What's new

The "Flawless Block" Thread

Let's talk flawless block. i think its a very cool and unexpected mechanic, apparently rewarding highest level skill.

but i have some worries about its implementation.

1. too long/short input window.

as said in the other thread, it seems to be 3 frames right now, which is something a top-level player can get down 9 or 10/10 times. i realize there can be mind games around flawless block, like delaying attacks a tiny moment and stuff. But i've heard you can also attempt to flawless Block in between string hits, which would make it a pretty guaranteed thing in the right hands - then again, the opponent can always cancel the string.

generally flawless block sounds to me like it should be a 1-frame thing, which even the best can attempt or fail. the reward of a guaranteed punish (with meter though), no matter what attack you block is too high to be given out easily. otherwise i'm imagining tournament fights with flawless blocks only. but tbh i have no idea how this would play out in the end.


2. semi-option-selecting flawless block.

no matter how long the window for FB is, you can develope a timing where you hit block either early or flawless, but not too late. this would result in either blocking an attack normally or flawlessly, with no risk of not blocking at all. so flawless block might a spammable thing with no punishment for failure.


3. punishment for failed flawless block.

the risk - reward factor must be on point here. otherwise FB will be either omnipresent or generally avoided. if the execution is really tight (1-frame), hard punishment will discourage people. if its easier, punishment might not affect some players at all, so it doesnt matter how hard it is. then there is also the problem of point 2, try for free. Maybe extremely high-risk (1-frame window) and extremely good reward (like meter free punishment chance) might do the job.

your thoughts or actually input of people who had hands on?
 
Last edited:

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
yep this FB is almost as some kinda of parry mechanic in the game, very interesting stuff indeed .... and, if you regularly can do reversal attacks using 1 frame window, maybe this FB will be very viable too as defensive tool
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I did hear about that. I think it'll function as "Instant Block" (another term from anime FGs). Or to be precise, much similar to how Wonder Woman and Kenshi did.
 

KingKhrystopher

Official Merlin of TYM
To be fair, we did only see one of them in tournament from Sonic iirc. And it'll depend on how spaced out the character can attack from. For example, Sonya's Flawless Block appears to be a flipkick. If someone like Skarlet has a move that's far out of range from her, it could allow Skarlet to punish it if she spaces herself well, or dissuade players from trying in the first place. I'm more for waiting till the beta and seeing how successful people actually are at using it before nerfing it quite yet.
 
To be fair, we did only see one of them in tournament from Sonic iirc. And it'll depend on how spaced out the character can attack from. For example, Sonya's Flawless Block appears to be a flipkick. If someone like Skarlet has a move that's far out of range from her, it could allow Skarlet to punish it if she spaces herself well, or dissuade players from trying in the first place. I'm more for waiting till the beta and seeing how successful people actually are at using it before nerfing it quite yet.
the mechanic is a bit different though, you can cancel a flawless block into one of the wakeup attacks to punish them.

and i'm also not about nerfing at all, just collecting thoughts
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
these theory fighter's threads though
At least 2 a day now.

But i will say this....If executed correctly, its take a bar from your offensive AND defensive meter. Not sure how super viable this will be with how expensive the cost of meter is, but i kinda like it.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
I agree, FB should extremely hard. Something risky do to even for the highest level of players, resulting in a great high risk/high reward mechanic, mostly for last ditch effort comebacks.

This would lead to some extremely hype moments!

I would also completely remove chip on successful FB, instead of just reducing it.
 

KingKhrystopher

Official Merlin of TYM
the mechanic is a bit different though, you can cancel a flawless block into one of the wakeup attacks to punish them.

and i'm also not about nerfing at all, just collecting thoughts
Ooh okay. That makes sense. I haven't gotten my hands on it so I thought it was only 1 move. Still, I'm hoping to play it for myself and see how often we're gonna see it done, because a 3 frame window...that's like, Swarm Queen D'Vorah type windows there lol
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I think this and short hop are going to be huge mechanics. One thing I am not clear about with flawless block is whether or not you get a better frame situation if you don't use the bar on the flawless block attack. Like if I flawless block a projectile, can I walk forward faster then if I hadn't? Regardless, I think these two mechanics are going to be huge defensive options.

A very common situations in NRS games is the opponent doing a slightly plus string on block and then poking you. Your options were generally to either hold the d1(opening yourself up for throws and other pressure), backdash, use armor, otherwise attempt to escape or to disrespect the frames with your own attack. Now that we have flawless block, such strings may be more easily countered with the opponent having to read whether or not you will flawless block "reversal attack" them. And then on top of that you have short hop which can avoid the poke and a throw while countering the opponent with a splat.

Any how I'm not overly concerned with the mechanic being too strong, I think it's a hype mechanic that should be powerful. As long as it's not just easy mode where you flawless block everything. I think SFIII: Third Strike is arguably the best fighter ever made(I don't even play it much but it's so fun to watch) and one of the hypest things about that game is the parry system which isn't the same mechanic but flawless block has shades of that.
 

BecomingDeath13

"You won't winter over?" Who the fuck wrote that?
One thing I am not clear about with flawless block is whether or not you get a better frame situation if you don't use the bar on the flawless block attack. Like if I flawless block a projectile, can I walk forward faster then if I hadn't?
You take reduced chip and you recover from blockstun faster than a normal block
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Flawless block takes reduced chip
reduces pushback
reduces blockstun
you recover faster
have to amplify to use its launchers.



3 frames window is where the lenience is, otherwise you can't use it online.
You make it too hard then it becomes another pushblock mechanic which no one used at all.
Lets not forget there are projectiles in this game, and everything you do might affect more than just what you want to avoid.
And anything you can't use post amplification, recovering earlier to use a punish its still going to be possible.

Before anything lets see how it plays out first
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
seriously, how could this be a bad thing?
Its not, if you mean to block, you blocked, if you miss time it you blocked anyways and take the chip, the push back and the blockstun and what ever that attack propriety comes with it.

Not sure if there is ever going to be an option select with it, since block will always lose to throws, and if you tap a block to option select with something else, there is a reminder that attacks to come out still going to wait until the block animation ends.

Still its going to do wonders against mashers though.
 

CallMeTetris

draxx them sklounst
Is there any outright evidence that flawless block reduces blockstun? I thought it was just a matter of being able to guard cancel and that's where all the "you can punish things you couldn't otherwise" talk comes in.
 

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
From what I've seen in videos that explain this mechanic, you receive no chip damage and gain access to an instant counter if you perform one of the two wake up options immediately after. I thought it was reduced chip too until I watched Justin Wong's video about the game mechanics. I saw no chip at all after an FB.

I play Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike competitively so this looks like it functions a little like that. Apparently, performing an FB costs nothing from the meter unless you perform one of those wake up options after. I watched the defense meter after the FB and there were still 2 bars of defense. The devs said that you can perform consecutive FBs but I have yet to see it done.

I hope it does work like the parry system. Let MK get it's own moment 37. That would be hype
 
I would hope that these will be negative enough on whiff for a counter hit combo. I would also like that FB requires a defensive meter stocked, not used to perform one. and since they are copying soul calibur, they should also be able to be low crushed to avoid FB abuse.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Is there any outright evidence that flawless block reduces blockstun? I thought it was just a matter of being able to guard cancel and that's where all the "you can punish things you couldn't otherwise" talk comes in.
You come out faster on block so the blockstun is reduced, as well as the pushback since you don't stay longer on it.
From what I've seen in videos that explain this mechanic, you receive no chip damage and gain access to an instant counter if you perform one of the two wake up options immediately after. I thought it was reduced chip too until I watched Justin Wong's video about the game mechanics. I saw no chip at all after an FB.

I play Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike competitively so this looks like it functions a little like that. Apparently, performing an FB costs nothing from the meter unless you perform one of those wake up options after. I watched the defense meter after the FB and there were still 2 bars of defense. The devs said that you can perform consecutive FBs but I have yet to see it done.

I hope it does work like the parry system. Let MK get it's own moment 37. That would be hype
The health in MK11 has numbers, watch any footage of flawless block and you will see the health flashing and while it flashes you will see the number going down even if just by a little but still goes down, its like 1 point of chip or something.
 

Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
I would hope that these will be negative enough on whiff for a counter hit combo. I would also like that FB requires a defensive meter stocked, not used to perform one. and since they are copying soul calibur, they should also be able to be low crushed to avoid FB abuse.
They are just timed blocks, you can't whiff them. You just get hit or get a normal block