning what to do to counter him. Meaning, instead of bitching and complaining about how he's so "OP", take the initiative and do the hard work in the lab. Even after learning his moves, his normal are somewhat okay to moderately good, but there's other normal out there that are much better.

You're right he's good... but how good is the question. Is he that good that half of the community is going batshit crazy because of a few buffs he received, that rivaled even some of Kung Lao's buffs? Should he be nerfed? That's not up to me to decide or anyone here to decide except NRS. But, the casual gamers and some of the more "advanced" players on this site will still find a way to cry bloody wolf to NRS when there's far more worst issues out there than Bone Shaper Shinnok.

 

[Etoroguy]

Bone Shaper isn't unbeatable, I beat more Bone Shapers than I do Tempest Laos. At least with imposter. Both need variation specific nerfs.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Maybe you didn't understand the connotation of that word. His "moves", as in learning what to do to counter him. Meaning, instead of bitching and complaining about how he's so "OP", take the initiative and do the hard work in the lab. Even after learning his moves, his normal are somewhat okay to moderately good, but there's other normal out there that are much better.

You're right he's good... but how good is the question. Is he that good that half of the community is going batshit crazy because of a few buffs he received, that rivaled even some of Kung Lao's buffs? Should he be nerfed? That's not up to me to decide or anyone here to decide except NRS. But, the casual gamers and some of the more "advanced" players on this site will still find a way to cry bloody wolf to NRS when there's far more worst issues out there than Bone Shaper Shinnok.

The fact is that a lot of characters can't counter his moves at all. He is safe or plus on anything and he has no holes on his pressure. He has a great zoning and anti-zoning game as well, sure characters can somewhat counter it but it's not like the characters who do that wrexk him or anything, he just has to be more careful. I'm sorry, but BS Shinnok is a top 2 character on his current state, and there is no doubt about that.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

For all the people screaming about nerfs, i'll put this out there: at EGL, Shinnok's overhead was punished TWICE in the entire tournament. The same people who think Shinnok is broken are also not exploiting the match. It is not tight to ask for a character to be nerfed when the matchup is not being maximized.

 

[Daemantalo]

For all the people screaming about nerfs, i'll put this out there: at EGL, Shinnok's overhead was punished TWICE in the entire tournament. The same people who think Shinnok is broken are also not exploiting the match. It is not tight to ask for a character to be nerfed when the matchup is not being maximized.

I agree with this statement. *Hides Behind Commando Kano Parries.* Seriously though, the match-up needs to be grinded out and there's got to be solutions in stopping him. Funny, we didn't see any Bone Shaper Shinnoks in top 8 at EVO and people make him out to be the messiah of broken characters. Every character in this game has some serious stuff they could use against each other. BS Shinnok is no exception.

 

[Genei Jin]

impostor variation already got nerfed significantly because of the universal mb hellsparks nerf. f22 not being able anymore to jail is huge. shinnok cant even go for a mix up after the 2nd or 1st mb hell spark since the gap is huge.

some of you might think this post-block mix up is unfair but it takes meter and his imposter variation lives and dies by the meter. also consider than bone shaper shinnok has an easy meterless restand vortex. its not always the case with impostor variation.

unless you give impostor variation something to compensate, leave his universal moves alone. as the topic creator said, the dark beam is the main issue.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I agree with this statement. *Hides Behind Commando Kano Parries.* Seriously though, the match-up needs to be grinded out and there's got to be solutions in stopping him. Funny, we didn't see any Bone Shaper Shinnoks in top 8 at EVO and people make him out to be the messiah of broken characters. Every character in this game has some serious stuff they could use against each other. BS Shinnok is no exception.

Nobody ever said he was the Messiah. He is nowhere near to Kabal or anything. But saying he isn't so damn good is dumb. He is clearly top 2, which doesn't mean he is god tier or anything, but he is so good for a lot of characters.

 

[Skylight1]

For all the people screaming about nerfs, i'll put this out there: at EGL, Shinnok's overhead was punished TWICE in the entire tournament. The same people who think Shinnok is broken are also not exploiting the match. It is not tight to ask for a character to be nerfed when the matchup is not being maximized.

YES! From a guy who just won a major's own mouth! THANK YOU! I've been saying this for the past month now.

What are your thoughts on BS shinnok in top tier? You think he's top 5 or top 10?

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

YES! From a guy who just won a major's own mouth! THANK YOU! I've been saying this for the past month now.

What are your thoughts on BS shinnok in top tier? You think he's top 5 or top 10?

He's most likely top 5.

 

[Daemantalo]

Nobody ever said he was the Messiah. He is nowhere near to Kabal or anything. But saying he isn't so damn good is dumb. He is clearly top 2, which doesn't mean he is god tier or anything, but he is so good for a lot of characters.

We usually have a fairly active thread complaining about Bone Shaper Shinnok. We had people throwing salt about the character being "broken" when WoundCowboy won EGL. (Just look at the thread Pig made on who's the "best players," I'm sure you've seen it though. Maybe my wording of Messiah is jumping the gun, but judging by the complaints it's pretty damn clear how much salt is induced from people who play BS Shinnok.

EDIT: I'm very sure NRS already has plans to "normalize Bone Shaper Shinnok." Just a giant hunch and speculation because a balance patch is somewhat due.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Just cause I've seen it stated several times between this and other Shinnok threads.... he might not have been bottom-2 pre-patch. That was at a point when guys were ID'ing the entire game after a couple weeks of release. He still had f3 (at the time) and better MB-HS.

BTW... remember when people suggested that Nightwolf's f3 be a low and it was met with resounding "NO!"? And that move was slower and barely traveled the distance of a hard dick.

 

[Braindead]

Just cause I've seen it stated several times between this and other Shinnok threads.... he might not have been bottom-2 pre-patch. That was at a point when guys were ID'ing the entire game after a couple weeks of release. He still had f3 (at the time) and better MB-HS.

BTW... remember when people suggested that Nightwolf's f3 be a low and it was met with resounding "NO!"? And that move was slower and barely traveled the distance of a hard dick.

Shinnok was a bottom 2 contender on release. Back then he couldn't MB hell sparks on block and didn't have an overhead. He was utter crap lol.

No one thought he was bottom 2 anymore after he got the MB hell sparks on block.

 

[STK]

Nok is top 3. Maybe even number 1 because of how easy he is. Simple as that! If you don't believe me Just take a look at some of the people that have gotten top 5 or higher that were not breaking that placing before only because they pick up BS Nok.

NRS's philosophy is that they will make changes if a move is being used outside of how they envisioned it. I'm not really sure how the F4 is doing that. Nor would making his overhead faster be good compensation.

Besides, the fact that it allows him to punish things that other characters can't makes it interesting IMO and opens up a new dynamic that we don't normally seee in a lot of matchups. And he does need some kind of resource to get a decent conversion from it. What's the point in having every character follow the same stale arbitrary set of normals? I was disappointed when NRS copped out on Raiden's F1 by making it a high instead of more negative on block and keeping it mid, and I don't even play Raiden.

If NRS feel they HAVE to change it, I'd rather they make it a mid and redistribute standing 3 as his low option. But that's if they have to.

As a nok main i feel that f4 being 7f is a bit to much. As for the overhead i don't want it faster as compensation i just want it faster because i play nok. i needs to be faster!!! lol

 

[Alright RyRy]

For all the people screaming about nerfs, i'll put this out there: at EGL, Shinnok's overhead was punished TWICE in the entire tournament. The same people who think Shinnok is broken are also not exploiting the match. It is not tight to ask for a character to be nerfed when the matchup is not being maximized.

This. THIS. THIS. THIS. and MORE OF THIS.

People cry about a 7 frame low, but please look at his other strings and tell me when do you see those EVER being used.

A few small changes that the majority of the community agrees on.

Do NOT touch his F4.
Make D1 8-9 frames
Make Dark Beam -7/-8 on block.
Maybe do something with the F41D2 string.

This is it, nothing more.

 

[STK]

smh