General/Other - Mileena The Mileena General Discussion Thread (All Variations)

[Damonta]

I already posted this in the combo thread, but I'm still new here so I think it'll be better off in this topic...
After a blocked 123 string I tend to do a crouching 4, which then leaves them at a good distance to further pressure them with f23 (4 or ex roll mix-up), or nj.p if your anticipate that they'll jump forward after that.
I also think that f344 is underrated. You can get a decent combo afterward with a roll, you get a mix-up if you have meter for an ex roll, and it's safe Vs a lot of things as far as I know (at least if your opponent is a new to the match-up and I imagine they don't see that string very often).
Also, a tip for people struggling to consistently do b3 after a roll; hold the back as early as possible and just time the kick. I found that pressing back and 3 together sometimes resulted in a neutral 3 occuring, at least in an online environment
Off-topic; How do some of you guys get those variation title/sigs under your username?

 

[JDE]

She's not bad, but requires a lot of thought and good play to max her potential and win due to her high risk moves. But because of that every win feels quite rewarding.

It's honestly... getting annoying. Trying to keep quiet, learning the game, & stay positive, but all everyone else wants to do is complain about what she doesn't have instead of looking for productive ways to make up for her weaknesses. The game is still new. It's like, I'm here to learn characters with everyone else & participate in events, but when you find something or post something that may be useful, it gets rejected with negativity. Some people don't even TRY to see how good the character really is. Some don't even STUDY or look for themselves, let alone understand why characters are buffed or nerfed. Every thread I've gone to has been nothing but negativity, while shitting on players who are trying to learn the characters anyway. You do more harm than good, not only stirring people away from the character that they like, but drive them away from the forums in general.

"Kitana sucks! Really bad! No mixups! Overly defensive!" She "is" defensive. She does really solid damage. Yes, she's not as good as she was in MK9, but still good. Her overhead is slow, but not as slow as Mileena's. People are wanting her to have 50/50s with her zoning because characters like Ermac & the cast in general have them.

"Such & such sucks! No mixups!"

"Mileena is sooo bad in this game!" , yet she has a lot of tools to get in, anti-air tools, air to airs, good ways to punish & get in. Not to mention fairly decent knockdowns. Admittedly, I 1st thought the character wasn't doing enough for me to keep looking at her, but it turns out, she's a lot more viable than what I thought. She has more going for her other than her slow overhead & her safety issues. I personally liked Piercings & Ethereal mainly because of the cooler look of her mask, but Ravenous & Piercings are nice. I still want to look into Ethereal because it may still be viable. The only thing that I really wish for is her to have a faster true overhead.

Sonic Fox & others who use her may just feel that she doesn't suit their needs. He still uses her. I'm sure he'll come around with her. I don't want to sound like I'm mad or ranting or anything. It's just that I want to come to people who are on the same page rather than assuming a character & the game in general is bad after only nearly 2 weeks of playing it. This isn't directed at you, btw. Just in general.

 

[Damonta]

I still personally don't see the value in Ethereal. I wouldn't even call what you can do with the Fade gimmick a "reset" tbh. The Fade recovery is too slow and her only non-meter overhead is too slow to quickly pick someone back up. Not much of a viable "reset" if your only option after purposely dropping your combo is a mid or low (unless you have meter), especially when your opponent is going to expect these sorts of shennanigans from you the moment they see "Ethereal" being selected.

Admittedly I've only spent a small amount of time messing around with the variation, although I did try to test stuff that was possible a little out-of-the-box.

In my opinion Ravenous is the best. Low pounce covers for that lack of a non-meter overhead. It puts the fear of crouching into the opponent at all times, making it easier to condition him/her.

 

[Whole milk]

She's not bad, but requires a lot of thought and good play to max her potential and win due to her high risk moves. But because of that every win feels quite rewarding.

I completely agree, people should stop shitting on every character. Just learn the game and focus on the good moves instead of bitching on the bad ones.
Every character has pros and cons it's just what character do you WANT to play.

 

[JDE]

Not sure if anyone found this, yet, but Ryujin & I are exchanging notes on Facebook. What was discussed was a corner vortex with Piercings. Once I land this consistently, I'll share a video doing it. For now, the input is:
Corner Vortex with Milenna in Piercing

If you roll and end up in the corner you can walk back across your opponent and do b+1,2,1+3,d,d+2
After this, you're close enough to no longer need a run to use advantage like you normally would after her B121+3 combo.

You can b+1+2, or (may need a small walk in) f+4, or f+3 (you will need them to be scared of you to get this to land lol) or jump in 3 or 4 (then convert air to air combo if they jumped)

Ryujin told me that he got 35% from B12 meterless, but not sure about the corner cross up does. He said that the advantage was enough to use F3. F4 is something else to keep in mind.

 

[Whole milk]

^^ Me like! def gonna try it

 

[TheGabStandard]

As summed up by @Remedy944, @JDE and @Whole milk it is frustrating to see people complain about characters sucking/not viable with the constant reference to 50/50s and safety being the be-all and end-all of character viability. I'll admit there has been days where I wonder why Mileena works the way she does compared to other members of the cast (her teleport kick for one) but despite her flaws I love the character. I will continue using her and will compete to the best of my ability with her as my main.

For those people who say "X character sucks". If that's your opinion then fine but constant negativity harms the game. It deters people from trying out characters that might have their interest, therefore preventing development of the character, matchups and playstyles. Plus the game is only two weeks old. I repeat, Two. Weeks. Old. There are some characters that take AGES before their potential is reached so saying someone who sucks now might not be the case tomorrow, a week, a month from now or six months later (ignoring buffs). Something could be discovered that could completely change a character's "viability", and even if nothing is discovered I don't believe any character sucks as anyone can be really dangerous in the hands of a smart dedicated player. So people should continue to keep playing characters and focus on the positives looking for things instead of complaining and asking for buffs. If you are competing and want to use a better character then supposed "unviable character" then fine, but don't deter others from using a character if they have genuine interest in playing him/her.

The 50/50 argument is a little tiresome as well. If you go by the fact that an overhead and a low starter is the true definition of a 50/50 then yes Mileena doesn't really have a meterless 50/50 as her overhead is too slow. But when you break her offence down then Mileena's mixups, when she has meter become....I guess what I can call soft 50/50s. Taking a string like F12, is it not a guess for the defender to either block low for B4 or block high for EX roll, therefore a 50/50? The same thing could be applied to standing 2 (1 for low or EX roll for overhead), F34 (4 for low or EX Roll) and F23 (4 for low or EX Roll).

So generally Mileena is not a bad character but requires work to get the most out of her. She has some good tools and I feel she is a character that excels when you get into your opponent's head with her mixup game albeit a very high risk one. Cancelling strings to EX Roll early is a risky but good tactic to mess with your opponent, especially if you can maintain your play where you always have 1 bar of meter. I apologise for the long post but after seeing @Pterodactyl post earlier, something inside me switched and I felt something needed to be said. It's not directed at the Mileena Movement, its more a general trend I'm seeing across the forums and its frustrating to see this.

TL;DR summary: stay positive and keep playing

 

[TheGabStandard]

Not sure if anyone found this, yet, but Ryujin & I are exchanging notes on Facebook. What was discussed was a corner vortex with Piercings. Once I land this consistently, I'll share a video doing it. For now, the input is:
Corner Vortex with Milenna in Piercing

If you roll and end up in the corner you can walk back across your opponent and do b+1,2,2+4,d,d+2

The combo above. Is that meant to be B12 1+3, DD2?

 

[JDE]

The combo above. Is that meant to be B12 1+3, DD2?

Yeah, I just edited. My bad.

 

[james1926]

Guys, I'm not sure if Mileena is bad or not, it's too soon to start claiming things, however, what I'm sure of is that ravenous and ethereal are TOO inferior to piercing.

 

[Remedy944]

@theGabStandard I was just looking at the online leaderboards and the #1 ranked player uses Mileena. Anbu_NamtO. Are you familiar with this guy? 488-30 albeit online, still impressive.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Guys, I'm not sure if Mileena is bad or not, it's too soon to start claiming things, however, what I'm sure of is that ravenous and ethereal are TOO inferior to piercing.

Ethereal yes, Ravenous I don't think is that inferior

@theGabStandard I was just looking at the online leaderboards and the #1 ranked player uses Mileena. Anbu_NamtO. Are you familiar with this guy? 488-30 albeit online, still impressive.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with this guy

 

[JDE]

Mileena is not bad in this game imo. People who are saying it are hung up on how she is starting out & how she was in MK9. It's going to take time to get used to. People in general want things to be easy, but in reality, this game is made for people to be character specialist.

Perfect Legend, also said that Mileena is not bad. How many characters have decent tools to get in? How many characters can move in & out, while having an easy way to punish projectiles? At 1st, she gave me a bad impression, but now that I've gone back & looked at her, she can be anything but bad. Where she ends up on the tier list is debatable, but her overall character dynamic is not bad. Her being able to get in with telekick & her ground ball with some of her other tools are the trade off of her being unsafe. She's basically a character who hits & runs (zones & keeps meter after getting the lifelead).

I do agree with the overhead being slow, & Ethereal shenanigans being lackluster , maybe her forward walkspeed too, but the character overall isn't bad.

 

[james1926]

Ethereal yes, Ravenous I don't think is that inferior

I mean you are losing:

1) her best footsie tool (11 frames b12),
2) her best string on knock downs (f12-mixup) - on ravenous first hit of f1 will whiff so can't break armoured wake ups,
3) ex low sai for mixups (It's not that good but it can be usable sometimes),
4) zoning with low sai,

to get what? 2% more damage on combos?

The high pounce that's -7 on block does not make much difference. It's not worth to use it after f23 to replace the low that's -5. And low pounce can't even be used after that string for a meterless mixup, it will whiff even if the opponent blocks low. The only thing that I find worth it on ravenous is the 20% safer (-7 on block and interruptible) low (f4-high pounce extended).

My opinion is, the only way to make ravenous worthwhile is to make low pounce an overhead instead of a throw.

 

[Sultani]

Thoughts on mileena as the game is progressing:

I am finding that she actually is BETTER when your opponent recognizes the properties of your strings, not worse... this is why.

We all know that all of her complete strings can be blocked by crouching and then standing up to anticipate ex roll.

This brought up the point about using partial strings in order to trick your opponent into blocking the anticipated low attack and cancelling into ex roll to catch them crouch blocking.

The point is, with a meter bar, strings like f12b4, b21, 21, f34, and f23 are all actually 50/50s if cancelled at the right time.

Your opponent knowing when a low hit is coming actually helps you.

A section has been added to the OP in the combo thread showing the mix up options. There may still be hope for her.

 

[Johnny San]

on ravenous first hit of f1 will whiff so can't break armoured wake ups

Have you actually tested this thoroughly? It works for all wakeups I've encountered.

 

[Squeaker101]

Hi.

Any general playstyles for each variation? I was messing around with Ethereal, but since I'm a scrublord I only came up with a ~24% combo. Also, is there any footage? Combo videos or tourney?

 

[TheGabStandard]

Hi.

Any general playstyles for each variation? I was messing around with Ethereal, but since I'm a scrublord I only came up with a ~24% combo. Also, is there any footage? Combo videos or tourney?

Regarding Ethereal I did make a few combo videos in the early days with damage ranging from 26-37%. However, you can probably get more damage now so I'm going to revisit them and post some in the near future for the OP.

 

[james1926]

Have you actually tested this thoroughly? It works for all wakeups I've encountered.

All? So you don't play Scorpions? Ok, I will check it further later, maybe the issue was that with ravenous you need to be as closer as possible, while on piercing you don't have to.

 

[Arkayne]

I mean you are losing:

1) her best footsie tool (11 frames b12),
2) her best string on knock downs (f12-mixup) - on ravenous first hit of f1 will whiff so can't break armoured wake ups,
3) ex low sai for mixups (It's not that good but it can be usable sometimes),
4) zoning with low sai,

to get what? 2% more damage on combos?

The high pounce that's -7 on block does not make much difference. It's not worth to use it after f23 to replace the low that's -5. And low pounce can't even be used after that string for a meterless mixup, it will whiff even if the opponent blocks low. The only thing that I find worth it on ravenous is the 20% safer (-7 on block and interruptible) low (f4-high pounce extended).

My opinion is, the only way to make ravenous worthwhile is to make low pounce an overhead instead of a throw.

1.) B 1,2 is still the same frames and just as good in Ravenous
2.) It works on wakeup and I havent had problems hitting with it.
3.) Ex Low Sai is unsafe on hit and block... : |
4.) Low is WAY too easily reacted to.

Ravenous is her best man. I posted a huge post about this some pages back and me and a few others had a big discussion on this.

High Pounce hits HIGH and LOW, So High pounce is a mixup in it's own. Also Low and High Pounce anti-air and catch people jumping out.





Outside of this point though...

I think I've compiled a matchup chart for Mileena that I feel is pretty accurate which I'm putting together now, and I also am working on some Matchup Videos for her as well.


I honestly feel like Mileena is simply Mid Tier, I just did a Mortal Kombat Podcast with The "PowerUp Tournament Organizer" ( The First Event for MK9 Upon release) I talked about her a lot on there as well but I'll state everything here as well.

Mileena needs help in a few categories. I think her specials should be unsafe since they are still strange to punish as they were in MK9.

If I got the chance to propose nerfs and buffs here's what I would say about every Variation.

General:
- D+4 needs to be Cancellable especially since it's like +12 on hit why wouldn't it be special cancellable?
- Telekick should NOT be punishable on hit.
- B+3 should forcestand

Ravenous :
- Give Bite More Range and Active Frames or Increase the active hit box of the move.
- She needs an alternate ender in the chain grab that either A. Leaves them standing but in a stun state or B. Leaves them closer to Mileena.

Piercing :

- High Sai needs to be Faster or Recover Quicker and do less damage
- Sai Stab Command chains should do like 2 seconds of bleeding damage to the character impaled.

Ethereal :

- Make the Sai Disappear when it hits the ground that way it can ACTUALLY be used as a Mixup. So that way the Opponent ACTUALLY has to pay attention to where you threw the Sai at.

- Give her a cancel so that if she doesn't want to go to said place she can reappear in place.


Also a seperate note; I'll share something awesome that I didn't want to put out yet but I will.

On Knockdown in the corner F,3,4,3 will bodycrossup and make wakeup reversals whiff and/or beat them out. Very specific timing for certain characters. If you just do F3,4 depending on the wakeup situation it will make the opponents move whiff and go the opposite direction and you recover a lot faster using F,3,4.

 

[Damonta]

1.) B 1,2 is still the same frames and just as good in Ravenous
2.) It works on wakeup and I havent had problems hitting with it.
3.) Ex Low Sai is unsafe on hit and block... : |
4.) Low is WAY too easily reacted to.

Ravenous is her best man. I posted a huge post about this some pages back and me and a few others had a big discussion on this.

High Pounce hits HIGH and LOW, So High pounce is a mixup in it's own. Also Low and High Pounce anti-air and catch people jumping out.





Outside of this point though...

I think I've compiled a matchup chart for Mileena that I feel is pretty accurate which I'm putting together now, and I also am working on some Matchup Videos for her as well.


I honestly feel like Mileena is simply Mid Tier, I just did a Mortal Kombat Podcast with The "PowerUp Tournament Organizer" ( The First Event for MK9 Upon release) I talked about her a lot on there as well but I'll state everything here as well.

Mileena needs help in a few categories. I think her specials should be unsafe since they are still strange to punish as they were in MK9.

If I got the chance to propose nerfs and buffs here's what I would say about every Variation.

General:
- D+4 needs to be Cancellable especially since it's like +12 on hit why wouldn't it be special cancellable?
- Telekick should NOT be punishable on hit.
- B+3 should forcestand

Ravenous :
- Give Bite More Range and Active Frames or Increase the active hit box of the move.
- She needs an alternate ender in the chain grab that either A. Leaves them standing but in a stun state or B. Leaves them closer to Mileena.

Piercing :

- High Sai needs to be Faster or Recover Quicker and do less damage
- Sai Stab Command chains should do like 2 seconds of bleeding damage to the character impaled.

Ethereal :

- Make the Sai Disappear when it hits the ground that way it can ACTUALLY be used as a Mixup. So that way the Opponent ACTUALLY has to pay attention to where you threw the Sai at.

- Give her a cancel so that if she doesn't want to go to said place she can reappear in place.


Also a seperate note; I'll share something awesome that I didn't want to put out yet but I will.

On Knockdown in the corner F,3,4,3 will bodycrossup and make wakeup reversals whiff and/or beat them out. Very specific timing for certain characters. If you just do F3,4 depending on the wakeup situation it will make the opponents move whiff and go the opposite direction and you recover a lot faster using F,3,4.

Yeah, I noticed the F34 thing in practice last night. An interesting note; even though you're facing backwards after the side switch, for some wonky hitbox reason the 4 hits behind her and you cancel straight into a roll (autocorrects) for a full combo.

 

[Damonta]

These are a changes that I'd propose for Mileena

General:
- Telekick safer on hit
- F3 start-up frames reduced
- Last hit of F343 overhead
- D1 hitbox increased
- D4 cancellable
- B22 safe
- B12 hitbox improved for juggles (non-Piercing)

Ravenous
- Ending a low/high pounce chain before the final part leaves the opponent next to Mileena (no more roll away animation)
- Low Pounce treated as an overhead when cancelled into
- Start-up of B12,3+4 pounce reduced so it is more viable in combos
- B12,3+4 leaves the opponent standing next to Mileena if not extended


Piercing;
- High Sai damage increased
- Low Sai used in the air throws a said at a downward angle
- Low Sai safe on hit
- B12,3+4 extended damage reduced, but leaves a bleed affect on the opponent
- D2 animation changed to now uppercut with a Sai for extended range

Ethereal;
- No longer grab vulnerable during Fade
- Ex Fade reworked. Press R2 during the throw animation to delay the Fade's vanish indefinitely, via block button, allowing for continued action until the button is released, instantly cancelling whatever animation you were in at the time

 

[JDE]

I can do the corner setup on a more consistent basis now in piercings. The video was corrupted when I tried to upload it last night (on Xbox One). I will have it uploaded sometime today.

 

[Sultani]

1.) B 1,2 is still the same frames and just as good in Ravenous
2.) It works on wakeup and I havent had problems hitting with it.
3.) Ex Low Sai is unsafe on hit and block... : |
4.) Low is WAY too easily reacted to.

Ravenous is her best man. I posted a huge post about this some pages back and me and a few others had a big discussion on this.

High Pounce hits HIGH and LOW, So High pounce is a mixup in it's own. Also Low and High Pounce anti-air and catch people jumping out.





Outside of this point though...

I think I've compiled a matchup chart for Mileena that I feel is pretty accurate which I'm putting together now, and I also am working on some Matchup Videos for her as well.


I honestly feel like Mileena is simply Mid Tier, I just did a Mortal Kombat Podcast with The "PowerUp Tournament Organizer" ( The First Event for MK9 Upon release) I talked about her a lot on there as well but I'll state everything here as well.

Mileena needs help in a few categories. I think her specials should be unsafe since they are still strange to punish as they were in MK9.

If I got the chance to propose nerfs and buffs here's what I would say about every Variation.

General:
- D+4 needs to be Cancellable especially since it's like +12 on hit why wouldn't it be special cancellable?
- Telekick should NOT be punishable on hit.
- B+3 should forcestand

Ravenous :
- Give Bite More Range and Active Frames or Increase the active hit box of the move.
- She needs an alternate ender in the chain grab that either A. Leaves them standing but in a stun state or B. Leaves them closer to Mileena.

Piercing :

- High Sai needs to be Faster or Recover Quicker and do less damage
- Sai Stab Command chains should do like 2 seconds of bleeding damage to the character impaled.

Ethereal :

- Make the Sai Disappear when it hits the ground that way it can ACTUALLY be used as a Mixup. So that way the Opponent ACTUALLY has to pay attention to where you threw the Sai at.

- Give her a cancel so that if she doesn't want to go to said place she can reappear in place.


Also a seperate note; I'll share something awesome that I didn't want to put out yet but I will.

On Knockdown in the corner F,3,4,3 will bodycrossup and make wakeup reversals whiff and/or beat them out. Very specific timing for certain characters. If you just do F3,4 depending on the wakeup situation it will make the opponents move whiff and go the opposite direction and you recover a lot faster using F,3,4.

I'll add to this. Low sai shouldnt be -8 on hit. Ex telekick shouldnt wiff against certain opponents on hit. D1 shouldnt randomly wiff in hit. Xray shouldnt be randomly punishable on hit because it randomly acts like regular tk

 

[MetalFace]

Yea I'll echo that low sai and tele kick should definitely be safe on hit. It's a bit absurd that they aren't. Like what's the point of regular tele kick? Combo only I guess. Maybe anti airs on a read.

EX telekick partially whiffing drives me crazy too. Should really be fixed.