Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

[NaCl man]

It's not a true combo. It only shows as a combo in practice mode and can be blocked.

true but it beats any wake up and at worst they block the electric which still leaves you at +5. Still not too bad even if its not guaranteed. Do you know of something that would beat it outright?

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

true but it beats any wake up and at worst they block the electric which still leaves you at +5. Still not too bad even if its not guaranteed. Do you know of something that would beat it outright?

Best option is to take the Hellsweep/fF3 mix-up because when properly executed, both options are legit frame traps that can't be dick jabbed or hop kicked due to the massive +23 guard break advantage.

Edit: You can also dash in for db4 and it can't be mashed out of, come to think of it, this move isn't so bad, it just sucks that you gotta be really on point with spacing it properly because Devil Jin, Bob, Lars, Feng and some other characters will otherwise punish you every time for having it blocked any closer than max range due to -13.

2nd edit: I used this move a lot in TTT2 and you kinda need to mist step/crouchdash into sidestep and wank around doing both back and forth depending on your opponents movement if you want to make sure you are spacing it properly as well as re-aligning with the opponent by sidestepping into it due to the linearity of the move. Dashing forward and doing bf3 has a high chance to get magic 4'd or sidestepped and it covers massive range so and forward movement telegraphs the attack so I've found that the best way to use it is to move forward a bit from range 3 to 2, then sidestep, if your opponent starts backdashing you can just sidestep/mist step until he dashes in again within range and then you pull the trigger on it and there is a good chance you'll catch the CH.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

@NaCl man @Smoke_Of_Finland @Eddy Wang All i know is THIS! Uncle JBeezY will be online in 2 hours and am down for some games on the PS4! And i have improved my gameplay

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I'mma head off to bed soon. Mic_Atl will be doing another Tekken Tech episode in a few hours, I highly suggest watching if possible.

Edit: Oh wait the tech episode isn't until tomorrow.

 

[Israel]

Best option is to take the Hellsweep/fF3 mix-up because when properly executed, both options are legit frame traps that can't be dick jabbed or hop kicked due to the massive +23 guard break advantage.

Edit: You can also dash in for db4 and it can't be mashed out of, come to think of it, this move isn't so bad, it just sucks that you gotta be really on point with spacing it properly because Devil Jin, Bob, Lars, Feng and some other characters will otherwise punish you every time for having it blocked any closer than max range due to -13.

2nd edit: I used this move a lot in TTT2 and you kinda need to mist step/crouchdash into sidestep and wank around doing both back and forth depending on your opponents movement if you want to make sure you are spacing it properly as well as re-aligning with the opponent by sidestepping into it due to the linearity of the move. Dashing forward and doing bf3 has a high chance to get magic 4'd or sidestepped and it covers massive range so and forward movement telegraphs the attack so I've found that the best way to use it is to move forward a bit from range 3 to 2, then sidestep, if your opponent starts backdashing you can just sidestep/mist step until he dashes in again within range and then you pull the trigger on it and there is a good chance you'll catch the CH.

They should have kept f2 and f1+2 as they were in TTT2. F1+2 having the -13 extension actually made that move situationally useful, now f1+2 is just a "throw out this move if you want to die" in terms of useability. Armor move could have just been something like Devil Jin's d1. Also I would rather have his b4,1 string from TTT2 back, put it on ub4,1 or something, like they gave Paul that new b2,1 string and moved his old b2 to ub2. Db2 got changed to being -6 on block instead of zero which makes no sense what so ever. F3 losing the CH knockdown is a nerf to a move that wasn't great to begin with. SS3 being safe this time around is nice but still nothing to cheer about.

Playing Kazuya just makes me salty in this game and I see no real reason to pick him over Devil Jin.

Edit: df1,4 launching straight into tailspin on standing hit would have been fine as well.

I agree with everything you said man. He just doesnt feel complete. i think they took away the extending punch to f1+2, just to add the zoom in feature to it landing? Devil jin can do what he does but better. And them giving you the option to pewgf off his b1+2 ch doesnt mean jack sh*% to the character at all. I just smh everytime i look at him in comparison to Devil Jin.

I'd rather have that knockdown from ch f3 in tt2 than this version. Tbh, the only way to really maximize that follow up is to do hellsweep or ff3 (or electric to keep in check). Same with his db4 on ch...it leaves them standing. They should have considered giving him Kazumi's properties on ch db4, it leaves them in a front side knockdown. Its not like Kaz can keep you under pressure with strings or anything.. Kazumi on the other hand could take advantage of those plus frames.

Also with his f3, they should have considered really making him like +14, aka he CAN get a guaranteed electric off of it. What this would do is, put the kaz player at risk of being punished for not being on point. Its the same with brian, when he lands his b4.. he can get a guarenteed ff2, but if hes too late, and the opponent is ready to punish, they would be ducking and while rising lauch his wiff. (thats why sometimes the brian player can just do ff3 to catch them trying to duck.)

"Eh, lets just buff devil mode and that will cover everything." - Namco
Pssh...its not like i can transform anytime i want or half life, so F that mode man.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

DJin makes a lot of characters redundant. He needs toned down a little. He's not even hard to play like the other mishimas. You can get away with poverty electrics on him well into the middle ranks. Learn to wavedash and he's good to go.

 

[NaCl man]

I do agree i ask my self every time i play why do i bother still playing kaz. Diablo jim is everything a mishima pmayer needs

 

[honeybooboo]

I do agree i ask my self every time i play why do i bother still playing kaz. Diablo jim is everything a mishima pmayer needs

Feelsbadman

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I do agree i ask my self every time i play why do i bother still playing kaz. Diablo jim is everything a mishima pmayer needs

He's everything just about any character needs lol. Crazy ass damage, great moveset that's large enough to be all-encompassing but small enough to be easy to keep track of and use efficiently. Play him any which way you want and at just about any range. Etc. Electrics aren't terribly hard either, I don't play mishimas or practice them outside just messing around and getting bored a few times a week an spending 10m a session with them and Im around 70% average with right side nearly perfect and left side not so much.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

I kinda wanna play Devil Jin because his customization outfits are bad ass! And there ain't nothing more satisfying than whooping somebody's ass with style

 

[RM AtK!]

DJin makes a lot of characters redundant. He needs toned down a little. He's not even hard to play like the other mishimas. You can get away with poverty electrics on him well into the middle ranks. Learn to wavedash and he's good to go.

i disagree with this lmao... the only dumb move he has is b4 near the wall. You still have to play him fundamentally. and no half ass electrics wont win you matches seeing as crouching beats both electric and hellsweep. Also he's not that strong in low rank gameplay anyway. That's the area where gimmicks win due to matchup knowledge, and he has no real gimmicks compared to a lot of the cast.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

i disagree with this lmao... the only dumb move he has is b4 near the wall. You still have to play him fundamentally. and no half ass electrics wont win you matches seeing as crouching beats both electric and hellsweep. Also he's not that strong in low rank gameplay anyway. That's the area where gimmicks win due to matchup knowledge, and he has no real gimmicks compared to a lot of the cast.

Fair enough. I dont mean he gimmicks wins.. A new player jumping to him from Eddy or Chloe or something and thinking they are going to just mash out wins with as little thought is gonna be SUPER disappointed for sure.. My reference was poorly worded. What I meant, largely, was that he's an enormously strong character, top three EASILY, lacks specific win conditions and his tight, compact kit means he's consistent and focused to play.. and the entry level execution required (speaking just of execution) isnt nearly as steep until the much later ranks.

My issue is just that, in competent hands, he's a jack of all trades, and master of them all too. He works from any range and packs a huge punch. Command grabs. His U3+4 is POWERFUL. I know its not seen in the tippy top ranks, but that doesnt mean its not silly strong. It totally changes how he's approached in some situations. That said, I'm probably dropping Shaheen for DJin, because the way I'm trying to/want to play Shaheen is better served by DJin... also electrics are fun.. So I'm not trying to shit on the character. Dragunov needs a smack before DJin, but still..

He just does everything so well.

By half-assed electrics though, I mean failing the just-frame and getting the shit version. His pressure isnt built off the backs of those electrics and his kit means he's lethal from any range.. So assuming you are using them when you should be using an electric, he can get away with fucking them up more WAY more than Hei and Kaz can. I just meant that his execution isnt as demanding in the lower/middle ranks as some other characters.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

now with MH world being out I guess it's time again to take another " short break " from T7

started playing it 2 hours ago, first MH game for me
and enjoying it so far,
I guess Cammy will like this game too, dem cats 2 cute lol

 

[Eddy Wang]

Guys i think i just found a pattern inside tekken like i do find in 2D games, i wasn't aware of this until a few days ago and it seems that this has been going for a while.
If you didn't know about this you may feel like a glass shattering after watching this video.

It seems namco also didn't fixed this in previous games, already looking into new ways to find some tech for my character based on this shit which makes the game less random, and limits a good bunch of options to just a few outcomes like in 2D games.

 

[RM AtK!]

Fair enough. I dont mean he gimmicks wins.. A new player jumping to him from Eddy or Chloe or something and thinking they are going to just mash out wins with as little thought is gonna be SUPER disappointed for sure.. My reference was poorly worded. What I meant, largely, was that he's an enormously strong character, top three EASILY, lacks specific win conditions and his tight, compact kit means he's consistent and focused to play.. and the entry level execution required (speaking just of execution) isnt nearly as steep until the much later ranks.

My issue is just that, in competent hands, he's a jack of all trades, and master of them all too. He works from any range and packs a huge punch. Command grabs. His U3+4 is POWERFUL. I know its not seen in the tippy top ranks, but that doesnt mean its not silly strong. It totally changes how he's approached in some situations. That said, I'm probably dropping Shaheen for DJin, because the way I'm trying to/want to play Shaheen is better served by DJin... also electrics are fun.. So I'm not trying to shit on the character. Dragunov needs a smack before DJin, but still..

He just does everything so well.

By half-assed electrics though, I mean failing the just-frame and getting the shit version. His pressure isnt built off the backs of those electrics and his kit means he's lethal from any range.. So assuming you are using them when you should be using an electric, he can get away with fucking them up more WAY more than Hei and Kaz can. I just meant that his execution isnt as demanding in the lower/middle ranks as some other characters.

lol, i respect your opinion, but your crazy to think he doesnt take execution.. he is a jack of all trades, but he isn't a master of any of them. he doesn have #1 zoning, defense, homing, frame data, etc.. he's solid and well rounded. I feel like you're exaggerating quite a bit. Pick him up and see how you do with himi then, he's fun to play. the electrics statement is complete bs though. if you get the shitty electric on block you are gettin punished because its not safe. and electrics are all about movement and evasiveness which kazuya is the best at as far as electrics are concerned. Not to mention he has like 3 diff ways of inputing electrics (being way more leniant and easier to not fuck up). You won't beat compitent people on DJ unless your movement is really solid, which imo is the hardest thing in tekken and the most high lvl as well.

His dmg is pretty much only really good if he hits an electric, and his optimal ender with electric with the dmg isn't easy at all. go try to do his bnb with ff31 dash cancel electric ender 10/10 times. I guarantee you cant. Also hell sweep you only get good damage off of it if you pick it up with electric which yet again is extremely hard and not a low lvl skillset.

 

[RM AtK!]

Guys i think i just found a pattern inside tekken like i do find in 2D games, i wasn't aware of this until a few days ago and it seems that this has been going for a while.
If you didn't know about this you may feel like a glass shattering after watching this video.

It seems namco also didn't fixed this in previous games, already looking into new ways to find some tech for my character based on this shit which makes the game less random, and limits a good bunch of options to just a few outcomes like in 2D games.

btw that's really old info, lots of ppl know about this. it's also in previous tekken games as well iirc

 

[Eddy Wang]

btw that's really old info, lots of ppl know about this. it's also in previous tekken games as well iirc

then we're fucked, time to change the meta accordingly then.


Also the Jack of all trades rules is applied to regular Jin afaik and not DVJ.


His tools are not average not in the slightest, on top of being the most well rounded mishima, has a move that tracks both sides, a low and high crushing normal, a very fast unseeable comboable low, can hit people in the ground, as a move that ensures a guaranteed grounded move post hit and starts a really strong guessing game.
Discussing at the wall, a complete throw game. The most complete character in the game.

 

[RM AtK!]

then we're fucked, time to change the meta accordingly then.


Also the Jack of all trades rules is applied to regular Jin afaik and not DVJ.


His tools are not average not in the slightest, on top of being the most well rounded mishima, has a move that tracks both sides, a low and high crushing normal, a very fast unseeable comboable low, can hit people in the ground, as a move that ensures a guaranteed grounded move post hit and starts a really strong guessing game.
Discussing at the wall, a complete throw game. The most complete character in the game.

Literally every char in the game has almost everything you said aside from hellsweep. his B4 everyone has as well. and you know UF4 gets low profiled right? I'm failing to see any of what you said others are lacking lol. and as far as tracking goes.. BF2 is for right stepping for the most part, and ws2 is toward the left but few chars can actually walk it quite easily (asuka is one that i know 100% can) If anyone has rediculous tracking its dragonuv, alisa, Lee, steve, ling etc.. tons of chars.

Noone is in their own tier in this game. Not even close

Also about the crouch cancel thing, nobody is fucked because it's been known forever!! This is the first game it actually matters at all, due to ONLINE only because you can pick sides. So you don't exactly know what side the other person is on.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Literally every char in the game has almost everything you said aside from hellsweep. his B4 everyone has as well. and you know UF4 gets low profiled right? I'm failing to see any of what you said others are lacking lol. and as far as tracking goes.. BF2 is for right stepping for the most part, and ws2 is toward the left but few chars can actually walk it quite easily (asuka is one that i know 100% can) If anyone has rediculous tracking its dragonuv, alisa, Lee, steve, ling etc.. tons of chars.

Noone is in their own tier in this game. Not even close

Also about the crouch cancel thing, nobody is fucked because it's been known forever!! This is the first game it actually matters at all, due to ONLINE only because you can pick sides. So you don't exactly know what side the other person is on.

Bullshit, not every character in this game has an EWGF, an hop kick that crushes highs and mids at the same time. As far as uf4 is low crushable it has to be a character with a very specific move in most case broken which currently are labaled as "mechanic" of said character, no one in his right mid will intentionally crush one of the best mids in the game.
Not every character has a move that hits grounded guaranteed the same way B4 does, i'm pretty sure Jin doesn't have it.

The thing that makes DVJ good its not having the most powerful tools in the game, but he is the character with the strongest package in the entire game, his tools in conjunction are extremely strong, very limiting and people still have to deal with his fifty fifty and Bf2 does indeed track both sides, easiest way to die is trying to step that move. Compared to the rest of the character package DVJ is definitely up there, Not saying Dragunov Steve, Paul are not there, as far as i care, all those character could definitely use some nerfs it would give a much better game.
Ling its not strong because of her tracking but because she crushes lots of mids so the mentality of playing against ling in general is very challenging because she isn't the usual type you would just go head on and do what you usually do against the majority of the cast, she doesn't work in conventional ways.

You guys might have been known forever, you can't blame me, i never played tekken as competitive as i do T7, learned a lot of thing and i'm still learning as i keep digging all by myself, this open new opportunities for me, for the character i play and helps me put the game on a different perspective, kudos to you if its nothing to worry about, as for Online does not matter at all, its debatable, The tournaments that matter aside from mastercup are all offline so this is still huge in big stages because you can use it knowing which side your opponent is head one, and they might even try to mask it with the mirroring system it still doesn't solve the issue at all as there is still ways to know which side your opponent is playing.
Just by watching how Knee performs some attacks patterns after knowing this i can definitely confirm he was not only checking for opening but he was checking for sides as well

The donwplay is real with this one.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

lol, i respect your opinion, but your crazy to think he doesnt take execution.. he is a jack of all trades, but he isn't a master of any of them. he doesn have #1 zoning, defense, homing, frame data, etc.. he's solid and well rounded. I feel like you're exaggerating quite a bit. Pick him up and see how you do with himi then, he's fun to play. the electrics statement is complete bs though. if you get the shitty electric on block you are gettin punished because its not safe. and electrics are all about movement and evasiveness which kazuya is the best at as far as electrics are concerned. Not to mention he has like 3 diff ways of inputing electrics (being way more leniant and easier to not fuck up). You won't beat compitent people on DJ unless your movement is really solid, which imo is the hardest thing in tekken and the most high lvl as well.

His dmg is pretty much only really good if he hits an electric, and his optimal ender with electric with the dmg isn't easy at all. go try to do his bnb with ff31 dash cancel electric ender 10/10 times. I guarantee you cant. Also hell sweep you only get good damage off of it if you pick it up with electric which yet again is extremely hard and not a low lvl skillset.

Agree to disagree I guess. I feel like DJin is a character that operates, like Drag as an example, on a plane slightly higher than most of the rest of the cast. I don't mean he's like 7/3ing the cast, or even 6/4ing, I don't think numbers like that work in this game at all really, but he *is* I'm a little too strong.

I also don't mean his execution is braindead easy, it's just not on par with Kaz and Jin and so on. Yes, sure, he HAZ super difficult stuff, but most of it's not integral to his play... Qudons himself does some basic ass combos on the regular. I can net fully respectable damage off a single electric juggle. Poverty electrics can be safe at -9 , and even at -10, in the ranks where you're gonna be getting poverty electrics to begin with, you don't get punished that often, if at all. I wasn't meaning for the whole poverty electric to even be an argument, I just meant he can get reasonable damage off a single electric without difficult juggles - 68 is good damage - and if you're using them smartly he can get away with fucking them up. I only mentioned that because I was eluding to his lower execution barrier of entry.


And you mentioned trying DJin myself.. that's why I think he's a little much. I have, and do, play him. Im probably replacing Shaheen with him to be honest..

But you feel differently and have valid reasons for it, and I respect that. Im a newer player anyway, and always looking to learn.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Crouch cancelling is basic info, but one thing to note about forced crouch states is that if you are looking to low parry a low around 20 frames of start-up such as Jin/Kazuya db4 or Bryan qcb3 after being forced into crouch and you are at a disadvantage, you won't low parry if you just hold df. The low hits you after the low parry window has passed. Obviously these situations are not legitimate frame traps and can be hop kicked or even while standing launched, but assuming you don't want to take that risk (opponent may move and bait your attacks out and whiff punish) and if you'd rather look for the parry and risk eating a mid you can tap ub and then time your df press. These situations can also occur on block, such as when you block Lee's f3+4 and he follows that up with fc df4.

Dashing also cancels crouch and dash electric is the optimal punish for staggering lows as Heihachi. I believe this is a mandatory skillset to learn for Heihachi, also recommended for Devil Jin. As Kazuya and Jin you don't necessarily need to take the risk of fucking up the punish and you can just do ws2. I haven't tested it in this game but I believe Kazuya's ws2 still whiffs when mashed out of blockstun as fast as possible when you block Nina's "wipe the floor" move for example.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Crouch cancelling is basic info, but one thing to note about forced crouch states is that if you are looking to low parry a low around 20 frames of start-up such as Jin/Kazuya db4 or Bryan qcb3 after being forced into crouch and you are at a disadvantage, you won't low parry if you just hold df. The low hits you after the low parry window has passed. Obviously these situations are not legitimate frame traps and can be hop kicked or even while standing launched, but assuming you don't want to take that risk (opponent may move and bait your attacks out and whiff punish) and if you'd rather look for the parry and risk eating a mid you can tap ub and then time your df press. These situations can also occur on block, such as when you block Lee's f3+4 and he follows that up with fc df4.

Dashing also cancels crouch and dash electric is the optimal punish for staggering lows as Heihachi. I believe this is a mandatory skillset to learn for Heihachi, also recommended for Devil Jin. As Kazuya and Jin you don't necessarily need to take the risk of fucking up the punish and you can just do ws2. I haven't tested it in this game but I believe Kazuya's ws2 still whiffs when mashed out of blockstun as fast as possible when you block Nina's "wipe the floor" move for example.

Very True Smoke, and yes Kazuya's WS2 still whiffs on certain normals, While Jin ws2 is good in many situations where Hei DJin and kazuya have to crouch canceling, there is some attacks where his ws2 has a 90% chance of whiffing, those moves can however be accurately punished if you crouch cancel into d3+4 though.

 

[RM AtK!]

then we're fucked, time to change the meta accordingly then.


Also the Jack of all trades rules is applied to regular Jin afaik and not DVJ.


His tools are not average not in the slightest, on top of being the most well rounded mishima, has a move that tracks both sides, a low and high crushing normal, a very fast unseeable comboable low, can hit people in the ground, as a move that ensures a guaranteed grounded move post hit and starts a really strong guessing game.
Discussing at the wall, a complete throw game. The most complete character in the game.

Agree to disagree I guess. I feel like DJin is a character that operates, like Drag as an example, on a plane slightly higher than most of the rest of the cast. I don't mean he's like 7/3ing the cast, or even 6/4ing, I don't think numbers like that work in this game at all really, but he *is* I'm a little too strong.

I also don't mean his execution is braindead easy, it's just not on par with Kaz and Jin and so on. Yes, sure, he HAZ super difficult stuff, but most of it's not integral to his play... Qudons himself does some basic ass combos on the regular. I can net fully respectable damage off a single electric juggle. Poverty electrics can be safe at -9 , and even at -10, in the ranks where you're gonna be getting poverty electrics to begin with, you don't get punished that often, if at all. I wasn't meaning for the whole poverty electric to even be an argument, I just meant he can get reasonable damage off a single electric without difficult juggles - 68 is good damage - and if you're using them smartly he can get away with fucking them up. I only mentioned that because I was eluding to his lower execution barrier of entry.


And you mentioned trying DJin myself.. that's why I think he's a little much. I have, and do, play him. Im probably replacing Shaheen with him to be honest..

But you feel differently and have valid reasons for it, and I respect that. Im a newer player anyway, and always looking to learn.

i'm not questioning you being a new player or anything like that. Not trying to be-little you or w/e.. I just don't think you understand that some of the statements aren't true. at the lower lvls you're talkin about Jin is the easiest, and then it would be heihachi. Jin doesn't need to use a single electric in lower lvl game play. He's the one with Fast great poking, Some of the best counter hitting and hard to read, ambiguous neutral with his buttons and stances.. Jin's damage is on the lower end, but thats only for electrics, which again he doesn't need whatsoever. I have a buddy that can't electric at all and he's orange rank Jin.

It all just depends on what you want in the character.. They are all good at something, but kazuya and DJ are required to wavedash well and hit electrics consistently. Heihachi is inbetween Jin and Kazuya for needing electrics. Heihachi and Kazuya / Jin all get good damage from strings / pokes and counters. They are all great characters, and what you say about Jin being really hard to use ( he is at the very highest level of play ) , but all of them are.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Put in that way i can see your perspective much better and its actually very true, indeed i agree.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

i'm not questioning you being a new player or anything like that. Not trying to be-little you or w/e.. I just don't think you understand that some of the statements aren't true. at the lower lvls you're talkin about Jin is the easiest, and then it would be heihachi. Jin doesn't need to use a single electric in lower lvl game play. He's the one with Fast great poking, Some of the best counter hitting and hard to read, ambiguous neutral with his buttons and stances.. Jin's damage is on the lower end, but thats only for electrics, which again he doesn't need whatsoever. I have a buddy that can't electric at all and he's orange rank Jin.

It all just depends on what you want in the character.. They are all good at something, but kazuya and DJ are required to wavedash well and hit electrics consistently. Heihachi is inbetween Jin and Kazuya for needing electrics. Heihachi and Kazuya / Jin all get good damage from strings / pokes and counters. They are all great characters, and what you say about Jin being really hard to use ( he is at the very highest level of play ) , but all of them are.

Nah, I don't think you're belittling me or anything at all man. We're just having s discussion.