Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

[NaCl man]

You can now duck and whiff punish with while standing launchers, which used to be impossible before.

When you could do so in previous iterations, the character was mid tier or worse.

B1 still a i13 ch launch. Still good just can't be completely brain dead with it.the nerf to df2 is the killer imo.

Edit: oh yeah and fuk can suck a dick lol

 

[M2Dave]

B1 still a i13 ch launch. Still good just can't be completely brain dead with it.the nerf to df2 is the killer imo.

I agree.

The point is that Namco have engaged in tier shifting. The developers have turned a high execution, high reward character into a high execution, low reward character. This type of design has never worked in Tekken, at least not competitively. The best examples are characters like Heihachi and Lee. You rarely see them in tournaments for this reason.

 

[DeftMonk]

I agree.

The point is that Namco have engaged in tier shifting. The developers have turned a high execution, high reward character into a high execution, low reward character. This type of design has never worked in Tekken, at least not competitively. The best examples are characters like Heihachi and Lee. You rarely see them in tournaments for this reason.

While I do think it sucks for the people that put the time in to learn the df2 combo. I don’t see much wrong with namco’s intended purpose of trying to nerf the top tiers to bring them in line with the rest of the cast.

 

[NaCl man]

While I do think it sucks for the people that put the time in to learn the df2 combo. I don’t see much wrong with namco’s intended purpose of trying to nerf the top tiers to bring them in line with the rest of the cast.

I think this is spot on and the way it should be done. I think the goal is to make the whole cast mid tier. There will always be top teir characters but if the cast has specific strengths and weaknesses it makes for a better all round game. This is why I like the nerf the top and buff the weak. Not make everybody top. If everybody is top the game becomes to random imo.

 

[DeftMonk]

I think this is spot on and the way it should be done. I think the goal is to make the whole cast mid tier. There will always be top teir characters but if the cast has specific strengths and weaknesses it makes for a better all round game. This is why I like the nerf the top and buff the weak. Not make everybody top. If everybody is top the game becomes to random imo.

I agree and the cast becomes too homogonized. I don’t want everyone having strong punish game/unseeable low launcher/wall carry/good fast tracking moves/amazing ch mid launcher/amazing armored move. Playing around ur character’s weakness while exploiting your opponent’s weakness is part of what makes Tekken fun to me.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I agree.

The point is that Namco have engaged in tier shifting. The developers have turned a high execution, high reward character into a high execution, low reward character. This type of design has never worked in Tekken, at least not competitively. The best examples are characters like Heihachi and Lee. You rarely see them in tournaments for this reason.

they did the same to Jin, a character with high requirement in tekken knowledge, now he is a high execution character with higher tekken knowledge to master and mediocre rewards which used to be very consistent.

turning high level chars into low reward characters will never work, not saying they didn't need weakness, but some of these things are definitely too pushing. so ppl just end up dropping said characters to favor something much easier.

 

[DeftMonk]

The new chic is actually pretty fun regardless if her story is pretty lame.

 

[M2Dave]

While I do think it sucks for the people that put the time in to learn the df2 combo. I don’t see much wrong with namco’s intended purpose of trying to nerf the top tiers to bring them in line with the rest of the cast.

Not every top tier character was nerfed, though. Akuma, Devil Jin, Geese, Leroy, Paul, etc. are the same. Besides, I have already discussed how making high execution characters weaker leads to tournament players neglecting them in favor of the lower execution characters, who may also be higher on the tier list. You mentioned Steve's CH d/f+2 combo. Why spend hours in practice mode learning it when you can choose Leroy, who is a superior character now anyway, and ignore execution requirements?

While Tekken 7 has arguably been the most fundamentally sound fighting game of this generation, the balance has been a roller coaster ride, from Leroy to Fahkumram and from buffing characters to removing the same buffs one month later. Namco evidently lacks direction so they allow Twitter to balance the game for them, which is the real cause for the randomness that NaCl Man referred to.

I still stand by my original post. I genuinely believe that this most recent patch is one of the worst that Namco has ever released for this game. The game will be heading into the wrong direction if they keep balancing in this manner.

 

[DeftMonk]

Not every top tier character was nerfed, though. Akuma, Devil Jin, Geese, Leroy, Paul, etc. are the same. Besides, I have already discussed how making high execution characters weaker leads to tournament players neglecting them in favor of the lower execution characters, who may also be higher on the tier list. You mentioned Steve's CH d/f+2 combo. Why spend hours in practice mode learning it when you can choose Leroy, who is a superior character now anyway, and ignore execution requirements?

While Tekken 7 has arguably been the most fundamentally sound fighting game of this generation, the balance has been a roller coaster ride, from Leroy to Fahkumram and from buffing characters to removing the same buffs one month later. Namco evidently lacks direction so they allow Twitter to balance the game for them, which is the real cause for the randomness that NaCl Man referred to.

I still stand by my original post. I genuinely believe that this most recent patch is one of the worst that Namco has ever released for this game. The game will be heading into the wrong direction if they keep balancing in this manner.

Honestly the only balancing decision they made and changed due to backlash was the Mishima one recently so let’s not act like its something that happens all the time. Tekken is a much different game to balance that mk11 so failing to perfect it is far more understandable. Even the pros thought akuma sucked when he was actually far stronger than he is now for a long time. And as u mentioned the b1 nerf scares u but I think as I said the other day the df2 nerf is worse.

I think Steve will be fine honestly. That being said I dunno why they didn’t nerf devil Jin as well. He’s kinda out of hand at the moment.

 

[DeftMonk]

I just saw the new Button Check video and I was pretty happy players seem to be bringing light to the fact cheating on pc is rampant. In ranked for me atm 25%-30% People are korean backdashing at the speed of light and auto throw breaking/low parrying. As soon as I see that KBD that is faster than jdcr I know whats up and I don't throw any lows at all. Maybe it is because I am in china but it is a bit rediculous to be honest.

 

[NaCl man]

Not every top tier character was nerfed, though. Akuma, Devil Jin, Geese, Leroy, Paul, etc. are the same. Besides, I have already discussed how making high execution characters weaker leads to tournament players neglecting them in favor of the lower execution characters, who may also be higher on the tier list. You mentioned Steve's CH d/f+2 combo. Why spend hours in practice mode learning it when you can choose Leroy, who is a superior character now anyway, and ignore execution requirements?

While Tekken 7 has arguably been the most fundamentally sound fighting game of this generation, the balance has been a roller coaster ride, from Leroy to Fahkumram and from buffing characters to removing the same buffs one month later. Namco evidently lacks direction so they allow Twitter to balance the game for them, which is the real cause for the randomness that NaCl Man referred to.

I still stand by my original post. I genuinely believe that this most recent patch is one of the worst that Namco has ever released for this game. The game will be heading into the wrong direction if they keep balancing in this manner.

That is season 3 and to a slightly lesser note season 4. If they didn't add anything else and just nerfed Steve and jin to where they are now when season 3 dropped, apart from the nerfed movement the game would be near perfect.

 

[Swindle]

So balanced, I can taste the balance.
Mmmmmm, balancey.

 

[NaCl man]

I just saw the new Button Check video and I was pretty happy players seem to be bringing light to the fact cheating on pc is rampant. In ranked for me atm 25%-30% People are korean backdashing at the speed of light and auto throw breaking/low parrying. As soon as I see that KBD that is faster than jdcr I know whats up and I don't throw any lows at all. Maybe it is because I am in china but it is a bit rediculous to be honest.

Harada just posted that there is a test anti cheat in the latest patch for pc. He also said report any cheaters to him

 

[DeftMonk]

Harada just posted that there is a test anti cheat in the latest patch for pc. He also said report any cheaters to himView attachment 18103View attachment 18103

Niiiiiice

 

[Ashesfall]

Harada just posted that there is a test anti cheat in the latest patch for pc. He also said report any cheaters to himView attachment 18103View attachment 18103

OH MY GOD SHAO KAHN!

Will my biggest dream finally become reality?
Will cheaters and assholes (extreme disconnectors) finally be targeted and banned or at least temporarily timed out for playing against humans?
Go fucking cheat on the CPU you losers!
(I hope I will never have such an asshole as a real friend!
"NOW DIE A LONELY DEATH, FINISH THEM!" - Shao Kahn)

In MK11 most disconnectors end into a Quitality (extra nice way to win) AND you still get the win(!), so it's ok to me, but some methods of disconnects are still not granting me the win.
(Most people who actually do it, have a Russian name ... "hacker" scene there is huge, I noticed that in MK11 on steam.)

Good news for fighting game fair play gamers
(Losing in a 1vs1 is not hurting you, it will make you stronger! Don't be an asshole ...)

PS: Just yesterday I read in the news that CoD Warzone banned 13.000(!) accounts - great news!

 

[DeftMonk]

OH MY GOD SHAO KAHN!

Will my biggest dream finally become reality?
Will cheaters and assholes (extreme disconnectors) finally be targeted and banned or at least temporarily timed out for playing against humans?
Go fucking cheat on the CPU you losers!
(I hope I will never have such an asshole as a real friend!
"NOW DIE A LONELY DEATH, FINISH THEM!" - Shao Kahn)

In MK11 most disconnectors end into a Quitality (extra nice way to win) AND you still get the win(!), so it's ok to me, but some methods of disconnects are still not granting me the win.
(Most people who actually do it, have a Russian name ... "hacker" scene there is huge, I noticed that in MK11 on steam.)

Good news for fighting game fair play gamers
(Losing in a 1vs1 is not hurting you, it will make you stronger! Don't be an asshole ...)

PS: Just yesterday I read in the news that CoD Warzone banned 13.000(!) accounts - great news!

I highly doubt they wlil do anything about the disconnecting. Probably some anti cheat that catches people using scripts.

 

[NaCl man]

Lydia busted. I'm calling it. Lyidaroy 2021 lol.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lydia busted. I'm calling it. Lyidaroy 2021 lol.

what changed?
i know for a fact she is linear af

 

[NaCl man]

what changed?
i know for a fact she is linear af

She has good tools to stop you side stepping in db2(drag d2) and her 22 string. Her b1 is active for 2 frames which will shut down side step even if she is -3 and bigs can't step it. Her pressure is hella good. You can't ws punish her non jailing mid highs because she has fuck all wiff recovery. Her mix up game is nasty, her oki is nasty she basically has a demon steel pedal that also launches if you try do get up, her wall game is insane, full crouch mix ups with a i15 launching mid that is only-12 on block.
Haven't even mentioned her ch game.
Alot of people said the same about fak on release that he is a solid mid teir. I could be wrong but at this stage I think she is very good.

 

[DeftMonk]

She has good tools to stop you side stepping in db2(drag d2) and her 22 string. Her b1 is active for 2 frames which will shut down side step even if she is -3 and bigs can't step it. Her pressure is hella good. You can't ws punish her non jailing mid highs because she has fuck all wiff recovery. Her mix up game is nasty, her oki is nasty she basically has a demon steel pedal that also launches if you try do get up, her wall game is insane, full crouch mix ups with a i15 launching mid that is only-12 on block.
Haven't even mentioned her ch game.
Alot of people said the same about fak on release that he is a solid mid teir. I could be wrong but at this stage I think she is very good.

I don't think she is anywhere near as strong as release Leroy. Just my opinion but that fool was stupid.

 

[NaCl man]

I don't think she is anywhere near as strong as release Leroy. Just my opinion but that fool was stupid.

Just memeing but she is nasty. But lts what I've come to expect from dlc. Over tuned on release.

 

[Eddy Wang]

@supahotbean I think @Eddy Wang is talking about the f4 into electric at the wall. F4 is +4 so it is easier for kaz to frame trap off it with electric because he can skip an input and have it come out at 13 frames if done perfectly. But he can also have it come out at 14 frames and skip the input but executed 1 frame slower. Not easy anyway but electric punishment / frame traps with the other mishimas there is no leniency. At the same time its the only standing normal hit launcher kaz has under 20 frames.

Yeah, she is definitely scary.
But her extensions are very punishable if blocked, and when safe are mostly duckable.
So he has to rely on poke and dodge as Jin, and I think compared to Jin she is terrible at it. for a few reasons
she doesn't have an equivalent to Jin's 214 which is very good.
her df1 has really short reach.
And what is really saving Lidia is the fact that her hop kick has an interesting consistency and her damage output is definitely high, specially with that Akira Yuki's just frame that was given to her.

But in a long run, I think she will be slightly weaker than Kunimitsu, while Kuni is theoretically weak against movement, she has a good amount of tricks and setups that prevents ppl to circle around her weakness.
Lidia might have db2 for homing, but even that is -14, so she takes a quite a lot more risks trying to prevent ppl to move around compared to Kuni who will constantly remind you she has a setup that you never took in consideration for anything you did on screen, not counting 22. and also the fact that she can fight in any direction now, so bt moves with CH launchers throws and lows that are plus on hit.

 

[DeftMonk]

Yeah, she is definitely scary.
But her extensions are very punishable if blocked, and when safe are mostly duckable.
So he has to rely on poke and dodge as Jin, and I think compared to Jin she is terrible at it. for a few reasons
she doesn't have an equivalent to Jin's 214 which is very good.
her df1 has really short reach.
And what is really saving Lidia is the fact that her hop kick has an interesting consistency and her damage output is definitely high, specially with that Akira Yuki's just frame that was given to her.

But in a long run, I think she will be slightly weaker than Kunimitsu, while Kuni is theoretically weak against movement, she has a good amount of tricks and setups that prevents ppl to circle around her weakness.
Lidia might have db2 for homing, but even that is -14, so she takes a quite a lot more risks trying to prevent ppl to move around compared to Kuni who will constantly remind you she has a setup that you never took in consideration for anything you did on screen, not counting 22. and also the fact that she can fight in any direction now, so bt moves with CH launchers throws and lows that are plus on hit.

Ya she has to take risks. Damage is good but nothing like release leroy d1+2 nonsense going on as far as her gameplan is concerned imo. I think they did a great job with her design.

 

[M2Dave]

Even if Lidia is a top tier character, she is definitely no pre-patch Fahkumram and Leroy, who had no weaknesses. Those two characters were comically overpowered on release day, particularly Leroy. He must have received 40 nerfs by now yet arguably remains top 10. LOL.

From what I have played and observed thus far, poking with Lidia's f,f+2 seems effective. f,f+2 is +15 on hit, -2 on block with push back, and difficult to side step at range two and three. If opponents attempt to retaliate with magic 4s or d/f+2s, she can whiff punish with 3,2 for massive damage, and I believe that she has a female side step like Katarina and Kazumi making side step 3,2 a dangerous whiff punishing tool. She can mix f,f+2 with d/b+2, whose utility may depend on the match up because of the disadvantage on block, or d/b+3, which is one of the most damaging sweeps in the game at 37 points of damage (40 points in rage). Certain characters will be able to block and punish her low attacks for significant damage, though. I also do not think that she has a top tier counter hit game. Nonetheless, I agree that she could be very good.

 

[DeftMonk]

someone should make a tier list like this for mk11. I tried to find the blasted salami video but it is gone now.