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Question - Mileena The One Major Buff Mileena Needs. Do you agree?

Would plus on hit Low Sai across all variations to Mileena be a fair way to buff her?

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 43.5%
  • No

    Votes: 25 36.2%
  • How Plus?

    Votes: 14 20.3%

  • Total voters
    69

Method

Full Combo Punishable
Yup, 100% agree. I've been playing with Ravenous and the same thought occurred to me after a few hours in the lab. "This chick needs low sai."

In all honesty, it simply FEELS like a move that should be present across all variations.
 

Law Hero

There is a head on a pole behind you
I definitely like it, and I've always been curious as to why it hasn't ever been better on hit. Also love the idea of it being on all variation.

Since Piercing is her sai-based variation, I wish it had the ability to hold/delay normal sais or something so you could trick people a bit more, but I suppose that would be asking for too much. Regardless, I think your suggestion makes a lot of sense, and I hope we see a similar change to her frame data whenever the patches start hitting.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
The roll is not a proper tool to condition with there at +1.

Lets look at it this way,

Should I be using roll midscreen all the time in the neutral? I see Mileena players do it all the time online. I don't have to walk to midscreen and just stop moving lol, yes I have been conditioned to be wary of it, but I have all the other options my character has other than stand block to beat it. I just can't toss out my normals willy nilly.

After a +1 neutral roll, I still have all of those options to avoid the roll, I just can't toss out my normals willy nilly, but I can still gtfo of the way of it, or even jump at her. Then instead of you condition me with my own setup, I get to start conditioning YOU. We are literally back at the neutral game playing Rock Paper Scissors.

I'd rather just end my normal strings and be slightly negative and be back in the same rock paper scissor battle depending on my spacing.

TLDR, Gambling half my health for the +1 low sai right now, doesn't ever seem to be worth the extreme risk :(
Dude I'm pretty sure @GGA 16 Bit understands how frame data works lol
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Low sai is not kabals IAGB. If you get hit by low sai from full screen (hit) you deserve to get another sai tossed at you lol. Are you saying you couldn't block a low sai from full screen, or jump a low sai from full screen? How does that make her a super strong zoner? Even at midscreen if we account for travel frames and advantage she would at most net a jump in...AT MOST. How is that broken in this game?
this may sound weird i actually like the fact opponent isnt forced to block a sai after one hits full screen, if normal sai hits generally another straight one will knock them out of air if they tired jump.
after both sai and low sai hit full screen aswell telekick will blown up buttons or trying to jump to avoid next sai

also @BillStickers your last few comments just seem like your trying to troll this thread, chance never asked for low risk high reward zoning nor did he ask for free 50/50s or blockstrings from low sai on hit, cmon man, put down the pitchfork
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
this may sound weird i actually like the fact opponent isnt forced to block a sai after one hits full screen, if normal sai hits generally another straight one will knock them out of air if they tired jump.
after both sai and low sai hit full screen aswell telekick will blown up buttons or trying to jump to avoid next sai

also @BillStickers your last few comments just seem like your trying to troll this thread, chance never asked for low risk high reward zoning nor did he ask for free 50/50s or blockstrings from low sai on hit, cmon man, put down the pitchfork
He did, though. What else do you think would result from making low sai more +?
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
He did, though. What else do you think would result from making low sai more +?
low sai is -22 and gives 6%, that is high risk low reward. neither of those things were asked to be changed
he clearly stated between +5/+7, mileena does not get any form of free 50/50 off even the max plus 7

to echo chance...come on bill
 
D

Deleted member 9158

Guest
Honestly all she needs is for her F3 overhead to come out 10 frames faster. I remember it being like like 32 frames or something stupid like that
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
...............

For the millionth time, if you were to make F3 faster, then you CANNOT, repeat CANNOT expect them to leave the move safe or leave the damage output of the strings as they are. 2 things will have to happen with the overhead.

  • If F3 remains safe, but becomes faster, then the damage from the strings that begin with F3 would have to be toned down (as in not doing up to 39 or 43% with no meter) OR
  • If F3 & its strings keeps its damage with faster speed, then F3 would have to be made unsafe.
This would have be changed completely in order to keep a fair balance for other characters. lol I'm not saying that I don't want it to be changed because I would love a fast overhead, but people in here are wanting it changed as if they wouldn't touch anything else to balance her out with the cast. You have to be fair & think about everyone not just mileena.

Honestly, considering that there are characters who don't even HAVE an overhead, me as Mileena player isn't saying anything. At least I do have an overhead whether it be an EX Roll or not.
 
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PerezzGomeZ

I saw your girl staring homie
W
...............

For the millionth time, if you were to make F3 faster, then you CANNOT, repeat CANNOT expect them to leave the move safe or leave the damage output of the strings as it is. 2 things will have to happen with the overhead.

  • If F3 remains safe, but becomes faster, then the damage from the strings that begin with F3 would have to be toned down (as in not doing up to 39 or 43% with no meter) OR
  • If F3 & its strings keeps its damage, then F3 would have to be made unsafe.
This would have be changed completely in order to keep a fair balance for other characters. lol I'm not saying that I don't want it to be changed because I would love a fast overhead, but people in here are wanting it changed as if they wouldn't touch anything else to balance her out with the cast.

Honestly, considering that there are characters who don't even HAVE an overhead, me as Mileena player isn't saying anything. At least I do have an overhead whether it be an EX Roll or not.
exactly what im saying lol the move is safe and can lead up to 41% no bar,im fine with how it is
 

Arkayne

Jade Mod. Poison Ivy
Before I get 100 people in here telling me Mileena doesn't need buffs, please read this first. I am not asking for a safe 50/50 launcher! I am asking for a tool that is 100% punishable on block and fits her high risk high reward arch type.

Here is my proposed buff along with my reasons as to why it would round out the character in all three variations:

1) Make her Low Sai + on hit (around +5 to +7), while keeping it punishable on block. (high risk/reward)
2) Make it available in ALL varations.

Whoa whoa whoa, all variations, am I nuts!?

Just check out this breakdown for all three which I have spent time in.

Piercing
By far the most competitively ready Mileena variation. This variation DOMINATES the other two as far as usage and for good reason. She has access to low sai to low profile projectiles, has greater range, and in general is much easier to jump in and play. (you don't have to worry about positioning reversals as much as ravenous)

The only issue with piercing is that every single person is now learning that after blocking the lows in her string (mind you the ex overhead and the low portions are a 50/50) to stand up and negate all of her offensive pressure. Most of her strings at the end do leave her negative with the exception of 123 (which is high mid mid).

Well what will the + on hit low sai do? Plus on hit low sai adds another dimension to her mixups. It's not going to give you a combo, but it could guarantee you a d4/ex overhead mixup. For instance. Her 214 string which is high low oh is currently one of her main mixup strings. If we introduce the plus on block low sai her mixup potential turns into 2 -Ex Roll for a combo, 2 - Low Ball roll for a combo, 214 for the overhead ender or 21~low sai for the + on hit non comboable ender. The follow up to this would be a d3/d4 check, ex roll, or a string check. All of the options above end her pressure if guessed correctly, and in 3/4 of those situations nets you a full combo punish. Fair no? The plus on hit low sai simply gives her a way to maintain momentum.

All of Mileenas strings are quite slow in regards to other characters. She has her fastest high (2) at 10f and her fastest mid b1 (11f). She isn't going to get any mileage out of her one string overhead which is over 30f of startup.

You can see how this will help her neutral and pressure game tremendously without having to alter ANY of her normals.

Ravenous

By far the largest benefactor of plus on hit low sais being added to the variations.

Ravenous is an enigma to me. We have this great tool (low pounce) which we can use after conditioning opponents to block low...except we can't really condition opponents to block low AND use it in the neutral.

Some of the tick throw setups to actually land the pounce are:

d1 (11f)
d3 (10f)
f4 (12f)
2~tick (10f high but the next hit in the string is a low. The best mixup she has for pounce)
F12B4
B12

Now, the problem is. On all of those options the opponent literally has no reason to ever be blocking low. You can't condition them to. Even off of her poke tick setups, if you hit, the pounce whiffs, if it's block the opponent just has to counter poke as they normally would. There is no threat of the pounce. With the exception of 2~low pounce, you are never in a viable position to land the pounce. Even if F12~pounce tick throwed it would help tremendously, but it doesn't. I have no viable way to keep someone blocking low during a combo and have the pounce connect. The fear of EX ball is to great.

Well, what will plus on hit low sai do? Plus on hit low sai gives me a conditioning tool to FORCE opponents to start blocking low. For instance lets look at F12b4. The low hit in the b4 will force an opponent to block low, however afterwards they are free to start pressure or simply stand block and blow you up for attempting the pounce. If we added low sai into her mixup potential, the opponent now has to respect the option that at any point in my strings I could cancel into low sai and on hit be at plus frames or on block get blown the fuck up. It is an option to open up the pounce which would greatly aid the variation.

So instead of the setups above, you could have:

F12B4~low sai into another pressure string.
F12B4~Ex roll
21~low sai into pressure string
21~4
B12~low sai
B12~pounce (B12 becomes a great neutral tool)
etc.

Her whole game gets opened up and the character is allowed to breathe.

Ethereal

Ethereal while suffering from other problems gains from this as well. Being able to cancel into either the sai (which would force opponents not to press buttons) or the tele to get away/in would help her tremendously as well.

The low sai on hit+ would give her a F4/ex roll mixup or allow her to maintain block pressure into teleport run aways.

The low sai would also give her stronger zoning option within the variation. She wouldn't be just limited to a high projectile and could low profile projectiles being tossed at her while zipping around the screen. It would round out her variation and make it a hell of a lot more viable.

Those are my thoughts on why + on hit low sai (punishable on block) added to all of Mileena's variations would fill in her hoels and create a MUCH more well rounded fair and balanced character. She still has no safe 50/50, she is still high risk high reward, it fills in the wholes that pounce needs, it opens up more Ex ball mixups, but everything is still a hard read.

What do you think? Is this change fair and reasonable?

Is it not?

@colt Would you please consider?

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. in ALL departments. She definitely also needs some of her hitboxes fixed for sure with the attack grabs and stuff in combos, their hitboxes are wonky as hell.

*edit* I do also feel like none of her issues would be that problematic if Roll was Low like it should be. Maybe get rid of the Sai telling where you're going to go in Ethereal.
 
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GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
I'm not entirely against this because I do feel that Miley the Virus needs something, and this idea seems solid.
Except, some characters will have hell to pay trying to get in on that. I'd rather do something to her normals. Zoning is always a bad thing to buff in my opinion.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
To be honest, I'm fine with sacrificing my safety or my damage output from f3 I'm exchange for a fast overhead. If you complain about safety... well she's always been high risk reward so that would mean that she's not your type of character. You wouldn't even think about the overhead being unsafe if you score a hit. Even still, like I was saying before, Kitana's best overhead is her X-Ray. So I'm not going to keep mentioning it because I'm thankful that I do have an overhead as mileena.

Also, she's not as bad as people are making her out to be, just her normals are slow so she can't go into pressure right off the top