The one thing I actually wanted brought from INJ to MK - TRAITS

[John Grizzly]

I think many people agree that variations are trash. All it does is fragment the character into 3 half assed, incomplete versions. I never wanted interactables in MK but we got that. Traits, on the other hand, would have been pretty sick, imho.

Imagine your character with NO VARIATIONS and an actual FULL MOVELIST. Now imagine them with an additional, unique trait that can completely change the character while it's active. I really loved the idea so much.

I mained Ares and Lobo in INJ1 and loved both their traits. Ares was garbage, but my god was he fun as hell to play. The sword had such amazing combo utility and just felt amazing to use. Lobo having to load his shotgun made me feel like I was actually playing the character and MY GOD did it feel good to land those shots with trait loaded. I won't get into INJ2, as it was just more of the same and handled just as well. A bunch of super unique, incredibly creative and varied traits that made the game feel so different and fun.

Would anyone else like to see traits in the next MK? I'd kill for them to be in instead of the variations. If so, what would your ideas be for your character's (or any MK characters) trait?

I imagine Shao Kahn's Dark Priest being part of his trait (but actually useful without a billion frames of startup). Or possibly his hammer being used like Ares' sword with a whole additional set of moves with cooldown after use.

I'm bored at work. Just humor me.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You do realize that a variation on average has no less moves than a variation-less NRS character (like MK9 or Injustice).

You’re not getting something ‘incomplete’.. You’re just getting additional options for the same thing you’d be getting anyway.

If you don’t like it, you can just pick your favorite variation and only play that one, and you literally lose nothing.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

I think many people agree that variations are trash. All it does is fragment the character into 3 half assed, incomplete versions. I never wanted interactables in MK but we got that. Traits, on the other hand, would have been pretty sick, imho.

Imagine your character with NO VARIATIONS and an actual FULL MOVELIST. Now imagine them with an additional, unique trait that can completely change the character while it's active. I really loved the idea so much.

I mained Ares and Lobo in INJ1 and loved both their traits. Ares was garbage, but my god was he fun as hell to play. The sword had such amazing combo utility and just felt amazing to use. Lobo having to load his shotgun made me feel like I was actually playing the character and MY GOD did it feel good to land those shots with trait loaded. I won't get into INJ2, as it was just more of the same and handled just as well. A bunch of super unique, incredibly creative and varied traits that made the game feel so different and fun.

Would anyone else like to see traits in the next MK? I'd kill for them to be in instead of the variations. If so, what would your ideas be for your character's (or any MK characters) trait?

I imagine Shao Kahn's Dark Priest being part of his trait (but actually useful without a billion frames of startup). Or possibly his hammer being used like Ares' sword with a whole additional set of moves with cooldown after use.

I'm bored at work. Just humor me.

I semi-Agree with you. I bought the game for the customs, Soooooo.

But I really think the traits should have stayed!

 

[Tundra81]

I really like the idea of "traits" in Injustice but I want them to stay in Injustice if I'm honest. I think NRS has done a good job of making Injustice, "Injustice" and MK, "MK" if you know what I mean. Both games play similar but are their own creatures and I really like that about these games.

Some one (I can't remember who posted it recently) reminded me that Johnny was almost considered to be in I2 from one of Ed'd tweets or whatever. This got me thinking along with your post that maybe Johnny could be in the next one?!?! With that said it's been fun lately to imagine what type of trait they would give him. I can imagine it activates his green aura either enhancing his damage or giving him certain special moves or something like that, who knows?

I fully agree that variations gotta go. I thought it was kind of a cool idea when MKX launched but now after 2 games of having variations I'd honestly rather just have 1 solid variation of my character, not 3 to choose from. Just my opinion.

 

[Braindead]

I never wanted interactables in MK but we got that

Obligatory interactables have been an MK thing since MK4 and stage transitions since MK3 comment

I threw so many boulders at bitches in MK4

 

[John Grizzly]

Obligatory interactables have been an MK thing since MK4 and stage transitions since MK3 comment

I threw so many boulders at bitches in MK4

I actually completely forgot about that. I guess I blocked it out because I thought MK4 was awful.

 

[John Grizzly]

You do realize that a variation on average has no less moves than a variation-less NRS character (like MK9 or Injustice).

You’re not getting something ‘incomplete’.. You’re just getting additional options for the same thing you’d be getting anyway.

If you don’t like it, you can just pick your favorite variation and only play that one, and you literally lose nothing.

You honestly don't think you're losing anything having a version of Raiden without a teleport, versions of Sub Zero without an Ice Clone etc?

It also forces the developers to include horseshit moves that NO ONE WOULD EVER USE, like Johnny's stupid stunt double in MK11 just to fill move slots.

One complete moveset would be preferred by me, at least. I find it odd that anyone would prefer variations, especially considering how poorly they've been handled in MK11.

Variations fragment the characters - bottom line. If developers only had to worry about one moveset, the characters would feel more complete. And they could also potentially include more characters, not give Mileena's Sai to the most boring version of Kitana in history.

 

[fr stack]

Say what you want about mk10 i think they got the variations right in that game it was based on archetypes . Zoner rushdown set up trap grappler and all the others in between .
I would love traits in this game it was a meta changer like sinestros orb blast thingys the character became completely different to fight while it was active . Added a great flow to things

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You honestly don't think you're losing anything having a version of Raiden without a teleport, versions of Sub Zero without an Ice Clone etc?

It also forces the developers to include horseshit moves that NO ONE WOULD EVER USE, like Johnny's stupid stunt double in MK11 just to fill move slots.

One complete moveset would be preferred by me, at least. I find it odd that anyone would prefer variations, especially considering how poorly they've been handled in MK11.

Variations fragment the characters - bottom line. If developers only had to worry about one moveset, the characters would feel more complete. And they could also potentially include more characters, not give Mileena's Sai to the most boring version of Kitana in history.

That’s not the variation system, it’s just design choices. The system itself doesn’t force you to separate certain classic moves.

For example, what is Luohan Quan missing? That variation is classic Liu in a nutshell.

It’s entirely possible to have more ‘classic’ variations alongside others that do different things. As evidenced by Liu, Johnny Cage, Sub, Shang, and several others who either have the majority of their iconic moves in at least one of the variations, or as part of the base kit.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

You do realize that a variation on average has no less moves than a variation-less NRS character (like MK9 or Injustice).

You’re not getting something ‘incomplete’.. You’re just getting additional options for the same thing you’d be getting anyway.

If you don’t like it, you can just pick your favorite variation and only play that one, and you literally lose nothing.

I'd agree with you if this were MKX, but MK11's variations feel like an afterthought. The MKX variations had purpose, you could see how they were designed to work even if they didn't always hit the mark. MK11 they just took everyone's best moves and sprinkled them out between different loadouts. So many of them have moves slapped on that seem pointless and don't work in tandem with the character's base kit. And that's the overall problem. MKX variations were designed, these were simply made.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

That’s not the variation system, it’s just design choices. The system itself doesn’t force you to separate certain classic moves.

For example, what is Luohan Quan missing? That variation is classic Liu in a nutshell. It’s entirely possible to have a more ‘classic’ variation alongside others that do different things. As evidenced by Liu, Johnny Cage, Sub, Shang, and several others who either have the majority of their iconic moves in at least one of the variations, or as part of the base kit.

Don't forget you can make the variation you want

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'd agree with you if this were MKX, but MK11's variations feel like an afterthought. The MKX variations had purpose, you could see how they were designed to work even if they didn't always hit the mark. MK11 they just took everyone's best moves and sprinkled them out between different loadouts. So many of them have moves slapped on that seem pointless and don't work in tandem with the character's base kit. And that's the overall problem. MKX variations were designed, these were simply made.

Then once again you’re talking about the design choices for certain specific characters, rather than the variation system itself.

The fact that you respond to it differently in two different games underscores that point.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I think many people agree that variations are trash. All it does is fragment the character into 3 half assed, incomplete versions. I never wanted interactables in MK but we got that. Traits, on the other hand, would have been pretty sick, imho.

Imagine your character with NO VARIATIONS and an actual FULL MOVELIST. Now imagine them with an additional, unique trait that can completely change the character while it's active. I really loved the idea so much.

I mained Ares and Lobo in INJ1 and loved both their traits. Ares was garbage, but my god was he fun as hell to play. The sword had such amazing combo utility and just felt amazing to use. Lobo having to load his shotgun made me feel like I was actually playing the character and MY GOD did it feel good to land those shots with trait loaded. I won't get into INJ2, as it was just more of the same and handled just as well. A bunch of super unique, incredibly creative and varied traits that made the game feel so different and fun.

Would anyone else like to see traits in the next MK? I'd kill for them to be in instead of the variations. If so, what would your ideas be for your character's (or any MK characters) trait?

I imagine Shao Kahn's Dark Priest being part of his trait (but actually useful without a billion frames of startup). Or possibly his hammer being used like Ares' sword with a whole additional set of moves with cooldown after use.

I'm bored at work. Just humor me.

Traits usually just boiled down to specials with cooldowns. You kinda have that here with Terminator's grenades or even Erron's rifle that has it's own counter on the screen.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Then once again you’re talking about the design choices for certain specific characters, rather than the variation system itself.

The fact that you respond to it differently in two different games underscores that point.

The variation system lead to those choices though. These characters have what, like 9 additional special moves that can be used? All of them wildly different. How do you design a character that can either be a full on zoner or a complete rushdown monster? Imo, you don't. That's why many characters seem like blank slates.

 

[Vslayer]

I agree, variations are shit and should be taken out of the next game. Traits would be pretty cool to have, Ice Klone for Sub, Leg Grab for Sonya, Baton String for Cassie, etc.,

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The variation system lead to those choices though. These characters have what, like 9 additional special moves that can be used? All of them wildly different. How do you design a character that can either be a full on zoner or a complete rushdown monster? Imo, you don't. That's why many characters seem like blank slates.

Yet you have multiple examples of characters that can be played with very different playstyles. For example, Upgraded and 1st Round KO play almost nothing alike. Next Gen and Upgraded also play completely differently.

Look at D'Vorah -- she has a variation that's primary zoning and traps that plays nothing like her other. Warlock and Shang's 3rd variation play differently from each other (runaway zoning vs. more in your-face/mixup-heavy). Joker, etc.

So it goes to show that it's not the variation system itself, it's the design of specific characters vs. others.

 

[MerlinsBeard]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Injustice only has 3 normal attack button and then trait? As long as we get to keep our 4 normal attacks I would cool with it but if it would replace something I would have to say no.

 

[John Grizzly]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Injustice only has 3 normal attack button and then trait? As long as we get to keep our 4 normal attacks I would cool with it but if it would replace something I would have to say no.

A trait button could easily replace the absolutely worthless and downright confounding Flip Stance button.

 

[xenogorgeous]

A trait button could easily replace the absolutely worthless and downright confounding Flip Stance button.

yep .... this flip stance button seems as some kind of weirdo fetish that NRS developers keeping pushing in all modern MK games .... for some obscure reasons, haha .....

cut this crap off and replace this shit, NRS ! put something useful instead , on the next MK game, please ?

 

[MerlinsBeard]

A trait button could easily replace the absolutely worthless and downright confounding Flip Stance button.

I agree with that, but you know they would totally make someone's trait the ability to stance switch.

 

[NSR]

Technically speaking, traits were in MKX...that's how the variations are called internally

 

[xWildx]

That’s not the variation system, it’s just design choices. The system itself doesn’t force you to separate certain classic moves.

For example, what is Luohan Quan missing? That variation is classic Liu in a nutshell.

It’s entirely possible to have more ‘classic’ variations alongside others that do different things. As evidenced by Liu, Johnny Cage, Sub, Shang, and several others who either have the majority of their iconic moves in at least one of the variations, or as part of the base kit.

If you could pull your head out of NRS’s ass long enough you would see that that the poor design choices are a DIRECT result of them going for the variation system.

Instead of having a single, well-designed and fully equipped character we get awkward designs that have to be catered to three or more different play styles at once.

Now, in MKX this was handled a bit better. The game was at least designed to have three variations, planned and thought out, to change up the way the character played. However, even back then, we saw that NRS bit off more than they could chew and we ended up with useless variations and some questionable balance issues.

So what do they decide to do in MK11? Open it up even FURTHER, allow characters to be equipped with god knows what the player wants, all the while trying to keep balance within their base move set. They obviously realized how hard this would be to balance. Got scared. And now we’re left with three “variations” that don’t even fulfill a design purpose like they did in MKX.

This leads us to characters like Jacqui and Geras, who were given so many great tools to customize with that they have three different viable “variations,” meanwhile, characters like Kitana can barely scrape enough together to have one variation that can compete, because god forbid, we use a custom move in more than one “variation.”

After going back and watching INJ2 footage you can see how rich in design and strategy each character was. Compare that to MK11, where each character feels like throwing wooden blocks at each other.

A well designed character would allow for people to play them as they want naturally. We don’t need NRS to give us these neutered versions of classic MK characters that already decide it for us.

 

[ticklebandit!]

You do realize that a variation on average has no less moves than a variation-less NRS character (like MK9 or Injustice).

You’re not getting something ‘incomplete’.. You’re just getting additional options for the same thing you’d be getting anyway.

If you don’t like it, you can just pick your favorite variation and only play that one, and you literally lose nothing.

So tired of this argument. As if counting on paper how many special moves a character has is any indication of good gameplay or character design. Characters in mk9 and injustice FELT more well rounded than 95% of the variations in MKX and 11. It was up to the player to decide on their particular fighting style during the course of a match for any given character, the game didn't split your character into half assed archetypes. Imagine if Injustice 2 had variations, playing redhood and get your opponent into the corner and wanna do some tricky mine set ups?? NOPE, you picked the zoning Redhood variation and can only throw stuff from full screen. Thats how MK11 feels and why imo it is so incredibly boring.

I agree with OP, variations have completely neutered the MK series and i would LOVE for MK to replace them with traits.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Now, in MKX this was handled a bit better. The game was at least designed to have three variations, planned and thought out, to change up the way the character played. However, even back then, we saw that NRS bit off more than they could chew and we ended up with useless variations and some questionable balance issues.

So what do they decide to do in MK11? Open it up even FURTHER, allow characters to be equipped with god knows what the player wants, all the while trying to keep balance within their base move set. They obviously realized how hard this would be to balance. Got scared. And now we’re left with three “variations” that don’t even fulfill a design purpose like they did in MKX.

You’re making my point for me. It’s clear that you won’t mention all the MKX characters like Takeda, Mileena etc. that had multiple viable variations.

It should be a given that not every single variation in a game will be viable. Just like not every character will be top competitive tier in a fighting game. And people won’t use every super or assist a game where you’re allowed to select from multiple supers/assists. Sometimes a given option is simply superior or inferior.

But if it’s possible for the execution to be different between two games, then it’s clear that you are not really griping with the variation system itself -- but rather with the way it is used for certain characters.

Every example of a character that provides multiple useful/fun choices (and there are numerous, between both MK11 and MKX) is substantiation for the fact that the variation system itself actually can work well, and can give players choices where they wouldn’t normally have them.

 

[kevkopdx]

I love the trait system.. Zatanna was sooooo fun to play, trait opened up super zoning and new combos/movelist for burst of time, it was a blast. The trait system could basically be used to incorporate two variations into one.