Question The Official Deathstroke Forums Normalization Thread (suggestions)

[Red Reaper]

To be fair its hard to pin someone down after a trait is on. I use that unblockable setup all the time though. Does anyone here zone with his 3 hit string with the mid bullet from across screen?

It's jumpable and telegraphed thanx to the first hit wiffing. Then once that wiffs it has a lot of recovery.

 

[Nonameformedude]

To be fair its hard to pin someone down after a trait is on. I use that unblockable setup all the time though. Does anyone here zone with his 3 hit string with the mid bullet from across screen?

Out of d2xxtrait you get a free jump in on anyone who cant do a wake up attack that will reach you. If they dont anti air even on block you go into 132. If they didnt push block they eat the 30% from bnb even if they blocked. If you know your opponent is confident in their anti airs, just do the set up then backdash and shoot guns. You could even NJ to fake them out and start your zoning that way. Unless its a MU where DS's zoning can be completely avoided, his trait is his GREATEST tool imo

 

[M2Dave]

Isn't it a little unfair to compare an average trait to one of the best ones? DS' trait isn't going to win "best trait of the year" or anything anytime soon, but I do think it is at least a little bit underrated

I did not compare anything. Some fools in this thread did.

I will tell you what will happen exactly six months from now on. I will be right and 90% of this forum will have to apologize for being wrong about Deathstroke.

 

[NYCj360]

It's jumpable and telegraphed thanx to the first hit wiffing. Then once that wiffs it has a lot of recovery.

oh damn really? i use it randomly and it works pretty damn often lol. It doesn't chip or anything but i don't see the risk in using it if you close out the string.

 

[Red Reaper]

oh damn really? i use it randomly and it works pretty damn often lol. It doesn't chip or anything but i don't see the risk in using it if you close out the string.

Maybe it's just problematic against airdash/teleport characters.

 

[Duck Nation]

Out of d2xxtrait you get a free jump in on anyone who cant do a wake up attack that will reach you. If they dont anti air even on block you go into 132. If they didnt push block they eat the 30% from bnb even if they blocked. If you know your opponent is confident in their anti airs, just do the set up then backdash and shoot guns. You could even NJ to fake them out and start your zoning that way. Unless its a MU where DS's zoning can be completely avoided, his trait is his GREATEST tool imo

What you keep failing to do is actually quantify why using his trait setups is any better than going into a 50/50. Your individual data points are correct, but you're disregarding or outright ignorant of a lot more points that outweigh what you're leaning on. Using trait setups means sacrificing guaranteed damage, to go into setups more escapable, avoidable, easier to see and that in the very best situation bring you even with doing a basic 50/50 in terms of damage gain and meter cost. Overall, the options are just plain worse. The ignorant person here is you, so I reiterate: get out.

 

[Nonameformedude]

What you keep failing to do is actually quantify why using his trait setups is any better than going into a 50/50. Your individual data points are correct, but you're disregarding or outright ignorant of a lot more points that outweigh what you're leaning on. Using trait setups means sacrificing guaranteed damage, to go into setups more escapable, avoidable, easier to see and that in the very best situation bring you even with doing a basic 50/50 in terms of damage gain and meter cost. Overall, the options are just plain worse. The ignorant person here is you, so I reiterate: get out.

Really, because I think that sacrficing a small amount of damage to get trait up safely is extremely practical. You are implying tht you dont zone with him at all. That in any given match you dont ever use his guna because they are useless. Now if thats not true, and you do use his guns, then why would you not want to make them unblockable if you can do so safely. Your just sticking to the same jaded thoughts that has m2d giving up a character before he realizes the potential it has.

 

[Duck Nation]

What I'm doing is telling you the fucking reality because I play the character and know what I'm talking about. What you are doing, by contrast, is telling character specialists who've been using him since day one that they don't know what they're doing. Can you even comprehend how stupid you sound or how incredibly insulting that is?

How about next time you have a problem with your home, you stand over the shoulder of the person you called to fix it and tell him everything he's doing is wrong. I bet dollars to donuts you'd get punched in the mouth.

 

[Duck Nation]

And you still haven't indicated in any way shape or form why ever using trait setups would be better than a full damage combo into 50/50. It turns out, I actually know situations where you might want to do it, but they're limited in scope and far outweighed by the times you'd want to use a conventional setup. Let's see if you can get anything right!

 

[ryublaze]

I hope colt didn't take my suggestion about giving sword spin consistent advantage on hit. That was before the actual spin vortex with d2 xx spin was found. Although, I'm not against any DS buffs.

 

[Duck Nation]

I hope colt didn't take my suggestion about giving sword spin consistent advantage on hit. That was before the actual spin vortex with d2 xx spin was found. Although, I'm not against any DS buffs.

Let's be real here anyways, because it's kind of been forgotten in the time since it happened - they could revert DS to the place where he was pre-nerf and he'd be completely fine. What they did to him was completely unnecessary and didn't serve to help people who lost to him almost at all, but it did damage him notably against a lot of characters. It was a nerf for online whiners and nothing else, and anything they give us back is only going to put us back in the top 10 at best and no better. The people he beats have issues independent of Deathstroke.

 

[Mikman360]

I'm sorry J360, I respect your views and I'm certain you are a great DS player, but I refuse to agree with you on the fact that DS' trait is "fucking bananas."

It's got such a huge startup time, ridiculous actually, that when used in the raw is suicidal. Of course, no one in their right mind would do that. Outside of that, we have these semi-decent setups that just BARELY work, and are matchup specific. With techroll+wakeup, there are ways to stop it.

Even then, once you get it up, you are NOT at an advantage. Yes, I am AWARE that it can be used in conjunction with 132 for an unblockable string, but how exactly are you setting that up? You are disadvantaged due to the time it takes to use the trait, and 1 has such short range. THEN you have to set up 1. What's a reliable way to set up pressure? Ji2 or F3 are decent ways. Alright, read your opponent's offense, use either move, then do 132. Oh what? You ran out of time because the trait is on cooldown now? Great...

The damage sacrifice is actually pretty significant because not only do you lose damage, you lose low shots chip on wakeup OR wakeup pressure (which DS is pretty darn good at and should NOT be ignored). Basically, you're not ending your combo with Flip, and Flip is a gdlk ender.

Back to 132 real quick, you DO realize 1 hits high right? The opponent can duck under 1 and D2 you for a combo before you get your unblockable string. D2 is just the universal punish too. Flash will get a D12 MB Kick combo and take off 40% of your HP.

Let's not forget that atrocious debuff after the trait ends.

The best thing about trait is that stupid glitch in which MB Quick Fire hits 90% of the cast while crouching. Saying it's one of his best tools or that it's "bananas" is ludicrous. And take it from a guy who WANTS to like the trait. I've done more to figure out setups than a lot of people, and have tried it in many matches. I've managed to get the unblockable 132 setup either once or twice in all my thousands of games. This kind of trait looks good on paper, but it just doesn't work all that well against seasoned opponents.

Speaking of which, let's just observe its tournament use real quick. Aris, one of the most successful DS players HATES the trait. He thinks the startup is too long, and never uses it. Slips, the man who took 4th at that tournament with DS did NOT use the trait EVER in his road to 4th (or if he did, I didn't notice). See a pattern here? They're not using it because it's "underrated" or "unexplored." They avoid it because it's just NOT worth it.

End rant >_>
Might I mention right now that this thread has gone so far off the road that it doesn't believe it's in America anymore. It turned into a "m2dave whines about Low Shots" and "TRAIT = GOOD/BAD/PRINGLES" thread.

On topic... I'll try to work out a good combo thread by tomorrow. No guarantees, but I can't get one going tonight sadly.

 

[Duck Nation]

Let's be real here anyways, because it's kind of been forgotten in the time since it happened - they could revert DS to the place where he was pre-nerf and he'd be completely fine. What they did to him was completely unnecessary and didn't serve to help people who lost to him almost at all, but it did damage him notably against a lot of characters. It was a nerf for online whiners and nothing else, and anything they give us back is only going to put us back in the top 10 at best and no better. The people he beats have issues independent of Deathstroke.

I'm sorry J360, I respect your views and I'm certain you are a great DS player, but I refuse to agree with you on the fact that DS' trait is "fucking bananas."

It's got such a huge startup time, ridiculous actually, that when used in the raw is suicidal. Of course, no one in their right mind would do that. Outside of that, we have these semi-decent setups that just BARELY work, and are matchup specific. With techroll+wakeup, there are ways to stop it.

Even then, once you get it up, you are NOT at an advantage. Yes, I am AWARE that it can be used in conjunction with 132 for an unblockable string, but how exactly are you setting that up? You are disadvantaged due to the time it takes to use the trait, and 1 has such short range. THEN you have to set up 1. What's a reliable way to set up pressure? Ji2 or F3 are decent ways. Alright, read your opponent's offense, use either move, then do 132. Oh what? You ran out of time because the trait is on cooldown now? Great...

The damage sacrifice is actually pretty significant because not only do you lose damage, you lose low shots chip on wakeup OR wakeup pressure (which DS is pretty darn good at and should NOT be ignored). Basically, you're not ending your combo with Flip, and Flip is a gdlk ender.

Back to 132 real quick, you DO realize 1 hits high right? The opponent can duck under 1 and D2 you for a combo before you get your unblockable string. D2 is just the universal punish too. Flash will get a D12 MB Kick combo and take off 40% of your HP.

Let's not forget that atrocious debuff after the trait ends.

The best thing about trait is that stupid glitch in which MB Quick Fire hits 90% of the cast while crouching. Saying it's one of his best tools or that it's "bananas" is ludicrous. And take it from a guy who WANTS to like the trait. I've done more to figure out setups than a lot of people, and have tried it in many matches. I've managed to get the unblockable 132 setup either once or twice in all my thousands of games. This kind of trait looks good on paper, but it just doesn't work all that well against seasoned opponents.

Speaking of which, let's just observe its tournament use real quick. Aris, one of the most successful DS players HATES the trait. He thinks the startup is too long, and never uses it. Aris, the man who took 4th at that tournament with DS did NOT use the trait EVER in his road to 4th (or if he did, I didn't notice). See a pattern here? They're not using it because it's "underrated" or "unexplored." They avoid it because it's just NOT worth it.

End rant >_>
Might I mention right now that this thread has gone so far off the road that it doesn't believe it's in America anymore. It turned into a "m2dave whines about Low Shots" and "TRAIT = GOOD/BAD/PRINGLES" thread.

On topic... I'll try to work out a good combo thread by tomorrow. No guarantees, but I can't get one going tonight sadly.

colt

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

LOL @ players who still don't know how good Deathstroke's rush down potential is.He has F3, B2, and B1U2. Just those three strings can drive your opponent up the wall.He doesn't need to rely on his guns(which he cant anymore)NRS nerfing DS was probably for the best because it helped me learn what more this character had to offer other than zoning.This character is still possibly Top 10.Get out of the corner and learn how to open your opponent up by using his many mix ups.

 

[Duck Nation]

Fight a good Flash, Raven, Nightwing, Aquaman, Batman or Batgirl and try telling me DS has no problems.

 

[NYCj360]

I'm sorry J360, I respect your views and I'm certain you are a great DS player, but I refuse to agree with you on the fact that DS' trait is "fucking bananas."

It's got such a huge startup time, ridiculous actually, that when used in the raw is suicidal. Of course, no one in their right mind would do that. Outside of that, we have these semi-decent setups that just BARELY work, and are matchup specific. With techroll+wakeup, there are ways to stop it.

Even then, once you get it up, you are NOT at an advantage. Yes, I am AWARE that it can be used in conjunction with 132 for an unblockable string, but how exactly are you setting that up? You are disadvantaged due to the time it takes to use the trait, and 1 has such short range. THEN you have to set up 1. What's a reliable way to set up pressure? Ji2 or F3 are decent ways. Alright, read your opponent's offense, use either move, then do 132. Oh what? You ran out of time because the trait is on cooldown now? Great...

The damage sacrifice is actually pretty significant because not only do you lose damage, you lose low shots chip on wakeup OR wakeup pressure (which DS is pretty darn good at and should NOT be ignored). Basically, you're not ending your combo with Flip, and Flip is a gdlk ender.

Back to 132 real quick, you DO realize 1 hits high right? The opponent can duck under 1 and D2 you for a combo before you get your unblockable string. D2 is just the universal punish too. Flash will get a D12 MB Kick combo and take off 40% of your HP.

Let's not forget that atrocious debuff after the trait ends.

The best thing about trait is that stupid glitch in which MB Quick Fire hits 90% of the cast while crouching. Saying it's one of his best tools or that it's "bananas" is ludicrous. And take it from a guy who WANTS to like the trait. I've done more to figure out setups than a lot of people, and have tried it in many matches. I've managed to get the unblockable 132 setup either once or twice in all my thousands of games. This kind of trait looks good on paper, but it just doesn't work all that well against seasoned opponents.

Speaking of which, let's just observe its tournament use real quick. Aris, one of the most successful DS players HATES the trait. He thinks the startup is too long, and never uses it. Aris, the man who took 4th at that tournament with DS did NOT use the trait EVER in his road to 4th (or if he did, I didn't notice). See a pattern here? They're not using it because it's "underrated" or "unexplored." They avoid it because it's just NOT worth it.

End rant >_>
Might I mention right now that this thread has gone so far off the road that it doesn't believe it's in America anymore. It turned into a "m2dave whines about Low Shots" and "TRAIT = GOOD/BAD/PRINGLES" thread.

On topic... I'll try to work out a good combo thread by tomorrow. No guarantees, but I can't get one going tonight sadly.

i don't think its good just because of 132 lol. I don't even include that, but in certain matchups its absolutely retarded. When the debuff occurs its time to be defensive with his great anti airs and up close game. Hes not the greatest character ever but there are work arounds on his start up. We have to stop looking for guaranteed setups and start looking for "ideal" situations to use it in. And btw i played the game for 5 days and got 13th at ect using the shitty trait. It's not a crutch but its a crazy trump card that requires risk, it is worth the reward.

 

[NYCj360]

I realize that i won't be able to convince anyone so i won't even bother, i've been a DS advocate from day 1 pre and post patch. The players that i've played know exactly how annoying this character can be because of the trait. In due time everyone will just step their game up and realize the worth of the trait.

 

[Duck Nation]

More likely is that people will learn the setups and they'll get blown up more often than not, and we'll be right back where we are now. Anything rarely used can be hard to deal with due to simple lack of knowledge or practice. Doesn't follow that it's a really stable or optimal strategy.

Did you want me to make a matchup thread? I can always just start it barebones and fill it out later - kind of how it's going with the current one, except that I need to call for mod help to update the first post of that thread.

 

[Mikman360]

Couple of things, I just want to mention that my last post was more directed towards that guy with the Lobo avatar, not you J360 (I know you weren't referring to 132, he was). Also, I meant to say Slips, not Aris the second time.

If it's working for you, then that's fine, but I feel like you could possibly be better off just for for straight damage and HKDs rather than chances at an unblockable 6%.

Back on topic once again (since this discussion is completely veering off now), Duck Nation, I say you do the 1 character discussion at a time thing. I've seen it work before, and it actually gets the thread filled out, unlike a lot of our matchup threads that are missing a bunch of characters.

 

[NYCj360]

Yeah duck you can start a new matchup thread, ill sticky yours, and mik start another combo thread and ill merge the old one with yours so that you can edit the original post.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

I'd just like to point out for the trait set up discussion regarding using 132.... it's completely avoidable and/or interruptable. And even if they JUST get hit with the 3, then you can't combo after. Then you're debuffing by the time you open them up again....

Seriously. His trait is a complete waste against anyone who has even half a clue about the DS MU.....
/off-topic

Honestly, some updated threads that can actually be maintained and updated really is a great idea and props to J360, Duck Nation, and Mikman360 for taking on the task of helping level up the DS Forum

 

[That__John__Guy]

One way to clean things up might be to have a separate "You Are All Fools For Still Playing the Non-Viable Deathstroke Who Is Worthless (Or Mid-Tier At Best) Due to the Unfair Low Gunshots Nerf Because Now He is 4-6 Against Most Top Tier Characters You'd Be Sure To Encounter in a Tournament, So Pick Zod or Someone Else" thread.

Then it could be the topic of one thread, instead of being the topic of every Deathstroke thread.