The one thing I actually wanted brought from INJ to MK - TRAITS

[CrimsonShadow]

Imagine if Injustice 2 had variations, playing redhood and get your opponent into the corner and wanna do some tricky mine set ups?? NOPE, you picked the zoning Redhood variation and can only throw stuff from full screen. Thats how MK11 feels and why imo it is so incredibly boring.

Who in MK11 can only zone and cannot play footsies or play the strike/stagger/throw game up close? If anything, the complaint has been that characters have been able to do too much, rather than too little. Examples: Spring Cleaning, Luohan Quan, Outtake, Sonya, vanilla Erron, Warlock etc. Geras being able to counter-zone/control movement from full screen. Etc.

Who is it that can only throw stuff and can’t do anything else?

This just bolsters the argument for people not knowing what they want.

 

[ticklebandit!]

Who in MK11 can only zone and cannot play footsies or play the strike/stagger/throw game up close? If anything, the complaint has been that characters have been able to do too much, rather than too little. Examples: Spring Cleaning, Luohan Quan, Outtake, Sonya, vanilla Erron, Warlock etc. Geras being able to counter-zone/control movement from full screen. Etc.

Who is it that can only throw stuff and can’t do anything else?

This just bolsters the argument for people not knowing what they want.

I know exactly what i want, no more variations in MK. You can cherry pick the top tier of MK11 to counter my hypothetical injustice variation all you want but my point still stands. The MAJORITY of variations in MK11 FEEL restricted and one dimensional.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I know exactly what i want, no more variations in MK. You can cherry pick the top tier of MK11 to counter my hypothetical injustice variation all you want but my point still stands. The MAJORITY of variations in MK11 FEEL restricted and one dimensional.

I'm just asking who the characters are that you're referencing that can only throw stuff from a distance but not play footsies and strike/throw like everybody else.

Because the complaint is usually that everyone plays the same game and characters aren't different enough from each other. Rather than, for example, that they can only zone and do nothing else.

(Also, I'm not at all just referring to the top tier. For example, Highborn Kitana isn't considered to be S tier, but she is comfortable from distance, in the midrange, and up close with razors.. So that's yet another example.)

 

[xWildx]

You’re making my point for me. It’s clear that you won’t mention all the MKX characters like Takeda, Mileena etc. that had multiple viable variations.

It should be a given that not every single variation in a game will be viable. Just like not every character will be top competitive tier in a fighting game. And people won’t use every super or assist a game where you’re allowed to select from multiple supers/assists. Sometimes a given option is simply superior or inferior.

But if it’s possible for the execution to be different between two games, then it’s clear that you are not really griping with the variation system itself, but with the way it is used for certain characters.

Because every example of a character that provides multiple useful/fun choices (and there are numerous, between both MK11 and MKX) is substantiation for the fact that the variation system itself actually can work well, and can give players choices where they wouldn’t normally have them.

You are extraordinarily obtuse.

 

[Gooberking]

I think many people agree that variations are trash.....snip......

No.

 

[Afk Skinny]

I'm all for traits in MK. I was thinking of a few traits a while back, like Kabal has a meter for his respirator that, when held, he recovers a certain amount of health with a cooldown on his meter. Nitara would be able to fly for a period of time, also being able to attack from there. Hotaru would have a meter that charges throughout the match, and once it's filled he lets loose a burst of light that stuns and restands the opponent. Love traits so much more

 

[Jbog]

Variations are a easy way to not address obvious character flaws! Its a lazy asses way of making a "complete" character. We hot enough injustice stuff in mk alreasy the mk characters and dc characters crossing over in games is just retarded so many in mk and dc universe and we get r

You’re making my point for me. It’s clear that you won’t mention all the MKX characters like Takeda, Mileena etc. that had multiple viable variations.

It should be a given that not every single variation in a game will be viable. Just like not every character will be top competitive tier in a fighting game. And people won’t use every super or assist a game where you’re allowed to select from multiple supers/assists. Sometimes a given option is simply superior or inferior.

But if it’s possible for the execution to be different between two games, then it’s clear that you are not really griping with the variation system itself -- but rather with the way it is used for certain characters.

Every example of a character that provides multiple useful/fun choices (and there are numerous, between both MK11 and MKX) is substantiation for the fact that the variation system itself actually can work well, and can give players choices where they wouldn’t normally have them.

Raiden in injustice and joker in mk. Am i the only one that thinks this is stupid? Also thats where we got this stupid breaker aystem

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

You do realize that a variation on average has no less moves than a variation-less NRS character (like MK9 or Injustice).

You’re not getting something ‘incomplete’.. You’re just getting additional options for the same thing you’d be getting anyway.

If you don’t like it, you can just pick your favorite variation and only play that one, and you literally lose nothing.

MK9 Sub Zero: Ice Ball, Ex Ice Ball, Slide, Puddle, Ice Clone.

MK11 Sub Zero: Ice Ball, Amp Ice Ball, Shoulder.

Seems pretty incomplete to me.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

MK9 Sub Zero: Ice Ball, Ex Ice Ball, Slide, Puddle, Ice Clone.

MK11 Sub Zero: Ice Ball, Amp Ice Ball, Shoulder.

Seems pretty incomplete to me.

You intentionally left out MKX, where Grandmaster had for example: Ice Ball, Slide, Ice Burst, Clone and Clone Toss. Which is more than the four special moves he had in MK9 (Ice Ball, Clone, Puddle, Slide).

Which shows, once again, that the total number of specials a character has is not set by the variation system. It's a design decision.

 

[Jbog]

Your right comment after just lists more moves that are not og sub zero

 

[Jbog]

And the decision is made to keep some in and some out so they can still do their crap ppl y variations system

 

[skahwt]

I really like the idea of "traits" in Injustice but I want them to stay in Injustice if I'm honest. I think NRS has done a good job of making Injustice, "Injustice" and MK, "MK" if you know what I mean. Both games play similar but are their own creatures and I really like that about these games.

Some one (I can't remember who posted it recently) reminded me that Johnny was almost considered to be in I2 from one of Ed'd tweets or whatever. This got me thinking along with your post that maybe Johnny could be in the next one?!?! With that said it's been fun lately to imagine what type of trait they would give him. I can imagine it activates his green aura either enhancing his damage or giving him certain special moves or something like that, who knows?

I fully agree that variations gotta go. I thought it was kind of a cool idea when MKX launched but now after 2 games of having variations I'd honestly rather just have 1 solid variation of my character, not 3 to choose from. Just my opinion.

I can go either way on variations in MK, but love the traits in Injustice, and agree that they should be left in Injustice. It’s cool that both franchises have their own identity, and I’d hate for them to become indistinguishable outside of visual aesthetics.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Nah. Bad idea.

 

[MKF30]

I semi-Agree with you. I bought the game for the customs, Soooooo.

But I really think the traits should have stayed!

Same. They hyped up the kustoms only to essentially do the same thing they did in MK X with serious/competitive/tourney play. Have 3 presets to choose from...I guess casuals use the kustoms but with the option to power them up, tweak damage etc I can't see how they can be played as competitively. At this point, I hope they do away with them at least in MK. I want MK 12 to go back to how it was from MK 1, 2, 3, UMK3, 4, MK vsDC and MK 9. Just give everyone a set style. No multiple styles, no variations.

The only way I'd be up for this system again is if they do something where it's similar to the kustoms where you have to balance out the character but they have a limit to how many possibilities you can do so that we don't have like 100 different possibilities per character.

Like say, going to try my best to explain this. I would only limit it to 1 style or variations (whatever you want to call it) per character however they have extra moves that they can swap out/trade with existing moves so your character isn't broken.

Let's say Scorpion for example has his base style in MK 12: Spear, Teleport(ground only can't be done in the air), Leg Take down, Air Throw. That's it.
Now the trade moves in his menu would be
Air teleport(replaces ground teleport so you can only do this in the air)
Fireball toss(replaces Spear)
Hell Flip Kick(replaces Leg Takedown)
Ground Fire(replaces Air throw)
If someone uses the default, they don't get these moves and they just balance it out so you can't create a broken style(with less special moves it shouldn't be that hard to do)

If they did THIS for every character and kept it simple, short and sweet and over overly complex I would be down for it or just bring back one style per character where people who want to use that character actually stick with the character those who are character loyal.

 

[Komatose]

No.

 

[Marinjuana]

I love traits in Injustice but I don't think they should make it so every character has to have a trait gimmick in MK. I would love to see more character gimmicks that are similar to traits though.

Captain Cold and Brainiac had traits that made their gameplay way more interesting than it would have been otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing something like that in MK on a couple characters. It doesn't have to be a dedicated button, just some kind of unique mechanic.

 

[Braindead]

You all know damn well if they added traits to MK all the trolls would come out of the woods "OMG THEYRE TURNING MK INTO INJUSTASS!1!!11!!"

Variations are bad because to balance a whole character they have to give it a tame base moveset then try to make it good with variation-specific shit. Which means that pretty much most variations have one "gimmick"/gameplan/strong point you have to focus on, and if it doesn't work in that specific MU then gg look for another variation, and I really hate that.

I play avalanche subzero and I think he's the most fun of all 3 variations, but if I can't put out the trap easily in the MU then 70% of the variation goes out of the window and I'm playing a gimped character now. Thin Ice has some nice space control with air axe but up close it's weak and far away it's not strong, you just feel it's missing something all the time. DoW is all about the high-risk/high-reward mix which I find boring.

It's not about the number of special moves. DoW only has 2 (ffs) and ironically it's the best one. MK9 Sub only had 4 moves but you felt like the moves complemented the normals and strings so well. He suffered in some match ups but it was due to balance, not because you felt the toolset is missing something.

 

[Error404]

MK characters are unique enough without traits. Just not in this title. And thats only because they are so underpowered , that most characters can be reduced to Jabs , pokes and throws as their best gameplan.

 

[John Grizzly]

No.

I said many, not everyone. Read the thread and see how many people agree with me.

Really well thought out retort, btw. Excellent contribution to the thread.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

Ive actually bern working on a list of changes for this game including a new comeback mechanic, changes for every characters and new passives/gameplans to spice up the game.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

ves. DoW only has 2 (ffs) and ironically it's the best one.

Avalanche is best. Bye Felicia

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

Same. They hyped up the kustoms only to essentially do the same thing they did in MK X with serious/competitive/tourney play. Have 3 presets to choose from...I guess casuals use the kustoms but with the option to power them up, tweak damage etc I can't see how they can be played as competitively. At this point, I hope they do away with them at least in MK. I want MK 12 to go back to how it was from MK 1, 2, 3, UMK3, 4, MK vsDC and MK 9. Just give everyone a set style. No multiple styles, no variations.

The only way I'd be up for this system again is if they do something where it's similar to the kustoms where you have to balance out the character but they have a limit to how many possibilities you can do so that we don't have like 100 different possibilities per character.

Like say, going to try my best to explain this. I would only limit it to 1 style or variations (whatever you want to call it) per character however they have extra moves that they can swap out/trade with existing moves so your character isn't broken.

Let's say Scorpion for example has his base style in MK 12: Spear, Teleport(ground only can't be done in the air), Leg Take down, Air Throw. That's it.
Now the trade moves in his menu would be
Air teleport(replaces ground teleport so you can only do this in the air)
Fireball toss(replaces Spear)
Hell Flip Kick(replaces Leg Takedown)
Ground Fire(replaces Air throw)
If someone uses the default, they don't get these moves and they just balance it out so you can't create a broken style(with less special moves it shouldn't be that hard to do)

If they did THIS for every character and kept it simple, short and sweet and over overly complex I would be down for it or just bring back one style per character where people who want to use that character actually stick with the character those who are character loyal.

I love not having to deal with customs like mk9, but IMO that give the character less "SHAZAAM" (4 lack of better terms)
I personally say, Costoms only,
Everyone picks top moves in a vote
those become tourney Variation

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

I love not having to deal with customs like mk9, but IMO that give the character less "SHAZAAM" (4 lack of better terms)
I personally say, Costoms only,
Everyone picks top moves in a vote
those become tourney Variation

Because IMO Netherealm chose ALL the wrong moves per Characters.

 

[Braindead]

Avalanche is best. Bye Felicia

I meant best as in MU numbers. I don't think Avalanche is good enough in a lot of MUs that can punish clone.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I meant best as in MU numbers. I don't think Avalanche is good enough in a lot of MUs that can punish clone.

Pfft. Avalanche is best in all matchups.

Why?

Cause creeping ice allows safety always.
Slide > shoulder. Always.