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The Blind Swordsman - The Kenshi Discussion Thread

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
Kenshi mirrors are so fucking retarded and random.

Also, how do you stop people from just jumping over you over and over and punching you? EX shoulder maybe? crouching 1, idfk.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
PANDEMlC said:
Also, how do you stop people from just jumping over you over and over and punching you? EX shoulder maybe? crouching 1, idfk.
Jump back and punch into the Spirit Charge.

By the way, f+2,2,b+1 is safe on block.
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
It's 8 frames, so it gets full coverage from meaties.

Also, EX karma has armor, so that works somewhat, I'd reckon.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
I'd agree with that.

Tomorrow my project might be to practice combos starting with en. karma, just for that purpose.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vilén said:
I'd agree with that.

Tomorrow my project might be to practice combos starting with en. karma, just for that purpose.
Enhanced d,b+1 combos seem limited, especially at further ranges.

Guys, Kenshi's defense is good but not great. Well-timed cross up jumping punches make all of his wake up moves whiff.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Someone with a human opponent (offline), please test the following:

After a f+2,2,b+1 wait until the opponent is about to hit the ground, then start another combo (f+3,2 seems to have the easiest timing here). Using the training mode dummy, this seems to be a reset. The dummy can't use a wake-up attack or tech roll away. It's immediately pinned to the ground and forced to block the next attack, almost like a glitch (probably is). I don't know if this is a training mode glitch or if it works against a human opponent. I won't have any human (offline) comp until tomorrow, so if someone could please test this I'd appreciate it.

Assuming this works, it gives Kenshi a reset into just about whatever he wants so long as you can execute so that it hits as the opponent connects with the ground. It's not guaranteed, but considering the fact that Kenshi can start a combo with a low and has two single attack overheads, as well as special move overheads, it creates a guessing game for the opponent. You either take the overhead or get comboed a second time.

Thoughts?
This works with f22b1 as well. I was using f22b1, f22b1, wait f22b1 as they hit the ground and the were forced to block it or be popped up again. It completely eliminates wakeup and forces them to block. Kenshi OTG's ftw! This is in the corner, of course. One reset OTG into his 42% corner no meter combo does 68% lol

Kenshi is really good and has corner lockdown like Noob. I trapped my friends Kung Lao in the corner with bf2 and db1, he had a really hard time getting out.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Guys, Kenshi's defense is good but not great. Well-timed cross up jumping punches make all of his wake up moves whiff.
Yeah, this is something I had to really come to terms with. Honestly, it feels like you're totally fucked if you get crossed up at all.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vilén said:
Yeah, this is something I had to really come to terms with. Honestly, it feels like you're totally fucked if you get crossed up at all.
True.

Speaking of blocking, I talked to Tom and he and I concluded that b+2 gives advantage on block. f+2,2,b+2~Spirit Charge only appears to be interruptable by Reptile's Elbow Dash, enhanced special attacks with armor, and X-Rays even though b+2 does not cancel into the Spirit Charge. You cannot jump back or forward either. f+2,2,b+2 is probably Kenshi's best string at the moment. Train your opponent to block after f+2,2,b+2 and repeat the string to build a lot of meter.

By the way, 2,1,b+2 and 2,1,f+4 are safe too. However, the second string is punishably by Reptile only.
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
f22b2 is so amazing. Plus frames on block on a string with a 12f starter and disjointed hitbox = YES.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
True.

Speaking of blocking, I talked to Tom and he and I concluded that b+2 gives advantage on block. f+2,2,b+2~Spirit Charge only appears to be interruptable by Reptile's Elbow Dash, enhanced special attacks with armor, and X-Rays even though b+2 does not cancel into the Spirit Charge. You cannot jump back or forward either. f+2,2,b+2 is probably Kenshi's best string at the moment. Train your opponent to block after f+2,2,b+2 and repeat the string to build a lot of meter.

By the way, 2,1,b+2 and 2,1,f+4 are safe too. However, the second string is punishably by Reptile only.
How is it punishable by Reptile only...? I assume you're talking about the elbow dash. I thought that Raiden's superman was faster... so wouldn't he be able to punish too?
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
Premium Supporter
So if its plus frames on block what exactly can you do to stop him from doing that string over and over and over?
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
I think you can just crouch f22 and uppercut if you/your character are fast enough.

The entire world stops for down+3 too.
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
Reptile's elbow is 5f. Superman is 8f.

f22b2 cannot be neutral crouched and the hitbox is disjointed, so uppercut likely won't work.

The string is one giant mixup. Also, because f22b2 > Charge is uninterruptable outside of elbow, this means that d1 is possibly uninterruptable period and that f22b2 is +2 on block.
 

DrDogg

Noob
Reptile's elbow is 5f. Superman is 8f.

f22b2 cannot be neutral crouched and the hitbox is disjointed, so uppercut likely won't work.

The string is one giant mixup. Also, because f22b2 > Charge is uninterruptable outside of elbow, this means that d1 is possibly uninterruptable period and that f22b2 is +2 on block.
I still contest that the Elbow is 6 frames and the same speed as Kung Lao's Spin and X-Ray. If it's actually 5 frames, then either training mode displays it incorrectly, or every single execution frame I've calculated is off by 1 frame... or both.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
THTB said:
Idk...if it is 6 frames, then spin should interrupt that particular string.
That is a good point. I will have to re-test f+2,2,b+2 again. The blocking is so stupid in this game that you definitely have to test punishment and interruption a dozen times. Brady used to tell me that Reptile's Elbow Dash is 5 frames and Kung Lao's Spin is 6 frames. Old Kano's Up Ball used to be 7 frames. Raiden's Eletric Fly is 8 frames. Etc.
 

DrDogg

Noob
Idk...if it is 6 frames, then spin should interrupt that particular string.
That is a good point. I will have to re-test f+2,2,b+2 again. The blocking is so stupid in this game that you definitely have to test punishment and interruption a dozen times. Brady used to tell me that Reptile's Elbow Dash is 5 frames and Kung Lao's Spin is 6 frames. Old Kano's Up Ball used to be 7 frames. Raiden's Eletric Fly is 8 frames. Etc.
In this situation (and many situations in MK9), frames aren't the only factor. I strongly believe that Reptile's Dash is the same speed as Kung Lao's Spin (5 frame start up on both if you don't count the first active/impact frame). However, Reptile's Dash moves him forward, while Kung Lao's Spin remains stationary. When compared to Raiden's Superman, the Dash takes 13 frames from max range, while Superman takes 20 frames to go full screen. So in some situations you also have to factor in the speed the attack travels forward.
 

VIDA

Focused Grace and Intensity
Not sure where to post this but I would REALLY like to know how to beat this char. He is by far the most annoying one to play against. His shoulder charge is spammable and makes it insane to ge up close. While he's very weak to cross ups it feels really difficult at least for me to get my char to get in at all let alone a position to cross up.

I understand that blocked charge puts the char out of distance for a second one, and an at-distance attack can be employed. If he's sapmming he gets hit, if not he eats chip. However Im not satisfied with that.

Also, off flooring Kenshi its hard to do the cross up thing again cause charge and upslash as wakeups are too good and he's almost never close enough on wakeup to have a char in close enough to do so safely.

His other zoning tools can be dash blocked yeah but shoulder charge is still that last awful line of defense. So as a zoner overall he still gives me headaches.

Help very much appreciated. Im usually not one to complain and whine with these things but tbh I despise this char, and his charge spam reminds me of upball spam somewhat. If it helps I play Kitana, Ermac (alt) and a bit of Skarlet. I should mention that cancelling kunai with Skarlet does seem to help but its a work in progress that hasnt been fully tested yet.
 
I was playing around in the lab today with kenshi trying to set up some corner frame traps and what not when I set the opponent on jump and found this. That if you use b2 in the corner and they happen to jump then you can follow this up with d1 rising karma 21b2 spirit charge for 32 percent. If this is old I am sry but I just didn't see it any where.
 
Hey folks, wanted to share a few insights on Kenshi that I've been working on for a little while now. Some of this may already be known, so pardon me if it is, but I'd rather take that chance by sharing it than not. Also, some of it may be highly individualistic to my play style and therefore not be of any use to you in particular, but again, maybe it will be. I'll just go down the list I've been keeping:

First, I've been taking to doing the following reset combo at the start of matches, both for damage potential and to test my opponent:
f2, 2, b1, short dash, f2, 2, b1, short dash, (OTG RESET) f3, 2, rising karma, short dash, f2, 2, b1, (OTG RESET) spirit charge
If you get the whole thing, it nets around 55% damage. Obviously, you can choose to end it as a real combo any time you like for the guaranteed damage.

Second, I've had a lot of success poking with f3, 2, canceling into rising karma on hit, or into close tkslash on block, since that means they're usually blocking low. You can do the same thing from extremely close range with 2,1, b2/f4 for the same kind of mixup.

Third, I've found that if you're fighting an opponent with an upwardly rising teleport (Kung Lao, Sektor, Noob, etc.), and you read that they're going to use it on wakeup (common at least with scrubs when they get knocked down far away (by a spirit charge, for example)), you can time tkflurry to hit AFTER the invincibility frames but BEFORE they complete the teleport. It's not that hard, and if you get it down, you can consistently knock them out of wake-up teleports. You can do this with tkslash, too, but you have to read the distance, and the timing is a little less forgiving.

Next, I've found an interesting option for Kenshi's weak crossup defense (against crossover jump punches, teleports, etc.): when you see that someone is crossing you up, input a spirit charge AS they go to the other side of you (you have to learn the right timing, but it's mid-teleport or right as they pass over your head in a jump). If you do it right, it doesn't matter what side they wind up on. On one side, the spirit charge will come out and knock them away. On the other, you'll get Kenshi's b2 overhead, which has a weird hitbox and forward motion that is pretty good at beating out crossups. It's definitely no Kung Lao spin, but I find it to be fairly effective.

Finally, a general point about Kenshi's playstyle that I thought was common knowledge but I guess is not: I've found that Kenshi plays optimally from about 2/3 to 3/4 screen range. Within this "window," he has a lot of advantages. He can zone with his long range moves and still react to projectiles. An advancing opponent can only take about one step forward before being in rising karma/spirit charge range, and cannot jump over him without stepping into that range. And his long normal pokes (f2, b2, f3, etc.) are very threatening. Additionally, Kenshi's walking speed is strangely fast compared to most. Don't be afraid to just walk back and forth (cautiously) to maintain this kind of spacing.

Anyway, that's it for the moment. I hope at least some of this proves useful to someone. Cheers!
 

LOCO

DADDY BARAKA
don't know where to post this and not trying to make an ask kenshi thread since he's a [ban incoming]:)

but how do you go about beating kenshi? I can't even get close to the dude
 

Tolkeen

/wrists
Didn't know where else to put this, but has anyone else tried to stuff an opponents string with EX RK, only to have you remain blocking but still lose a meter? Is there something wrong with my execution? Or is it just a bug?