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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 General Discussion

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
Yeah, Tekken has continually built it's engine for years, which has created a huge legacy curve (in fact it's the game archilies heel when it comes to new comers). It's tough, and I still play when I get the chance.
Yeah man I agree, the side stepping can get you dizzy sometimes if you are in a heated competition.
 
I'm watching the latest AvoidingthePuddle podcast and they are talking about some pretty relative topics that occur recently in our community that is happening in theirs such as:

-Boycotting tourney events (and why it's a bad idea)
-How a top player's opinion on a game or character detrimental to a scene, or affect patching by devs. (for example saying "mk is dead" could make a lot of followers drop the game because they may respect the player and take it to heart)
-How the online community perceive things really differently from offline
-How games are in their early stages so an opinion should never be set and stone.
-etc.

I'll post the time stamps for it later, it's pretty interesting to see an old school players like Aris and Rip perceive these events.
 

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
I'm watching the latest AvoidingthePuddle podcast and they are talking about some pretty relative topics that occur recently in our community that is happening in theirs such as:

-Boycotting tourney events (and why it's a bad idea)
-How a top player's opinion on a game or character detrimental to a scene, or affect patching by devs. (for example saying "mk is dead" could make a lot of followers drop the game because they may respect the player and take it to heart)
-How the online community perceive things really differently from offline
-How games are in their early stages so an opinion should never be set and stone.
-etc.

I'll post the time stamps for it later, it's pretty interesting to see an old school players like Aris and Rip perceive these events.
Damn, even if top players say "MK is dead etc." Ima still play it. Im not gonna follow them just b/c they said it, and some ppl do actually which is sad. They may be "celebrities" which some ppl think they are in the FGC community but LBSH they are just human as you and me, If I did see them IRL I would just say "Sup" or something not like "Oh can I get your autograph" lol but I see your point.
 
Yeah man I agree, the side stepping can get you dizzy sometimes if you are in a heated competition.
Yeah true. If I can recall, I think tekken 1 didn't have a side step, or walls, so yeah the newer tekkens are pretty different from the 1st one. In the newer tekkens you cancel anything into anything lol. And yeah the canceling can look a bit ridiculous at times, but it's actually what drew me to the game (and tons of people away lol)
 

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
Yeah true. If I can recall, I think tekken 1 didn't have a side step, or walls, so yeah the newer tekkens are pretty different from the 1st one. In the newer tekkens you cancel anything into anything lol. And yeah the canceling can look a bit ridiculous at times, but it's actually what drew me to the game (and tons of people away lol)
Yeah, thats game is crazy and fun at times. It grew alot but doing combos in the air with your Tag partner etc. In the older games I didnt think they had that at the time doing combos with your partner and continuing the combo like they do in TTT2.
 
Damn, even if top players say "MK is dead etc." Ima still play it. Im not gonna follow them just b/c they said it, and some ppl do actually which is sad. They may be "celebrities" which some ppl think they are in the FGC community but LBSH they are just human as you and me, If I did see them IRL I would just say "Sup" or something not like "Oh can I get your autograph" lol but I see your point.
You'd be surprised, and a lot of people never want to admit it, but a lot do bandwagon. A top player saying "a game is dead" or "this character is top tier" or "this character is fine, all you need to do is this" can be spread by word of mouth, and repeated as fact. I've seen it happen back during mk when people where saying johnny cage was top 5, or how Jax was a bad match up for Kabal.

Is prime example of this was Reo back in mk9 during the year 2012. He could pretty much make thread on anything, and a lot of people would eat it up as fact (even troll threads). This is no disrespect to Reo, he's an amazing player, but it's just fascinating how he could say one thing about a character, and if it wasn't to far fetched, a lot of people wouldn't second guess to agree with him. And with the tourney record like his, I can't be surprised lol.

Perfect example was when he posted some new Subzero "tech" and a huge portion of the Sub forum fell for it. Wish I could find that thread, I totally fell for it too haha.
 
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VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
You'd be surprised, and a lot of people never want to admit it, but a lot do bandwagon. A top player saying "a game is dead" or "this character is top tier" or "this character is fine, all you need to do is this" can be spread by word of mouth, and repeated as fact. I've seen it happen back during mk when people where saying johnny cage was top 5, or how Jax was a bad match up for Kabal.

Is prime example of this was Reo back in mk9 during the year 2012. He could pretty much make thread on anything, and a lot of people would eat it up as fact (even troll threads). This is no disrespect to Reo, he's an amazing player, but it's just fascinating how he could say one thing about a character, and if it wasn't to far fetched, a lot of people wouldn't second guess to agree with him. And with the tourney record like his, I can't be surprised lol.

Prefect example was when he posted some new Subzero "tech" and a huge portion of the Sub forum fell for it. Wish I could find that thread, I totally fell for it too haha.
Yeah, a lil advice and tips here and there is not bad, but ppl kissing ass to top players they have no dignity what so ever. IMO Jax vs Kabal is evenly matched. Jax can counter attack Kabal with is Ground pound if he is far and they have their zoning fireballs etc. And Johnny Cage can be a bastard with his Frame traps and footsies etc. I wonder if Tom Brady fell for that thread since he mains Sub Zero.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I love TTT2 for the fact that you can destroy the 1st opponent's char pretty bad, then bait a tag so you can blow up the incoming char pretty hard too, lol.
 

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
I love TTT2 for the fact that you can destroy the 1st opponent's char pretty bad, then bait a tag so you can blow up the incoming char pretty hard too, lol.
The only thing that pissed me off in TTT2 and SFXT is when one character is dead you automatically lose. MK9 had the right Idea as how if one of your characters is dead and your Tag partner still has life the match keeps going and doesnt end automatically.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The only thing that pissed me off in TTT2 and SFXT is when one character is dead you automatically lose. MK9 had the right Idea as how if one of your characters is dead and your Tag partner still has life the match keeps going and doesnt end automatically.
The Tag System from TTT2 is fine, the goal is to incentivate ppl to tag carefully, and also to actually tag to keep fighting.

In MK, ppl didn't even had to tag, they just wait until their first characters to die off...

I hated the tag system at the beggining, but then i started to love it, the only thing i hate most in the Tekken Tag 2 is rage and useless Kunimitsu's parry.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
No punishes, couldn't sidestep or block nooo this is embarrassing why did you upload thiiiis :D... I saw you whiff strings with Hwo and tried to EWGF, but still got hit by his moves as you were throwing out entire strings multiple times and daamn I got a bit annoyed after losing with Kaz/Bruce since I was absolutely certain after the 1st 2 games that I blocked that steve f3 - 1 launcher all those times it did hit later on as well lol hahaa, well online is online and it was too laggy to even do max dmg combos or any combos for that matter lol and 2-3 bars is 2-3 bars, I got my revenge with a couple of Snake Edges from Bryan though #KAPPA :p.

I am getting my groove back, I have rekindled my passion for this game and have been playing on a regular basis after taking a 6 month break and now I realize that I only need to go through Hwoarang, Zafina, Raven, Roger/Alex and Feng, Alisa and Yoshi again and I will have a basic understanding of how to deal with the entire cast (in theory), not the same as having actual match-up experience, but I have started playing ranked to work on my defence and preparing for different kinds of play styles (the lower ranks do the dumbest shit you can't even predict them they play so retarded lol) and not just playing with the same 1-3 guys on my friends list . Still can't break throws 99% of the time but on anticipation I can see the hands and break correctly now after anticipating the throws on common setups like defending vs Lars at the wall or after eating any pokes/punishers from King/A.King or after getting hit by Devil Jin db2.

I am thinking of getting some gear to record matches as well and I have been thinking about making a complete video breakdown of Bruce's moves on hit and on block and dissecting all the meta behind his poking and ranged game, sort of like a complete tutorial with all the setups and frames and what not explained. People keep bitching about how he is cheap/OP/EZ mode and I would like to contribute to help stop this bitching.
 
Long quote.
Haha, yeah I was getting away with a lot of bstuff during those matches. Even Steve's ducking 3 to 1,1 can be full combo punished (and hwoarang b3 isn't safe either). I notice in tekken nearly all strings have some kind of weakness (duck, high crush, gap, sidestep, etc) which is the reason why the game fascinates me so much. Really need to get back into it. I also watched a bruce anti-character guide to see when to duck or punish his strings, probably should check that out. :p

Oh, and I HATE SNAKE EDGE! It's so slow, and you see it coming, but still get hit :mad:
 
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Also, I'm currently watching JDCR on avoidingthepuddle's podcast...and he mentions that the legacy curve and the overall difficulty of picking up the game has discourage people in the Korean arcades from turning out. Yes you heard correctly, in KOREA the game is considered difficult to play. He even mentioned new players would get bopped, get bored, and won't bother showing up anymore.

This is why I have no doubt TTT2 is going to be the last version of "Tekken". I'm not sure how drastically the chance is going to be, but the skill gap and legacy curve of tekken has been an archilies heel for the series. To put this in perspective, JDCR won FR and had only practiced around 5 hrs a week (that's not a lot for tekken), and furuthermore, didn't even use his main team (feels using Armour king is boring). Just waiting to see what the next move is for Namco.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
JDCR's Dragunov is godlike. Doesn't really matter what characters he plays, the way he plays is the definition of solid.

I would hate to see the franchise get streamlined to have more appeal to casuals. Tekken Revolution was terrible. All they need to do is stop adding more characters and concentrate on refining the existing ones. I am not talking about nerfs and buffs, but there are some strings and moves with every character that are completely useless. The game mechanics are fine as they are. There is a character for everyone to suit every playstyle possible. If one decides to get into the game, one just has to accept the fact that it's gonna take a long time to get good, the depth is the whole point and juice of this game and even if one only plays once a week it's still better than nothing to keep ones touch. It's just the initial grind one has to get through when picking up this game, it'll get easier the more time one decides to put in.

I didn't play the game for 6 months, got back and remembered how fun it was. I don't think I can ever completely drop this game, it's just too much fun and the amount of options in all situations will always keep the game fresh and exciting.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Accidentally made a long-ass post on Kor's Tekken academy on some key stuff about Bryan so I am gonna post it here as well:

Using taunt is the least of your worries when picking up Bryan. It's a very good gimmick, but it's still just a gimmick. Learning how to use his other tools properly first is more important. Bryan is an extremely versatile character, only thing you have to be very aware of at all times, is that his tracking is somewhat bad (df1 tracks slightly to his left, f2,1 has some tracking to his right on the first hit and the second hit tracks to his left, the string can be used as a poke by itself even though it's -10 because people will expect the last hit and you will go unpunished a lot. Bryan is only at +4 or less on a lot of his pokes on hit so you constantly have to be aware of how your opponent will react to your pressure as well as how they are looking to score their damage when they are pressuring you. At range 0 Bryan faces a dilemma: If you are looking to kill your opp's stepping, you open yourself up to getting hit by 10 frame NCC's, if you are looking to force a frametrap with his jab strings or df2 after landing pokes, then you risk getting sidestepped and launched. His lows have full tracking to their respective sides, but you obviously risk getting hopkicked if you abuse them too much.

Bryan is one of the fastest characters in the game at range 1 to 2 and this is where he truly shines, when you have a lifelead and it's time to lame out the rest of the round, you can keep your opponent out forever if you are really on point with your movement and when you choose to commit to attacking.

Some moves and how to use them:

b1 - if your opponent isn't stepping and he is giving you too much respect you can initiate offence with this move almost any time you please as it's around +3 on block and launches on CH. Be wary as it's slow and linear and it's quite hazardous to use this vs Mishimas as you need to respect the EWGF.

fF2 - very fast long range block and whiff punisher. Very tempting to throw this out vs shitty players all the time, but make a habit of not using it too much, lest ye be ducked and launched if your opp reads you.

ws3 - performing this move out of slither step gives you one of the best mids (12 fr start-up! Also your 12 fr ws punisher) and CH launchers in the game. It's those ambigious situations where your opponent is a little too eager to pressure you and getting a bit too comfortable with their jab-df1-low poke-sidestep flowchart and other bs that you just say fuck you too and throw this out from qcf and chances are you get a CH launch. Second hit has to be done immediately if you are looking to hit your opponent out of their 10 frame punish attempt. If they respect the second hit too much you are free to abuse this move anytime you see that you have a chance to get the CH. Ws3 is uninterruptable after a CH db3.

df1 -series - somewhat abusable vs characters with no parries or reversals, practice the proper rhytm and hit confirming into the 3rd hit and then the 2 ender. do not perform the last 1 before the 2 as the 2 may whiff if you try to hit confirm this on an off-axis hit. the 2 is only +1 on hit and -15 on block so never mash this out. df1 into db3 works as a nice pseudo-frame advantage mix-up. 15 fr start-up.

qcb4 - dash into soccer kick is guaranteed after the following moves: b3, 1+2 on CH (1+2 on CH only), fF4 on regular hit, qcb2 hitconfirmed into 4, df4, df1+2 sabaki, qcb3 on CH (not sure), 1,2,3 (last hit on CH only, I am not sure about this one either). Dash into db2 will float opponents trying to quickstand or backroll after these knockdowns as well as a few others, I can't remember which throw it was where db2 hits backturned if your opponent quickstands.

qcb2 - this move is godlike, learn how to hit confirm this into the 4 and random duckers and hopekickers are gonna get honest soon. Full tracking to right.

qcb3 - your opponent is giving you too much respect, throw this in every now and then to make them anxious. +4 on hit, KD on CH. Full tracking to left.

f3 - the go-to move after a taunt cancel if you are fighting people who press buttons when they see you taunt. 0 on block(!), launches on CH. Linear.

f2,1,4 - 15 fr mid ez mode taunt follow-up. Hard knockdown, use b1 afterwards to continue momentum on quickstanders. Do not raw tag after landing this one, you are not safe.

db3 - high crushing low you will be using quite a bit. Full tracking to left. Around -11 or -12 on block, negative on regular hit.

fF4 - -10 on block so be aware, Lee/A.Ogre can punish you and at deep blocks a dick jab will "punish" you also. Pair this up with b1 for your ranged arsenal. Very fast and has a slight built-in sidestep.

qcf1+2 - kinda like Bruce b2 and Lars fF1+2, except this move is -12 on block. Usable on reads when you know your opp is gonna dash in and press buttons. CH launcher. Wallsplat on regular hit. Usable as a combo ender.

d4 - defensive/keep out low poke, 0 on hit, around -11 or -12 on block. I like to backdash into backsway after this to see if my opponent presses buttons. if they do, punish with either qcb2 or qcb4. Full tracking to right. D3 tracks fully to left and leaves you at 0 on hit as well right in your opponents face.

3+4 - launches next to walls as does the second hit of df2,3, pick up with f4,1 for the combo. I prefer this over b4 since this has enough pushback despite being around -8 on block to allow you to sidestep a lot of your opponents ranged moves. A favourite is to mash this move repeatedly if you know your opp is gonna attempt to dash into counterpokes after blocking it. Dash into db2 will launch scrubs who won't tech roll the knockdown, same thing applies for the 2nd hit of df2,3.

db2 - your fastest low hitbox mid for fighting capos and oki pick ups. 15 fr, linear. Heavy frame advantage on hit.

b2,1 - initial combo filler on class 1 launchers. b2,1,4 is your go-to TA! filler midscreen. B2,1-ss cancel into f4,1 is max damage TA! filler at the wall.

1,2,1 - last hit needs to be delayed in order to be a mix-up as mashing out this string will jail and prevent your opponent from ducking or pressing buttons between the 2-jab and last hit. Launches on CH, sidewalk left into db2 to pick up for a combo.

df2 - completely linear 13 frame mid poke, the kick extension is an NCC and can be slightly delayed. The 1 extension is high, natural and does not jail. 13 fr punisher: df2,1. 1,4 is a better 10 fr punisher than 2,3 due to the +4 frames and you being left in your opponents face. At 14 frames you get the Jet uppercut.

d2,3 - second hit launches on CH, is -10, but not usable, unless fighting scrubs in ranked of course. D2 by itself can give you a little bit of a pseudo- frame advantage.

1+2 - important safe mid homing move you will be using, just be aware not to get CH'd as this is 17 fr start-up. Extension is -14 on block. NC.

ss1 - launches on CH for terminal damage and on regular ssr hit you get a guaranteed d3+4,2 or d3,2. A bit slow given the range and awkward to use. Can be used vs opponents with shitty movement. 0 on block.

bb4 - nice round ender and hits grounded for good damage, backdash like a mothafucka and throw this out all the time vs shitty capos and xiaoyououshithooker. Just because, you know, fuck em'

When you are left at -4 to -7 on block be aware that Bryan's b1+2 parry works very nicely vs 10-15 frame counterpoke-punches. Always input fF2 afterwards to get a mach breaker on left punch parries.

Aaaaand there is plenty of other stuff but these ones are pretty important IMO, not obvious at first glance like punishers and the like, but some stuff you want to know none the less. Watch that Mr. Naps tutorial and welcome to psycho tier.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
I finally got around to figuring out the Tag crash bait/punish wall combos for my teams. If the dmg drop is less then 10 points then I'd say it's practical to do the TC bait wall combos every time instead of max dmg, unless you are absolutely certain the max dmg combo kills.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Any TYM-members on EU PSN still playing the game? Kinda sad that most of the people who were really hype for the game when it came out dropped it completely before 2013. Well, let them enjoy their Super counter picker 4 AE and Injustice: Counterpickers among us.

If any TTT2 enthusiasts are still out there let me know and I'll add you to the conversation chain between me and @smokey so we can discuss tech and such.