Braindead
I want Kronika to step on my face
I don't know if there's a point in creating this thread really, I assume Paulo has already done the adjustments he wants and we're just waiting for it to be released. Anyway, there's just way too much talk about Bone Shaper and people are complaining about the wrong stuff, so, as someone who's been playing Bone Shaper since release, I want to make clear what exactly made him this strong and how to tone it down.
Most Shinnok players saw this a long time ago and some of them already suggested it, so here goes:
The suggested nerf:
- Add 5 (or 6) frames of recovery on his projectile (Dark Beam).
The reasoning: (This is going to be a bit long, but it is very detailed and should be very convincing if you're willing to read)
TL;DR: The nerf will make dark beam +3 on hit and -9 on block.
Before the last patch, where the projectile got buffed, Bone Shaper had pretty much all the tools he has now, except for 2 things: The restand used to leave him at neutral (now it's +8), and his projectile was as good as if it didn't exist, so his zoning was almost non-existent.
The projectile used to be a mid, but it was -12 on hit (yes, -12,) and -24 on block. And on whiff it was death; it was almost as bad as Kenshi's TF on whiff. The buff was basically shaving off 20 frames of recovery, which made it +8 on hit, and -4 on block. Also it became a high instead of a mid.
Even with all the tools he had, he was low mid-tier at best, or mid-tier at best. He had no damage and no zoning, and even though MB Hell sparks used to be +24 on block, his mixups were only good on knock down, as they were could be very easily fuzzy guarded. But he excelled at defense, close space control with hell sparks, and countering grounded-zoning. These were good, but not nearly good enough without more help.
So you see, the only change that made Bone Shaper jump from the abyss of lower tiers to the top of the mountain, was the projectile buff.
Bone Shaper currently has 2 weaknesses: His damage is very bad, and he is extremely meter-dependent. Both those weaknesses are masked by how good the projectile currently is.
Bone Shaper's current damage is around the 30% area with one bar, and he can't get more even if he decided to spend 2 bars. He just can't get any more damage. Without meter, Shinnok has no juggles outside the corner, except for his overhead, which is 18f and is not exactly useful in neutral, and also very difficult to combo off it without proper spacing. So without meter the best Shinnok can do is ~18% combos. In the corner his meterless combos are about 22%.
Without meter Shinnok can't get damage, can't get the restand, can't counter zone with EX Scoop, can't make hell sparks safe (-22 on block or much worse if 3rd spark whiffs, which happens a lot,) and the universal can't wakeup/armor/break. The only thing he can do without meter is zone with the projectile. To do all these things, BS needs to spend meter constantly.
The projectile in it's current status masks those weaknesses; he still gets 30% damage of his BnBs but they are ended in a restand which leads into guaranteed pressure (+8 restand) and about 4% guaranteed chip, and it's safe on block (-4) which means he can continually use it on block to build meter. Also -4 is much too safe, and might allow him to follow up a sneaky d1 or f4 if the opponent has slow pokes/normals.
What the suggested nerf will do is make the projectile +3 on hit, and -9 on block (or +2/-10 if 6 frames of recovery are added). This will result in the following:
- His restand will no longer lead into guaranteed pressure; the opponent can now easily armor, back dash or jump. But it will still be more useful than the semi-useless neutral restand he had before. However this won't be the go-to strategy anymore, and BS players will have to go into knockdowns again. This means Shinnok's combos will do low damage now (1-bar, ~30%) and won't guarantee pressure/chip damage.
- The projectile can't be used willy nilly on block anymore, because it's unsafe or at least won't let him sneak in more pressure against some characters. This will reduce his meter building, which he desperately needs.
- It will obviously tone down his zoning because of the added recovery frames.
The 3 points above are the points that make Bone Shaper very strong, and with that one single nerf it will tone down all 3 points. It won't nerf him to the ground, it won't affect the other 2 variations (which desperately need all they have right now,) and I imagine most of his MUs will be even, and his current even ones will become a little worse.
And finally, not that it matters anyway, his gameplan won't be a one-way route anymore, so people won't complain about how boring he is, or how he is so @Braindead.
Most Shinnok players saw this a long time ago and some of them already suggested it, so here goes:
The suggested nerf:
- Add 5 (or 6) frames of recovery on his projectile (Dark Beam).
The reasoning: (This is going to be a bit long, but it is very detailed and should be very convincing if you're willing to read)
TL;DR: The nerf will make dark beam +3 on hit and -9 on block.
Before the last patch, where the projectile got buffed, Bone Shaper had pretty much all the tools he has now, except for 2 things: The restand used to leave him at neutral (now it's +8), and his projectile was as good as if it didn't exist, so his zoning was almost non-existent.
The projectile used to be a mid, but it was -12 on hit (yes, -12,) and -24 on block. And on whiff it was death; it was almost as bad as Kenshi's TF on whiff. The buff was basically shaving off 20 frames of recovery, which made it +8 on hit, and -4 on block. Also it became a high instead of a mid.
Even with all the tools he had, he was low mid-tier at best, or mid-tier at best. He had no damage and no zoning, and even though MB Hell sparks used to be +24 on block, his mixups were only good on knock down, as they were could be very easily fuzzy guarded. But he excelled at defense, close space control with hell sparks, and countering grounded-zoning. These were good, but not nearly good enough without more help.
So you see, the only change that made Bone Shaper jump from the abyss of lower tiers to the top of the mountain, was the projectile buff.
Bone Shaper currently has 2 weaknesses: His damage is very bad, and he is extremely meter-dependent. Both those weaknesses are masked by how good the projectile currently is.
Bone Shaper's current damage is around the 30% area with one bar, and he can't get more even if he decided to spend 2 bars. He just can't get any more damage. Without meter, Shinnok has no juggles outside the corner, except for his overhead, which is 18f and is not exactly useful in neutral, and also very difficult to combo off it without proper spacing. So without meter the best Shinnok can do is ~18% combos. In the corner his meterless combos are about 22%.
Without meter Shinnok can't get damage, can't get the restand, can't counter zone with EX Scoop, can't make hell sparks safe (-22 on block or much worse if 3rd spark whiffs, which happens a lot,) and the universal can't wakeup/armor/break. The only thing he can do without meter is zone with the projectile. To do all these things, BS needs to spend meter constantly.
The projectile in it's current status masks those weaknesses; he still gets 30% damage of his BnBs but they are ended in a restand which leads into guaranteed pressure (+8 restand) and about 4% guaranteed chip, and it's safe on block (-4) which means he can continually use it on block to build meter. Also -4 is much too safe, and might allow him to follow up a sneaky d1 or f4 if the opponent has slow pokes/normals.
What the suggested nerf will do is make the projectile +3 on hit, and -9 on block (or +2/-10 if 6 frames of recovery are added). This will result in the following:
- His restand will no longer lead into guaranteed pressure; the opponent can now easily armor, back dash or jump. But it will still be more useful than the semi-useless neutral restand he had before. However this won't be the go-to strategy anymore, and BS players will have to go into knockdowns again. This means Shinnok's combos will do low damage now (1-bar, ~30%) and won't guarantee pressure/chip damage.
- The projectile can't be used willy nilly on block anymore, because it's unsafe or at least won't let him sneak in more pressure against some characters. This will reduce his meter building, which he desperately needs.
- It will obviously tone down his zoning because of the added recovery frames.
The 3 points above are the points that make Bone Shaper very strong, and with that one single nerf it will tone down all 3 points. It won't nerf him to the ground, it won't affect the other 2 variations (which desperately need all they have right now,) and I imagine most of his MUs will be even, and his current even ones will become a little worse.
And finally, not that it matters anyway, his gameplan won't be a one-way route anymore, so people won't complain about how boring he is, or how he is so @Braindead.
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