What's new

The Let's Be Serious Here Podcast: Episode 4, with Special Guest GGA Slips!

Whom should Slips blame the most for the "Scorpion scare"?

  • KDZ

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • M2Dave

    Votes: 21 46.7%
  • Pig of the Hut

    Votes: 17 37.8%
  • REO

    Votes: 14 31.1%
  • Rico Suave

    Votes: 8 17.8%
  • Tom Brady

    Votes: 14 31.1%
  • Other (specify in thread)

    Votes: 3 6.7%

  • Total voters
    45

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
I like Smoke as a character, but man...he was stupid. Try to throw a projectile and you lose 60% minimum...he was so bullshit.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Thanks to PL and m2dave for having me on. Always fun talking strategy and game theory. It doesn't look like me, or any other can show dave the light that DS is pretty good, but maybe some others will start to get it. ;)

We all agree scorp is ass now though, so that makes me happy.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
If Smoke was so broken, then why did you all not pick him up and win every major with him? Smoke's damage was broken, and it helped put the character inside of the top 10.
So many tears in this podcast it is awesome.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
If Smoke was so broken, then why did you all not pick him up and win every major with him? Smoke's damage was broken, and it helped put the character inside of the top 10.
So many tears in this podcast it is awesome.
I think the main reason Smoke wasn't broken is because his reset isn't that reliable and you can't really practice it like Cyrax's. Smoke's reset is dropped half the time. If there was somebody who could pull off Smoke's reset consistently 100% of the time without fail off of any smokebomb, that would be pretty ridiculous lol
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I think the main reason Smoke wasn't broken is because his reset isn't that reliable and you can't really practice it like Cyrax's. Smoke's reset is dropped half the time. If there was somebody who could pull off Smoke's reset consistently 100% of the time without fail off of any smokebomb, that would be pretty ridiculous lol
didn't @TONY-T and Check able to?
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I think the main reason Smoke wasn't broken is because his reset isn't that reliable and you can't really practice it like Cyrax's. Smoke's reset is dropped half the time. If there was somebody who could pull off Smoke's reset consistently 100% of the time without fail off of any smokebomb, that would be pretty ridiculous lol
We have the reset down that isn't the problem, I hit mine much more than 50% of the time when I was playing. Smoke is awesome and close to broken in terms of the game (hell maybe he is broken in terms of damage). He murdered more than half the cast IMO. The problem is that in a tournament you are going to end up in a group of characters that are your worst MU's outside of Freddy (but there aren't a huge amount of Freddy's). I am talking Kabal, Lao, and Sonya. The characters he absolutely murders are not the ones you are going to be playing. His lack of armor also hurts him in some of his harder matchups.

Cyrax is also not an advantage matchup IMO, his pressure is extremely good against Smoke and it is not a big deal that he can't throw nets from full screen. That sounded so dumb on the podcast.

With all that said he is good, and probably somewhere between 7-10 in the game.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
We have the reset down that isn't the problem, I hit mine much more than 50% of the time when I was playing. Smoke is awesome and close to broken in terms of the game (hell maybe he is broken in terms of damage). He murdered more than half the cast IMO. The problem is that in a tournament you are going to end up in a group of characters that are your worst MU's outside of Freddy (but there aren't a huge amount of Freddy's). I am talking Kabal, Lao, and Sonya. The characters he absolutely murders are not the ones you are going to be playing. His lack of armor also hurts him in some of his harder matchups.

Cyrax is also not an advantage matchup IMO, his pressure is extremely good against Smoke and it is not a big deal that he can't throw nets from full screen. That sounded so dumb on the podcast.

With all that said he is good, and probably somewhere between 7-10 in the game.
Cage sucks for smoke too IMO
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Smoke was on par with Cyrax. Better anti-zoning. Better footsies. Better AA. Better runaway. Equal in wakeup attacks.

Only thing Cyrax won in was damage. And that wasn't by much if Smoke could hit his resets.

Such silliness was Smoke.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I think it is a 5-5, but honestly I mained Smoke and Cage and I liked playing the MU on the Cage side a bit more.
So Smoke loses to Kabal just like everyone does. He also probably loses to Kung Lao and Sonya. He does well against Cage, according to you, Cyrax and Kenshi. He beats Freddy and Kitana at least 6:4. He destroys every other character with the exception of Jax and Reptile.

Smoke sounds perfectly tournament viable to me. You have nothing but yourselves to blame that only one of you was half-decent to win a major tournament with this overpowered character.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Smoke was on par with Cyrax. Better anti-zoning. Better footsies. Better AA. Better runaway. Equal in wakeup attacks.

Only thing Cyrax won in was damage. And that wasn't by much if Smoke could hit his resets.

Such silliness was Smoke.
Good Cyrax's weren't jumping in this matchup. They were using the anti-air throw to close the gap. Smoke could still anti-air this but there wasn't as much risk. Smoke has good footsies for sure but LBSH Cyrax's D4 was freaking broken. It was +16 or something, and led him into really good rushdown pressure in the MU, command grab guessing game, 12 into other pressure that can be confirmed into net. Cyrax didn't just have damage, he had massive UNBREAKABLE damage. It is not as simple as saying damage is equal, especially when Cyrax had the option to confirm into EX net, and rob meter for breaker/resets when those were critical to have in this matchup.

With that said I still think it is 5-5 because of a lot of the reasons you mentioned. Just trying to point out that the silliness is you saying that Cyrax did not have options in the matchup, give me a break and admit your emo-ness about the character.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
So Smoke loses to Kabal just like everyone does. He also probably loses to Kung Lao and Sonya. He does well against Cage, according to you, Cyrax and Kenshi. He beats Freddy and Kitana at least 6:4. He destroys every other character with the exception of Jax and Reptile.

Smoke sounds perfectly tournament viable to me. You have nothing but yourselves to blame that only one of you was half-decent to win a major tournament with this overpowered character.
I do not agree that Smoke loses to Kabal like everyone else does. He loses worse IMO, Kabal wrecks his game in the same way you tear about Smoke wrecking Freddy's. So you would then just say Freddy loses to Smoke like everyone else does, right?

I am not downplaying Smoke, I have always said he is one of the best characters in the game and he dominates a ton of other characters. The problem is that this is a 3-5 character game for the most part and Smoke was not in that group. Three of those characters happened to be his worst MU's. In tournaments, IMO Smoke needs an alt to be tournament viable.
 

SZSR

Noob
So Smoke loses to Kabal just like everyone does. He also probably loses to Kung Lao and Sonya. He does well against Cage, according to you, Cyrax and Kenshi. He beats Freddy and Kitana at least 6:4. He destroys every other character with the exception of Jax and Reptile.

Smoke sounds perfectly tournament viable to me. You have nothing but yourselves to blame that only one of you was half-decent to win a major tournament with this overpowered character.
Wafflez' win at FR was completely earned by facing and defeating the opponents that he ended up with how the brackets were setup (i'm not saying collusion or any of that).

I saw the Kung Lao (PL?) , Kabals (Cat), and Sonyas(Gamerblake) among others fall left and right to matchups that Smoke doesn't mind at all, like Kenshi and Reptile and that started to help out Wafflez.

As soon as the top 8 started to flesh out, I told the people around me that Wafflez had a solid chance at winning the tourney, his toughest matchups at the end of the tourney were Skarlet, Jax and maybe Sektor.

And to the Smoke community those were/are completely winnable, he outplayed those players that day.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Good Cyrax's weren't jumping in this matchup. They were using the anti-air throw to close the gap. Smoke could still anti-air this but there wasn't as much risk. Smoke has good footsies for sure but LBSH Cyrax's D4 was freaking broken. It was +16 or something, and led him into really good rushdown pressure in the MU, command grab guessing game, 12 into other pressure that can be confirmed into net. Cyrax didn't just have damage, he had massive UNBREAKABLE damage. It is not as simple as saying damage is equal, especially when Cyrax had the option to confirm into EX net, and rob meter for breaker/resets when those were critical to have in this matchup.

With that said I still think it is 5-5 because of a lot of the reasons you mentioned. Just trying to point out that the silliness is you saying that Cyrax did not have options in the matchup, give me a break and admit your emo-ness about the character.
I wasn't talking about the actual mu of Smoke vs. Cyrax. I was just comparing tools in general against the whole cast.

I will argue that Smoke's footsies are better than Cyrax's though. As long as you keep a low profile against Cyrax he can't get that juicy guessing game off his d4. If he hits you while ducking then he's at disadvantage and can't follow up with the 12/command grab guessing game. You can't do this vs. Smoke because of b2. Not to mention Smoke's smoke bomb will randomly hit you more than Cyrax's net in footsies.

Your right about unbreakable damage and the meter drain. Which is why I'll say Smoke is just on par with Cyrax and not better than him. :p
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I wasn't talking about the actual mu of Smoke vs. Cyrax. I was just comparing tools in general against the whole cast.

I will argue that Smoke's footsies are better than Cyrax's though. As long as you keep a low profile against Cyrax he can't get that juicy guessing game off his d4. If he hits you while ducking then he's at disadvantage and can't follow up with the 12/command grab guessing game. You can't do this vs. Smoke because of b2. Not to mention Smoke's smoke bomb will randomly hit you more than Cyrax's net in footsies.

Your right about unbreakable damage and the meter drain. Which is why I'll say Smoke is just on par with Cyrax and not better than him. :p
True, Smoke is dabesss