The Future of Fighting Games

[CrimsonShadow]

An enormous topic, but one that has implications for all of us. We've all watched the genre evolve bit by bit. In each generation, FGs take steps in one direction or the other, with the current 'hot' trend being 3d-rendered 2d-style games. But our current slate of franchise iterations won't last forever, so what's next?

In one way or another, I've been around fighting games since the beginning. I've watched them go from simple movesets, to pre-planned combos, to 'super' bars and enhanced specials.. Saw the addition of double jumps, parrys, complex juggles, team assists.. etc. By 2014, we've seen all kinds of mechanics in play, from puppet/pet systems, X-factor, character traits and interactibles, red focus.. Things that were once considered niche or anime-only mechanics have found their way into mainstream games.

SF4 was a major revitalization of both a game franchise and the fighting game community as a whole. It's pretty impressive that one game had the power to interest so many new people in being a part of this experience.

So where are fighting games headed next? What's in our future? When the next iterations roll around (SF5, etc.) what are we in store for? What would take things to the next level, and what bold moves will game devs make to try to push the frontiers?

Curious to know what everything thinks -- where do we go from here?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@CrimsonShadow, what needs to be done is the fgc must merge with Mlg, or we will stay laggin behind strategy and fps games

 

[Smarrgasm]

I like turtles.

 

[rev0lver]

They should do mortal kombat but have it 3d

 

[Indecisive]

I feel like we need to unite as a community if we wish to strive. That means Capcom, Anime, 3D, NRS, Smash, Etc. Game wise Anime games will continue to be made as long as anime is a thing. Which it will always be. They have high demand for casual players IMO since you get to play as known characters. Street Fighter is going to be stuck on 4 for a while. Capcom is going to keep updating the game until the feel they can no longer make some sort of money from it. Marvel is kinda fucked atm so Marvel 3 is going to stay for a long time without any update. 3D fighters seem to be dieing to some extent. Then we see the turnout from final round showing how many people still play. Tekken will continue to be a game with good Netcode. Idk about Soul Calibur though. Smash will be stuck on Melee until Smash 4 Comes out with a gamecube controller that can work on the Wii U. Since Melee is better than brawl and easier to deal with. So ya. Thats what i think. I forgot to Ass NRS is going to make MK10. And its not going to be like the other Mk games and people are going to hate it. Then they are going to love it. Simple as that.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Every different FGC clique will have its own way of going into the future...

 

[chemist4hire]

Some people can't let go of the past, while other obsess over the future. Enjoy the present. Play the fighters you like from any generation.

Game mechanics in fighters are not going to take a giant leap forward. These things always proceed slowly and if the game is balanced and competitive to a degree, it will have a lifespan. I hope features, such as CVS2's groove mechanic, that add variety and allow for a character to be played via different play styles make a return in the future.

 

[Tony at Home]

That Street Fighter 4 was a boon to fighting games that introduced many players was more of a misread on the part of those players.

The game was billed as the most accessible fighter on the market, and therefore the best for casuals, but over time they learned this wasn't the case- in fact, the game was one of the LEAST accessible fighting games on the market. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it was hugely irresponsible of many to say it was, when it wasn't. Sirlin went over this in an article a while back:

http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2009/2/22/a-few-things-about-street-fighter-4.html

The issue is- do those players, who were told this was the best way to get into fighting games when SF4 came out- now see that high-execution style of gameplay as the standard of accessibility in fighting games?

If they do, there's hardly any doubt that the next Street Fighter will have the same effect, as they won't want to get burned again. It's totally OK for a game to take months just to learn the basics- but don't lie to players and call it "accessible" when there's a swath of other games that are much easier to get into. Street Fighter 4 helped revitalize the genre- but it was on false pretenses that may come back to bite us in the future.

 

[kabelfritz]

well, i wonder if it could/should be a Goal to get rid of Frame data/static movesets at all. in reality moves dont have the same time attributes all the time. they can be delayed, faked, interrupted, be executed fast or slow and light or hard without any predetermined Levels. maybe theres a way to achieve this in Video games? and how would it turn out? the game could be way more psychology and reads than mechanics abuse. and how, if you think of for example of a real boxing fight, where fighters control their "moves" as they wish, would this freedom Transfer to games with Special moves, Magic and zoning wars?

id like to hear some Input on this

 

[shaowebb]

I believe the future of fighting games will HEAVILY have to involve refocusing a good portion of development toward the creation of strong single player content in the form of lengthier storymodes, unlocks, challenge modes and other things. NRS has proven that its not the extreme amount of options and tools a game has that will determine whether it explodes on the market in terms of consumer interest...its simply giving them a lot to experience at any level of skill. MK9 and Injustice are still hailed on the open market by those outside the FGC as the end all be all from every corner I have managed to find and talk to. From highschool talks with my nephews to old coworkers at Walmart, and even just hearing shit in gamestores from families. The fact that for the cost they had soooooooo many things to do sold well to them as a "value".

As deep as fighters get in meta (and things like KoF 13 have so many properties it get DEEP) that just doesn't translate on the open market. The money will keep this genre alive and thriving and the money is in single player content selling points. NRS gets it...I hope very strongly that the rest of those in the market see this and push themselves to focus harder on this.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The game was billed as the most accessible fighter on the market, and therefore the best for casuals, but over time they learned this wasn't the case- in fact, the game was one of the LEAST accessible fighting games on the market. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it was hugely irresponsible of many to say it was, when it wasn't. Sirlin went over this in an article a while back:

But there are 2 things that are still true:

1) A lot of people who did stick it out ended up liking it and becoming high level FG players or fans. Not in the millions, but enough people to significantly grow the FGC and open up a lot of opportunities.

and

2) There are still a lot of people all over the world playing online or offline who aren't top-level players. They just like mashing, throwing out special moves, and trying to fight as best they can. They aren't stressed about the details of becoming a high-level player because they aren't trying to become one.

Just because SF4 takes a lot to master doesn't mean that a couple of guys can't think it's a good-looking game and have fun duking it out on a lower level. If you want to play it like it's SF2, you're still free to do that and enjoy yourself.

 

[kabelfritz]

They should do mortal kombat but have it 3d

that would indeed be a huge step into the future

 

[Fred Marvel]

A-ism V-ism and X-ism return

 

[Frantastic23]

HD UMK3 would be pretty awesome.

That and Kerri Hoskins <3

 

[CrimsonShadow]

#3 VS Series games (a la UMVC3) but 6 player.
I'd love to see something like this.
UMVC3-like gameplay but the players that aren't active have to control assist calls.
It makes combo timing much more important and the players that aren't active must pay attention and use precise timing to help the active player of their team.
It would make performing some of the bullshit assist kill combos much harder to perform.
And of course you'd need a better game than UMVC3.

I always thought the Tag team mode in MK9 would have been a blast if it wasn't so broken. It was a ton of fun watching 2 guys play 2 other guys. Maybe in the future, internet speeds will allow us to do this online.

 

[Tony at Home]

But there are 2 things that are still true:

1) A lot of people who did stick it out ended up liking it and becoming high level FG players or fans. Not in the millions, but enough people to significantly grow the FGC and open up a lot of opportunities.

and

2) There are still a lot of people all over the world playing online or offline who aren't top-level players. They just like mashing, throwing out special moves, and trying to fight as best they can. They aren't stressed about the details of becoming a high-level player because they aren't trying to become one.

Just because SF4 takes a lot to master doesn't mean that a couple of guys can't think it's a good-looking game and have fun duking it out on a lower level. If you want to play it like it's SF2, you're still free to do that and enjoy yourself.

Even given if 1) was true- it still entails some people left and decided the FGC's description of "accessibility" meant it was still completely inaccessible to them. It would have been simply better to point them to a game that could have brought everyone up a level. There's still an element of "weeding" certain players out for reasons other than enjoyment of the genre.

As for 2), they stay mashers because the next level up is a giant leap. That's the issue with SF4, you learn the game in leaps, not steps. To go from masher to serious player, it takes months just to get down the basics of certain characters. Games like MK and Marvel are good at constantly giving players rewards for improving. You do basic combos, then beginner combos, then intermediate, then advanced combos. People are less likely to stay at the "button masher" stage if they can feasibly see themselves doing the next level of moves.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'd like to see fighting games on television but they will never make it to tv for three reasons: first, the games are too complex(even the "casual" games); second, there is no childhood connection to them among the majority of the population; and third, the tier lists.

Complexity:
If I catch bowling while flipping through the channels, or pool, I don't need to know the special properties of each pin or ball in order to understand what's happening, and there aren't 30+ pins or balls to keep track of.

Connection:
Most kids all over the world grow up playing some kind of sport, and there was a time when most kids in America played SF and MK as fervently as they played baseball or soccer, but those days are gone. Kids still play baseball, and soccer, but less and less want to be competitive in SF or MK, or in any fighting game. In the early days of that genre, that was the most macho game you could play as a young man, but today you have all kinds of testosterone fueled games spread across multiple genres. So, while those kids who play baseball and soccer casually will someday become paying spectators of the sport, the fighting game fans don't have a big enough pool to draw from, to build dedicated young fans who will become adult fans. Fighting games are as compelling as any other sport, but if you don't grow up experiencing them you won't understand why.

Tier Lists:
Character tiers are a problem. In sports, tiers are based on individual player ability/talent. We know who's the best because their overall skills dictate as much. Someone might say Lebron James is the best professional basketball player, and someone might say it's someone else, but they aren't saying that because Lebron plays for the Miami Heat. They're saying that because of Lebron's raw(natural), acquired(through practice) ability. In the fgc, we know some players are better than others. We know their raw talent and their acquired talent is real; however, when you see these great players play they're not playing "low tier" characters. You can pick any top SF player you want and they're not going to use or win majors with T Hawk in SF4. But, if Capcom wer to buffed T Hawk enough you would start to see the top players flock to him and they'd start winning with him. What changed? Their skill didn't chanage. The designers just made a character better.

If you put Lebron James on a shit team, he may not win a championship, but he'll still be the best basketball player in the NBA. Conversely, if you force the best fighting game player to use a shit character suddenly they won't be the best fighting game player anymore. That's a problem. For all the character vs skill discussion, it's bullshit when people say characters don't matter. For Lebron, teams don't matter with respect to what people find appealing in him: his talent, and that doesn't change no matter what team he's on, because he still gets to use the same ball on any team. Explaining that reality to non fg fans will not be received well. Basically, there's no way to judge individual top skill in the fgc unless you do a mirror match tournament for every character and whoever wins the majority is the best player. But, that's not how we do things, and I'm not even advocating that.


At best, the only thing we can hope for is to grow in the online entertainment space, which we are doing, but they(devs) need to actually start making some money on the streams and the events via subscription in order to grow scene, pots, and production value. Hopefully someday online and television will merge, and then and only then will the fgc have a crack at a broader viewing audience.

As for the games themselves, they'll continue to get easier and easier in order to attract the most casual of casual fans.

The weird thing though, is that video games are starting to play by their own rules. Twitch TV is surpassing a number of popular cable television channels in primetime ratings for the most desirable age demographics. The LoL finals sold out the Staples Center and had over 32 million viewers.

LoL is infinitely more complex to the casual viewer than fighting games are -- yet it has the highest viewership of any game because people become addicted to it and can't stop playing and watching. The lines between player and fan are blurring.

I think that TV amongst youth is a dying phenomenon; and soon the Internet and streaming will be just as important on it's own merit. The old adage of "you have to get on TV to be popular" is going extinct and will probably be laughed at in a few years from now.

 

[Euphoric]

That Street Fighter 4 was a boon to fighting games that introduced many players was more of a misread on the part of those players.

The game was billed as the most accessible fighter on the market, and therefore the best for casuals, but over time they learned this wasn't the case- in fact, the game was one of the LEAST accessible fighting games on the market. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it was hugely irresponsible of many to say it was, when it wasn't. Sirlin went over this in an article a while back:

http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2009/2/22/a-few-things-about-street-fighter-4.html

The issue is- do those players, who were told this was the best way to get into fighting games when SF4 came out- now see that high-execution style of gameplay as the standard of accessibility in fighting games?

If they do, there's hardly any doubt that the next Street Fighter will have the same effect, as they won't want to get burned again. It's totally OK for a game to take months just to learn the basics- but don't lie to players and call it "accessible" when there's a swath of other games that are much easier to get into. Street Fighter 4 helped revitalize the genre- but it was on false pretenses that may come back to bite us in the future.

Links are hard. I gave up trying to play the Street Fighter games "right". Not spending 2 hours to master a single link, so it won't get blocked. Who honestly has time like that to learn that?

I understand games like League which require knowledge that isn't a part of execution, more on strategy and stats. Which is why it's easier to play games like League and get into it.

 

[TotteryManx]

But there are 2 things that are still true:

1) A lot of people who did stick it out ended up liking it and becoming high level FG players or fans. Not in the millions, but enough people to significantly grow the FGC and open up a lot of opportunities.

and

2) There are still a lot of people all over the world playing online or offline who aren't top-level players. They just like mashing, throwing out special moves, and trying to fight as best they can. They aren't stressed about the details of becoming a high-level player because they aren't trying to become one.

Just because SF4 takes a lot to master doesn't mean that a couple of guys can't think it's a good-looking game and have fun duking it out on a lower level. If you want to play it like it's SF2, you're still free to do that and enjoy yourself.

LOL...you said it perfectly. I play SF4 like it is SF2...I don't even use focus attacks or nothing lol. I only play online and I think I fair pretty well in that setting though. I do however understand the basics...anti airing, whiff punishing, mixups, etc. etc. so that doesn't hurt lol. There are so many mechanics in SF I don't even use. I never even juggle haha. I just jump in HK, and do a target combo or something. I have a blast and do fairly well with what I know.

With that said I think companies need to stick to that kind of formula. A game that is so accessible that you can play it like an older game, but have it introduce a few new mechanics at the same time, so that option exists. People were so turned off by SFxT that it died really quickly. Pandora? The hate over that was ridiculous. We are extremely stuck in our ways.

 

[FrothyOmen]

The future of fighting games is MK10. MK is love, MK is life

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

This might be an unpopular opinion given what has happened with the last ones who tried it, but I honestly think microsoft and the guys at Double Helix had the right idea....just not the best execution. Free to play is the future of fighting games. No other business model will allow for the kind of continued support and updates that something as complex as a fighting game requires going forward.
Now mind you I did not play killer instinct ( I has no money for Xbone) but aside from the other drama surrounding double helix, the real problem I saw a lot of people complaining about is that they released a half finished product. Imagine if Injustice had been released as a more complete product with 5-7 free characters, 5 or so more DLC characters, with monthly updates that included new characters, stages, skinpacks (many based on current comics/movies), filters, storyline content, music, etc. etc. etc.

NRS/WB could still potentially be generating steady revenue on the game right now, and NRS could still be releasing regular updates without having to resort to the quick hotfix option. Just food for thought.

LOL...you said it perfectly. I play SF4 like it is SF2...I don't even use focus attacks or nothing lol. I only play online and I think I fair pretty well in that setting though. I do however understand the basics...anti airing, whiff punishing, mixups, etc. etc. so that doesn't hurt lol. There are so many mechanics in SF I don't even use. I never even juggle haha. I just jump in HK, and do a target combo or something. I have a blast and do fairly well with what I know.

I'm currently attempting to level up in SF4, and the thing that impresses me about the game is that despite all the extraneous high execution barrier stuff like FADC's and one frame links, fundamentals unquestionably trump everything else in the game. There's an introductory video series I watched a while ago where a guy showcased himself going online with ryu only using Grab, dmk, dhp, fhp as a punish, and fireball and while he didn't win every match, it was enough to get a lot of work done.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Motion Controlled Fighters.


Just kidding, if that happens I might kill myself(or not buy the games, probably a better way to go about it)

 

[TotteryManx]

I really think there is something to the Team style of game(s)
#1 Guardian Heroes Multiplayer / Naruto DS

And there was also a couple Naruto games on Nintendo DS that were similar.
Yeah they are chaotic, but when it comes down to the few remaining players of your team vs the other team it's pretty hype.

#2 Simple Team based (4-8 player)
There was a hack of KOF on kaillera years ago where a team of 3 players could fight another team of 3 players.
Players naturally form teams and clans, so I think allowing more of them to fight in a team-based game makes a lot of sense.
It would even allow clans another layer of depth because they would have to figure out who were the heavy-weights and whatnot.

#3 VS Series games (a la UMVC3) but 6 player.
I'd love to see something like this.
UMVC3-like gameplay but the players that aren't active have to control assist calls.
It makes combo timing much more important and the players that aren't active must pay attention and use precise timing to help the active player of their team.
It would make performing some of the bullshit assist kill combos much harder to perform.
And of course you'd need a better game than UMVC3.

I sincerely hope not. I play fighting games because I'm competitive and I'm too old to play football or something lol. I love that its 1 on 1 and whoever makes the best reads/moves wins. It's a game of chess...lets not make it checkers lol.

 

[TotteryManx]

This might be an unpopular opinion given what has happened with the last ones who tried it, but I honestly think microsoft and the guys at Double Helix had the right idea....just not the best execution. Free to play is the future of fighting games. No other business model will allow for the kind of continued support and updates that something as complex as a fighting game requires going forward.
Now mind you I did not play killer instinct ( I has no money for Xbone) but aside from the other drama surrounding double helix, the real problem I saw a lot of people complaining about is that they released a half finished product. Imagine if Injustice had been released as a more complete product with 5-7 free characters, 5 or so more DLC characters, with monthly updates that included new characters, stages, skinpacks (many based on current comics/movies), filters, storyline content, music, etc. etc. etc.

NRS/WB could still potentially be generating steady revenue on the game right now, and NRS could still be releasing regular updates without having to resort to the quick hotfix option. Just food for thought.




I'm currently attempting to level up in SF4, and the thing that impresses me about the game is that despite all the extraneous high execution barrier stuff like FADC's and one frame links, fundamentals unquestionably trump everything else in the game. There's an introductory video series I watched a while ago where a guy showcased himself going online with ryu only using Grab, dmk, dhp, fhp as a punish, and fireball and while he didn't win every match, it was enough to get a lot of work done.
This might be an unpopular opinion....but despite

no no no. I 100% agree with that. I think that is how I fair well...especially online. A lot of people are jump happy and don't realize I'm just going to knock you down if jump at me...or that I'm going to bait you to attack and step back and hit you with an advancing normal lol. Fundamentals in that game trumps all, but the worst is learning a new character. I've played Blanka and got so many of his combos/links down and now I'm trying Guile and its a pain in the ass.

Side note...did you bookmark that video or know how to find it? I am actually curious to see!

 

[Chuckychuck]

Next gen fighters is Fight Club