The "Flawless Block" Thread

[kabelfritz]

My main issue with it is it will give an advantage to people who decide to practice it against every prominent move in the game while us, casuals, will suffer for it.

umm isnt it kinda the point that the better player wins?

 

[mastermalone]

My main issue with it is it will give an advantage to people who decide to practice it against every prominent move in the game while us, casuals, will suffer for it.

That's the point of it. To keep you from abusing prominent moves in the game for easy wins. You will now have to learn to bait your opponent and trick them into doing a flawless block attempt and throw them as a punish.

In this game, mind games win matches, not abusable moves thanks to this mechanic. Shades of Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike.

 

[666 I HazeOner]

Can we only fb the first hit of a string or is it possible to block to first hit and fb the 2d or 3rd hit?

 

[mastermalone]

Can we only fb the first hit of a string or is it possible to block to first hit and fb the 2d or 3rd hit?

From what I've heard, you can attempt to FLB any hit during a string if you can time it right. You can FLB the first hit if you want. Or you can start blocking, then on the second or third hit, FLB.

 

[Rearawt]

Can we only fb the first hit of a string or is it possible to block to first hit and fb the 2d or 3rd hit?

Iirc if you block the first hit normally you can only start flawless blocking if there's a gap in the string and you start FwBing after it

 

[GLoRToR]

umm isnt it kinda the point that the better player wins?

The better player wins without a mechanic like this, too.

Though if it will be like @Eddy Wang said it's not that bad.

 

[STRYKIE]

My main issue with it is it will give an advantage to people who decide to practice it against every prominent move in the game while us, casuals, will suffer for it.

This will conversely emphasize to 'casuals' that their defense isn't as slick as they'd like to think it is.

How about FBL?

Possibly, but even that's susceptible to being confused for one or the other lol. The best way to clarify it for sure would probably be something like "F.Blk"

 

[GLoRToR]

This will conversely emphasize to 'casuals' that their defense isn't as slick as they'd like to think it is.

Let's be honest, casuals who think anything they do is slick at that level will not be stopped by a brick wall like this in making their own excuses why they lose.

I simply feel that fighting games already take immense skill and dedication to be good at, and adding a mechanic like this does nothing for the skill gap but makes it worse.

Though, again, Eddy has reassured me otherwise when he said that the window for this type of defense is fairly generous. As did Mustard a while after I posted here.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I programmed a mugen MK game with the same mechanic and released a beta for it, there isn't even a month of it. Went for all the trouble of finding the lenient input for it as well on my tests, specially to prevent people wakeing up perfect blocks and so on.

In this game when you perform a perfect block under your health will tell you did a perfect block and you will take no chip for doing that.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

Can we only fb the first hit of a string or is it possible to block to first hit and fb the 2d or 3rd hit?

If F.Blk the first hit of a gapless string you take reduced chip for the whole string.
My guess is if you F.Blk a gap string you can F.Blk multiple hits but 16bit didn't go into detail on that

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I'm not sure I'm a fan.

It's either going to be very situational in that only a few pros will even use it. OR it's going to make doing blockstrings with gaps, staggers, certain specials and such pointless to use vs almost any decent player.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I'm not sure I'm a fan.

It's either going to be very situational in that only a few pros will even use it. OR it's going to make doing blockstrings with gaps, staggers, certain specials and such pointless to use vs almost any decent player.

It also makes you come out faster on block, so certain moves who are just safe by a mile will become unsafe if flawless blocked.

 

[SaltShaker]

So I was rewatching the Johnny Kast, and I think I saw some implementations for Flawless Block. Look at 24:00-24:20 on the video for a quick view of what I'm saying, but there are other sights of this in the Kast.

From my understanding of FLB and reveal events information, you have the ability to FLB on strings that have a gap that you can't normal poke from. Not only the large gaps that you can poke ala Sonic vs Rewind. So say on Johnny's kick string, there is a considerable visible delay between the final kick, or to the cancel into that mid charge punch special. This appears to be a prime position to FLB/punish on a read. If Johnny does the kicks string into the punch special especially. Even if the punch was safe, the FLB would be a game changer in dealing with it, and cause the Johnny player to think a bit more than mashing it repeatedly. On the flip side, Johnny can read this, and have you pressing FLB like an idiot and simply grab you or pause and pressure more.

I've seen windows like this a few times, but I think Johnny's Kast had the highest display of it's potential.

 

[MKF30]

This newer element looks like it'll hardly be used if the 16 bit vs Dizzy matches were any indication, I mean I know they're both now former tourney pros but obviously they know what they're doing. I didn't see many if any flawless block. The timing for this will be a alot more precise than I imagined. Guess time will tell how much of a game changer it really is.

 

[SaltShaker]

This newer element looks like it'll hardly be used if the 16 bit vs Dizzy matches were any indication, I mean I know they're both now former tourney pros but obviously they know what they're doing. I didn't see many if any flawless block. The timing for this will be a alot more precise than I imagined. Guess time will tell how much of a game changer it really is.

Tbf, their play on this Kast wasn't impressive at all. Not sure if they aren't experienced with those characters or sandbagged it, but it wasn't too great. Not sure they even attempted a FLB and they rarely mention it anymore (or other mechanics for that matter) so it's something we'll have to test Day 1.

 

[Eldagrin]

Flawless block giving a punish kind of worries me a bit. A lot of people hated perfect block in Soul Calibur 5 because it made everything punishable, maybe it will be better here though. Guess we’ll see.

 

[Pterodactyl]

This newer element looks like it'll hardly be used if the 16 bit vs Dizzy matches were any indication, I mean I know they're both now former tourney pros but obviously they know what they're doing. I didn't see many if any flawless block. The timing for this will be a alot more precise than I imagined. Guess time will tell how much of a game changer it really is.

That’s not really a fair assessment because they weren’t really using a lot of things.

Like Dizzy was only doing one combo over and over(no offense to him, it was kind of a stressful on the spot situaion and we don’t know how much time he had to practice) and 16 seemed to be going relatively easy on him so we could at least see SOME Johnny gameplay and not a uneventful stomp.

 

[MKF30]

Tbf, their play on this Kast wasn't impressive at all. Not sure if they aren't experienced with those characters or sandbagged it, but it wasn't too great. Not sure they even attempted a FLB and they rarely mention it anymore (or other mechanics for that matter) so it's something we'll have to test Day 1.

Well it was for demonstration more than anything but I mean you could tell they were levels above Derek and Tyler's gameplay, plus they were both talking not sure about you but when I talk it's distracting, I lose focus at least with fighting games and racing games lol. I'm curious to learn more about the execution of the Flawless Block myself.

That’s not really a fair assessment because they weren’t really using a lot of things.

Like Dizzy was only doing one combo over and over(no offense to him, it was kind of a stressful on the spot situaion and we don’t know how much time he had to practice) and 16 seemed to be going relatively easy on him so we could at least see SOME Johnny gameplay and not a uneventful stomp.

I know but like I was telling SS, they were really just showing demonstration of more higher level play but also talking which can take your focus away from the game. I know they weren't going to show off every, little thing about the game but I was a little surprised neither did it at least once out of what like 5, 6 matches they played? But it's all good, it's something we'll have to see ourselves to see just how high the execution is. Not sure about either taking it easy on the other, I don't think both were really trying that hard to win, but more so to demonstrate higher level play(as oppose to derek and tyler who are more casual in comparison to 16 and Dizzy)

 

[SaltShaker]

Well it was for demonstration more than anything but I mean you could tell they were levels above Derek and Tyler's gameplay, plus they were both talking not sure about you but when I talk it's distracting, I lose focus at least with fighting games and racing games lol. I'm curious to learn more about the execution of the Flawless Block myself.

I don't think it will be difficult at all to execute actually. If you remember at the reveal event, those guys only had about 2 hours to practice the game total, and when they played you still saw a couple of FLBs on their live games and behind the scenes game. If that's the case, then imagine after a couple of days of practice, a week, two weeks, etc. It won't be too hard to pull off after some practicing.

I think it'll flow into the meta on "when" you use it, if you get baited into using it, etc. But yea there's no we we'll get a real visual of that for a while. If we're lucky we may see it in some vids from the stress test.

 

[MKF30]

I don't think it will be difficult at all to execute actually. If you remember at the reveal event, those guys only had about 2 hours to practice the game total, and when they played you still saw a couple of FLBs on their live games and behind the scenes game. If that's the case, then imagine after a couple of days of practice, a week, two weeks, etc. It won't be too hard to pull off after some practicing.

I think it'll flow into the meta on "when" you use it, if you get baited into using it, etc. But yea there's no we we'll get a real visual of that for a while. If we're lucky we may see it in some vids from the stress test.

Yeah that's true, yeah true forgot about the betas. I'm sure there'll be a few breakdown vids with that. I'm hoping the MB/Enhanced moves with the switch stance won't be too difficult, with my configuration. I tend to have throw as RB, and keep block as RT. I never touch the switchy stance button though, just so used to using block to enhance but that's another issue lol. I'm sure we'll get used to it.

 

[kabelfritz]

ive really tried to incorporate FB into my play outside of blowing up string gaps, but whenever i try to do it online i lose, and whenever i stop it i start winning again.

i understand that it is really something you mainly do when your opponent gets too predictable, but still... i havent gotten any mileage out of it outside of blowing up string gaps.

 

[MKF30]

Honestly, this mechanic is overrated. It's meh, and the FB U2 counters HA, good luck getting that shit consistently. I would have preferred everyone had a legit parry instead. I know that's kind of the reason for it but yeah, in most matches I've played, watched regardless of the level mind you I rarely see this being used.