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Tech - Sub-Zero Testing Sub-Zero's safety by Tom Brady

Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
Damn. Kenshi vs Sub looks like its mk9 all over again. If only Sub had a safe option to put a clone there...
 
Under_The_Mayo

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
The most glaring thing about this video is all the claims that such and such character is terrible. I´m just sitting back and laughing at it all. Cassie is top tier and braindead! Cassie sucks she has no way to start offense!

I´m working hard on understanding Quan, but you will not see me anywhere talking about how good or bad he is. I have no right this early in the game. Especially when I´m no where near the top of my game with him.

Remember when MK9 came out and Ermac was considered a counter to kung lao? Kabal lost to Jax. Kitana was top 5. Smoke was mid tier. So was Sonya. Nightwolf was viable. Kenshi flew under the radar for 6 months. So yeah, I´m not gonna listen to anyone´s opinion on how bad their character is til maybe Autumn.
 
Absinthesize

Absinthesize

Noob
im watching this video, but i have to bring up a point

almost everything im seeing is the character burning a bar of meter to get thru the clone

the clone costs nothing

so how is this a good example?

so far the only good example of seen is briggs girl and her machine gun. thats it. that and maybe teleporters.

ill be impressed if i see more non meter being used.

i also think the issue here is the use of hte word safe.

sure clone cancel isnt safe in the traditional sense, as youve showcased, but its still largely safe unless someone wants to use up all there meter.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Pig Of The Hut said:
@Tom Brady do f4 clone you said it yourself and didn't show the other side of things . No good sub will do f42 clone on Kenshi

Be real here, also what was that ghetto string u did vs Kenshi where he punished w rk? Who uses that?

Also who said he needed to be nerfed? No one I know. And who said Jaqui is bad? Sounds like you're talking to the wrong people
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Sonic fox said subby needed to be "toned down"
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
John Grizzly said:
Are there really people saying Jacqui isn't that good?
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No. I love Tom but that's a fabricated narrative to serve a point he's making. NOBODY is saying Jacqui's bad. If anything, it's quite the opposite. I miss the first week of MKX already (last week), when people were just playing and figuring out stuff, instead of the complaints and counter-complaints we're getting now.
 
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Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
@Tom Brady, I feel like you glazed over the fact that the f4 option select is amazing in order to help serve your point. And also, yeah some characters get a combo from a reversal, but if they have to use a bar to punish you then why is Sub using a bar to make things safe and potentially trick the opponent into wasting a bar and even getting punished for it such a bad thing? Especially since some characters like Kitana don't get a combo from a reversal.

All from a non-Sub player's perspective.
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
By the way, I really, really don't think Sub-Zero should be nerfed at this point since we still don't know much about the game, match-ups haven't been developed, we don't know how good/bad other characters are...BUT:

History taught us that when videos are made that show specific character punishes to certain situations in order to show how a character isn't as good/safe as people think it is...it probably is.

For reference see: Deathstroke, Aquaman. April 2013.

PS: Just because a character can punish Sub-Zero in certain situations doesn't mean they're better or worse than people think. X character could still be bad and be able to punish Sub-Zero's ice clone cancels.
 
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RexyWrecks

RexyWrecks

RTSD All Day. I'm going in. No Vaseline.
I understand that you're trying to help the community, but you shouldn't have made this vid. Let the people figure it out on their own. My training partner and I took sub zero into the lab 2 days ago and pretty much figured out over half the stuff you mention in the video. It takes a little bit of effort, but if you're not willing to put the time in, then you can continue to get blown up. Honestly I'm a Sonya main and I think sub is fine. Leave it to Tom to spoon feed the community -_-. Good job though, thorough analysis.
 
Kevin 7

Kevin 7

The bad boy scout
HoneyBee said:
D'Vorah can't punish a lot of his ice clone strings. Guess she's one of the 5% lol
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D'Vorah I would think is one of the best characters to deal with clone. Maybe not necessarily "punish" clone. But being she has a disjointed hitbox on her some of her normals. She can stick normals out through the clone without concern of being cloned. F2, d3
 
chemist4hire

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
BillStickers said:
Yeah good thing her McDonald's arch f2 can just hop right over that thang and beat his ass, not to mention she has a tracking launcher and excellent zoning tools.
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Her f2 is great but it moves you forward right into the clone. And her from the deep is so slow you can back dash or forward dash when you see it start up. I am not saying she is horrible, but I dont think the examples you posted are what make her good.
 
BillStickers

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
chemist4hire said:
Her f2 is great but it moves you forward right into the clone. And her from the deep is so slow you can back dash or forward dash when you see it start up. I am not saying she is horrible, but I dont think the examples you posted are what make her good.
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Please don't do that annoying shit Injustice players did where you list all of the opponents options in neutral when we're clearly talking about reactionary attacks. Also she recovers faster than the startup of "from the deep," so you are able to bait the opponent into moving and snagging them with another move.
 
chemist4hire

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
BillStickers said:
Please don't do that annoying shit Injustice players did where you list all of the opponents options in neutral when we're clearly talking about reactionary attacks. Also she recovers faster than the startup of "from the deep," so you are able to bait the opponent into moving and snagging them with another move.
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Im saying, against subzero you wouldnt react to his pressure strings with f2 or f1 because both of those strings move you forward, and if he is canceling blocked strings into clone you will get caught. You would react with her long range normals like d3 or d4 . Reacting with from the deep is tricker but is good to mix in. I dont think the tracking is as good, its better used as a meaty. She has great zoning and footsie tools.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
chemist4hire said:
Im saying, against subzero you wouldnt react to his pressure strings with f2 or f1 because both of those strings move you forward, and if he is canceling blocked strings into clone you will get caught. You would react with her long range normals like d3 or d4 . Reacting with from the deep is tricker but is good to mix in. I dont think the tracking is as good, its better used as a meaty. She has great zoning and footsie tools.
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With F2 vs Klone you are probably getting frozen because you are moving slightly forward before pressing F2. I went to test this with B12 klone and F42 klone, didn't get frozen once. It also happens when you mistime the punish and Sub blocks the F2.
 
E

Eji1700

Noob
If i get to use a bar to completely shut down almost every option a character has and then get free damage (and possibly a juggle) off of it, then yes that's absolutely a good use of a bar. It doesn't matter if sub's clone is free because it becomes extremely limited the moment you get your first meter, and in this game meter building is cake.
 
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