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The Death of Zoning in Injustice: GAU

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Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Ninj said:
If a character who relies on spacing is a zoner, every character is by default a zoner.

Unless I missed something and every character has full screen normals and no one has to move to fight on the game?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Yes, every character can zone. But some can zone better than others.

For instance Raven can zone effectively because she has fullscreen moves to keep you in check. Catwoman can't zone effectively from full screen, only within whip range. A "zoner" is a character who can better space out characters, although technically everyone can zone. Just like everyone can technically rushdown, but some are better suited for it. get what I'm saying?
 
Ninj

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Zoidberg747 said:
Yes, every character can zone. But some can zone better than others.

For instance Raven can zone effectively because she has fullscreen moves to keep you in check. Catwoman can't zone effectively from full screen, only within whip range. A "zoner" is a character who can better space out characters, although technically everyone can zone. Just like everyone can technically rushdown, but some are better suited for it. get what I'm saying?
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I do and I agree that this is your interpretation of what a zoner is. Probably the correct one. Clearly it's not m2daves, as his opening line that zoning is dead is a retarded statement.

He needs to define what he means. I know what he means, but I don't think mang people here do. Especially the newer members.

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Zatoichi

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
I feel like Sinestro could use a few more small buffs so he can actually stand a chance when I get in on him(With Green Arrow and Joker). I also think he might need a slightly faster recovery on that traditional projectile move he has.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Ninj said:
I do and I agree that this is your interpretation of what a zoner is. Probably the correct one. Clearly it's not m2daves, as his opening line that zoning is dead is a retarded statement.

He needs to define what he means. I know what he means, but I don't think mang people here do. Especially the newer members.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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So we are basically agreeing then? My bad.

Yeah this whole thread is hella dumb.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
m2dave said:
Push block and the clash system do favor zoning characters in several ways, but you have to have good zoning characters who can take advantage of these tools. What am I supposed to do with fireballs that have 100+ frames of total recovery even if they have fast start up frames? Nothing. The irony is that this game now heavily favors rush and 50/50 mix up characters. Sinestro is arguably the "purest" zoning character, yet he may not even be top 15.
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Raven is the purest zoning character....
IDK why you don't see that.
 
Alien Substance

Alien Substance

Evanesce
shaowebb said:
Ninj
I just read the last 5 pages like you said. The whole thing. While it sort of stayed on topic to the whole "zoning dead or not dead" thing folks were going on about this thread doesn't really contribute a whole lot. Its just sort of...grumping. When you have problems just take them into the lab and stay calm is how I see it. I see what your getting at, but this thread pretty much devolved into something where no one will be able to get anything out of it if they wanted at this point.

EDIT: Naw. Fuck it let it rock. Just try to stay on topic and discuss the meta. If it continues to fall apart in here though I'll give it a mercy killing. Just try to actually discuss meta more.

Is zoning actually easy to deal with now or not? Are people consistently getting around it in tournies or not?
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Quoted for reminders.
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Zoning: Intentionally keeping distance/pressure on your opponent, either reading their style or forcing them into playing a certain way. Adaptive to close combat situations and able to make good on big damage opportunities.
A good zoning player will always create opportunities for themselves by keeping their opponent away from them as to gain control of the match, then adjust to their opponent's tactics/counters and act accordingly.
Zoning doesn't have to involve repeated moves at all. Zoning isn't just keeping your distance, it's about keeping within a very specific distance, which may not even be a half screen away. It might be just barely within range of a normal move. The idea is to establish this distance and keep it, because it limits your opponent's options and allows you to react more easily, giving you the control of the match.
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Spamming: Unintelligently repeating the same special move (usually projectile/teleport) with no change in tactics depending on situations.Spamming requires no skill, where as zoning requires you to adapt and be tactical.
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THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
shaowebb said:
Ninj
I just read the last 5 pages like you said. The whole thing. While it sort of stayed on topic to the whole "zoning dead or not dead" thing folks were going on about this thread doesn't really contribute a whole lot. Its just sort of...grumping. When you have problems just take them into the lab and stay calm is how I see it. I see what your getting at, but this thread pretty much devolved into something where no one will be able to get anything out of it if they wanted at this point.

EDIT: Naw. Fuck it let it rock. Just try to stay on topic and discuss the meta. If it continues to fall apart in here though I'll give it a mercy killing. Just try to actually discuss meta more.

Is zoning actually easy to deal with now or not? Are people consistently getting around it in tournies or not?
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Sinestro in grand finals at UFGT, and DS winning multiple WNF tournaments.

Seems fine to me.

Blind_Man who are you playing? Just curious.
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Reptile Orion said:
I read bits and pieces. But I agree with your comment. A number of players don't understand what zoning is. Essentially, it's a process to control space. You can do it actively or passively. It doesn't necessarily have to be with a projectile. The goal is to control your opponent's movement so your in the best possible position to punish your opponent. You can do it with pokes, special moves, or whatever is in your character's arsenal. You're trying to shut down their offense.

When used appropriately it's a beautiful thing. I don't agree with the opinion that zoning is dead. You don't can't be predictable with it.
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EXACTLY.
And that is all this man is trying to say.
Before, Slade truly was the best at what he did. He wasn't overpowered, he wasn't Kabal, not even fucking close, he just happened to be the most adept at the one tactic of fighters that apparently everyone loves to hate. Now, he has - still - unjustifiably been deprived of that title and relegated to a completely different corner of the IGAU metagame. The problem isn't he isn't viable, the problem is that Dave himself is inherently a zoner at heart, and follows suit in every fighter he plays, and he's infuriated that many another character were either left untouched or dropped via DLC that are just as powerful by virtue of their tools as old DS was before, if not more so. The character that fit best into his niche of play was pretty much forced to change from the ground up and become a type of character that, while still capable and quick in different rights, can no longer hold the same high tier amidst his comrades that he did before.
He isn't tirading on his own behalf. He's doing it because many others, like myself - yes, I'm still maining Deathstroke, adapting, growing, winning, etc., but at the heart of the argument I still agree with him 100% - believe as he believes, and want to keep our fellow outright or secretive zoning brethren/masters on the same page, regardless of how many people may want to smother the argument or act as though there's no reason for anyone to be flustered. ESPECIALLY with Hanzo's arrival.
 
MorbidAltruism

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
Lt. Box said:
EXACTLY.
And that is all this man is trying to say.
Before, Slade truly was the best at what he did. He wasn't overpowered, he wasn't Kabal, not even fucking close, he just happened to be the most adept at the one tactic of fighters that apparently everyone loves to hate. Now, he has - still - unjustifiably been deprived of that title and relegated to a completely different corner of the IGAU metagame. The problem isn't he isn't viable, the problem is that Dave himself is inherently a zoner at heart, and follows suit in every fighter he plays, and he's infuriated that many another character were either left untouched or dropped via DLC that are just as powerful by virtue of their tools as old DS was before, if not more so. The character that fit best into his niche of play was pretty much forced to change from the ground up and become a type of character that, while still capable and quick in different rights, can no longer hold the same high tier amidst his comrades that he did before.
He isn't tirading on his own behalf. He's doing it because many others, like myself - yes, I'm still maining Deathstroke, adapting, growing, winning, etc., but at the heart of the argument I still agree with him 100% - believe as he believes, and want to keep our fellow outright or secretive zoning brethren/masters on the same page, regardless of how many people may want to smother the argument or act as though there's no reason for anyone to be flustered. ESPECIALLY with Hanzo's arrival.
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Exactly... this is how I feel in a nut shell. I was thinking about picking up Deathstroke... but with his nerf... why don't I just use Scorpion? It is all about zoning specific characters being as good at zoning as non-zoning specific characters like Batman and Superman. They can zone almost as well but don't have many inherent weaknesses.

I don't think zoning is dead... but it has been severely attenuated.
 
jaym7018

jaym7018

Warrior
Lt. Box said:
EXACTLY.
And that is all this man is trying to say.
Before, Slade truly was the best at what he did. He wasn't overpowered, he wasn't Kabal, not even fucking close, he just happened to be the most adept at the one tactic of fighters that apparently everyone loves to hate. Now, he has - still - unjustifiably been deprived of that title and relegated to a completely different corner of the IGAU metagame. The problem isn't he isn't viable, the problem is that Dave himself is inherently a zoner at heart, and follows suit in every fighter he plays, and he's infuriated that many another character were either left untouched or dropped via DLC that are just as powerful by virtue of their tools as old DS was before, if not more so. The character that fit best into his niche of play was pretty much forced to change from the ground up and become a type of character that, while still capable and quick in different rights, can no longer hold the same high tier amidst his comrades that he did before.
He isn't tirading on his own behalf. He's doing it because many others, like myself - yes, I'm still maining Deathstroke, adapting, growing, winning, etc., but at the heart of the argument I still agree with him 100% - believe as he believes, and want to keep our fellow outright or secretive zoning brethren/masters on the same page, regardless of how many people may want to smother the argument or act as though there's no reason for anyone to be flustered. ESPECIALLY with Hanzo's arrival.
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This post is hilarious you quoted a guy who knows what zoning is then agree with him. Then go on to show you have no clue what zoning is by agreeing with dave.
 
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