General/Other - Tanya Tanya SHOULD be normalized.

[Blonde_Huntress]

You know a lot of this bs would be avoided with better design and actual testing of dlc rather than using majors as an open beta. Elephant.

Maybe dlc should be banned for current majors since we can't have the above but we all know when it comes to rulesets it gets discussed on tym then "bruh adapt" and we forget 1 week later. So bring on that tanya super nerf, we all know it's coming. It's as unavoidable as death.

I do agree.

Part of me genuinely feels bad, though, for those that were genuinely attracted to Tanya for reasons other than "Oh we can win with her!"

I know she already had an existing fan base.

I hope NRS is practical when they release their next patch. It's so disheartening when your character gets nerfed beyond recognition.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Wow... the goro in me feels so salty. Punch walking against a better punch walker

They could nerf every move in her toolset and she would still beat Goro lol. Better pick up a secondary brotha.

 

[Shark Tank]

I do agree.

Part of me genuinely feels bad, though, for those that were genuinely attracted to Tanya for reasons other than "Oh we can win with her!"

I know she already had an existing fan base.

I hope NRS is practical when they release their next patch. It's so disheartening when your character gets nerfed beyond recognition.

Game image nerfs do suck. I fought for the fisticuff players, and my hollow heart goes out to tanya player hoping she doesn't get riggity riggity wrecked. But being at the mercy of NRS when their game gets booed(mainly do to their own failures)because of your character is a scary thing. I shall pray to the fundamental gods for a merciful nerf.

 

[Predannok]

Someone hasn't been practising their option selects if they think unsafe specials mean anything.

This everything wrong with Option selects why are you people promoting this shit?

 

[RM_NINfan101]

You know a lot of this bs would be avoided with better design and actual testing of dlc rather than using majors as an open beta. Elephant.

Maybe dlc should be banned for current majors since we can't have the above but we all know when it comes to rulesets it gets discussed on tym then "bruh adapt" and we forget 1 week later. So bring on that tanya super nerf, we all know it's coming. It's as unavoidable as death.

I just gotta comment on this because I ultimately agree. I just read the following tweet from Street Fighter Player KelvinJeon:

"Kelvin Jeon @KelvinsHouse
.@Kapwan *"I've really enjoyed watching that game patched over and over the past few months."

The reputation the game has received, with the way it's patches have come and how the DLC cycle makes it impossible to take the "Wait And See" approach is absolute donkey balls. Before anyone says "Well that shouldn't matter, we still got our scene!" No, you don't want people saying that about your game. Now while ultimately bug fixes like whiffing hitboxes and whatnot needed to be patched, there has been just about as much patches and slews of updates like IGAU. It was slow at first but now NRS (I would assume WBGames is the reason behind it.) kinda is seeing the error of their ways again but I don't think they actually get it. I was hype for Tanya, still am. The issue I just have overall is the timing of their DLC and how they do it. They should test their DLC like they do the other characters, and buff those damn AAs already. Stop making the game look so... Silly because of your inability to do basic things like make mids hit crouching, blocking opponents. Why was that an issue for the majority of the cast?

This everything wrong with Option selects why are you people promoting this shit?

OSes are in every game. They are staying in MKX. Get used to it. There are no more excuses. I might even make a topic later on how this could benefit the game and make it look more technical than it does. Even Dizzy, master of B2 OS for TG Raiden, did not make it out of pools at CEO. This should tell you, OSes are not the be all end all, and are only one tenth of the game at best.

 

[haketh]

This everything wrong with Option selects why are you people promoting this shit?

If you're not using the OSes at this point you're not trying to be competitive.

 

[GAV]

Dave gets a lot of hate here, but players are crazy if they just dismiss his opinions. He definitely has a dynamic perspective and his rationale is always very thorough.

I didn't think she needed nerfing, but seeing him post that she did definitely gave me pause and got me looking deeper into it.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I actually think Dave, for the most part has been kinda reasonable with what he has talked about for this game. I can't speak for the IGAU threads of the past, but he does bring up valid points and helped us realize the meta more than we did, or at least try to seek out if there was indeed more to it than coinflips, which we also did.

The footsies discussion was one that, like it or not, was one that needed to be had.

 

[OneEyeTwoHead]

Welcome!

And I totally agree. @Awkward Sloth @Vak Phoenix @Arkayne and myself have been waiting for Tanya for years!

Sonic fox, MIT, REO and CDJr will all move on to Predator, Tremor, and or the old top tiers once she gets nerfed.

It sucks for those of us who actually love her.

If you enjoy her...keep fucking playing her after she gets normalized.

What's the big deal? She's still going to be strong after any normalizations and if you "love" her as much as you say, you'll keep playing her.

I'm tired of people claiming character loyalty ONLY if that character is an S+ character.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

If you enjoy her...keep fucking playing her after she gets normalized.

What's the big deal? She's still going to be strong after any normalizations and if you "love" her as much as you say, you'll keep playing her.

I'm tired of people claiming character loyalty ONLY if that character is an S+ character.

I'll tell you something as to why they're concerned.

They really don't want their character to end up like Injustice Scorpion. The only reasonable adjustment is the teleport losing any armor it still has at random points and it's invincibility which would not hurt her game at all really.

And I'm kinda concerned too, to be honest. The timing of this all couldn't of actually been worse before EVO. It's not a matter of character loyalty. Most people who picked up Tanya picked her up because they gave her the best chance to win so they believed and at the time of CEO, had it not been for DJT? Your winner would of been a Tanya.

 

[RunwayMafia]

If you enjoy her...keep fucking playing her after she gets normalized.

What's the big deal? She's still going to be strong after any normalizations and if you "love" her as much as you say, you'll keep playing her.

I'm tired of people claiming character loyalty ONLY if that character is an S+ character.

Take a seat and calm the fuck down.

Ofcourse we (at least I know I will) will continue to main her, but she doesnt need to be nerfed into oblivion because she has superb mobility.

 

[Predannok]

OSes are in every game. They are staying in MKX. Get used to it. There are no more excuses. I might even make a topic later on how this could benefit the game and make it look more technical than it does. Even Dizzy, master of B2 OS for TG Raiden, did not make it out of pools at CEO. This should tell you, OSes are not the be all end all, and are only one tenth of the game at best.

make a thread explaining how ignoring the rsik/reward system is benefiting for the game since in every char forum everyone is posting OS techs and im the minority here.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

 

[OneEyeTwoHead]

Take a seat and calm the fuck down.

Ofcourse we (at least I know I will) will continue to main her, but she doesnt need to be nerfed into oblivion because she has superb mobility.

You calm down.

You've been replying to people making reasonable claims (invincibility being removed, and a little less stamina requirement on teleport) like they are the end of the world for your character you've waited sooo long for. Oh woe is me.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

make a thread explaining how ignoring the rsik/reward system is benefiting for the game since in every char forum everyone is posting OS techs and im the minority here.

It really doesn't remove the element of risk/reward. Not every character has B2 OS like Raiden does. Most is only stuff that works on hit or block and nothing to that magnitude, even then... I don't understand how you didn't see OSes in games before like MK9 which had them on Jump ins.

Even then, still you have to get used to it by now. I'm sorry. That's just how it is. Otherwise? you have no one to really blame because OSes have been around since SF2 and every game has them and ways to exploit them. The best players just adapt and move on to their own tech and make their own and we go from there, but don't let that fool you into thinking that OSes are the be all end all in this game because they absolutely are not. They aren't in any game, and are only truly seen at top level play to the max ability.

OSes are mandatory to learn if you are looking to take your game to the next level. Instead of shitting on it, and I can understand why you would, you gotta embrace it.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is m2dave and I am a Tanya player. People ask me regularly "Dave, how good is Tanya?" and there is not an ounce of a Smoke or a Martian Manhunter player in my body to look them straight in the eyes and say "mid tier".

shut up dave my hair is fabulous and smoke is only about #8

 

[RunwayMafia]

You calm down.

You've been replying to people making reasonable claims (invincibility being removed, and a little less stamina requirement on teleport) like they are the end of the world for your character you've waited sooo long for. Oh woe is me.

I'm calm. You're the one that came clapping at me.

And yes, removing invcibility frames (which is the real issue) is totally fine. Making it take a hit of stamina is absurd (ohhhh boo hooo, I have to actually play smart and chase her down....gtfo).

 

[juicepouch]

Indeed, buffing goro is the only true solution

 

[SirVigorous]

Overall I don't think Tanya is OP. she's clearly beatable. However, the argument could be made that she is bad or terrible game design. You have to play very different against Tanya than you do against every other character. Tanya is like a minigame within the game.

 

[Skkra]

Two thoughts that occurred to me at work this evening.

1. While I'm all for interesting and unique characters, Tanya in her current form feels like a Marvel character dropped into MKX. In a game where movement is so important, and your movement options (backdash, run) were seen to be so powerful that they were purposefully limited with a stamina system, having a character who can move with the kind of freedom that Tanya does feels out of place. I have no idea what the fix to her is, but teleports costing maybe 1/4 stamina would still allow her burst movement and the ability to complete combos.

2. Remember that she was only just released. The arguments for her power/learning to deal with her go both ways, but I think in the end, power trumps "learning to deal." What I mean here:

I think the fact that she is incredibly strong due to being a "meta breaker" right now is not going to lessen. Yes, people will learn to deal with her teleport, but due to how it currently functions and how fast the game plays, the risk/reward feels strongly in her favor. Sitting there and looking to nj2 it is all well and good, but when the game plays at breakneck speed and you're also having to watch for 5 other options, your attention resource gets spread thin.

The main thing that this makes me think of is Kabal, and what the gents would discuss on the old Kombat Tomb Podcast. Sure, people will learn to deal with Tanya. But Tanya players are also going to continue to level up. When Kabal first seemed brokenly strong, it was always "well, it's just REO." But one by one, more and more Kabal mains started showing up. Near the end, almost every top player had a pocket Kabal.


I'd rather not see a case like that allowed to develop again. And mostly, based on what I said earlier today, this game HAS to look good at Evo for the scene to grow. So many eyes will be on it. Good character and playstyle variety makes for hype matches, and is the best possible advertisement for turning casuals into event attendees.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Overall I don't think Tanya is OP. she's clearly beatable. However, the argument could be made that she is bad or terrible game design. You have to play very different against Tanya than you do against every other character. Tanya is like a minigame within the game.

Can we please stop with this view?

Like diversity amongst the roster is what you should aim for, for any fighting game. So Tanya doesn't necessarily play by the "rules". So what? You want every character to be so rushdown focused without having to think?

Should Sub just not be in the game because of his ability to make you think on how to approach him with clone?

Should Shinnok be removed because he plays way differently than most members of the cast, mainly with a footsie oriented game that evolves into Rushdown or zoning?

I mean, define the rules of the game to me? Because Tanya fits in those rules regardless. She's here to stay, and as far as I'm concerned, and I said this earlier in the thread. She's fucking fun in a game full of mindless rushdown that seems to be most of your top 8.

I'd rather have her in than not have her at all, let me tell you.

 

[SirVigorous]

Can we please stop with this view?

Like diversity amongst the roster is what you should aim for, for any fighting game. So Tanya doesn't necessarily play by the "rules". So what? You want every character to be so rushdown focused without having to think?

Should Sub just not be in the game because of his ability to make you think on how to approach him with clone?

Should Shinnok be removed because he plays way differently than most members of the cast, mainly with a footsie oriented game that evolves into Rushdown or zoning?

I mean, define the rules of the game to me? Because Tanya fits in those rules regardless. She's here to stay, and as far as I'm concerned, and I said this earlier in the thread. She's fucking fun in a game full of mindless rushdown that seems to be most of your top 8.

I'd rather have her in than not have her at all, let me tell you.

I agree with you. I said the argument could be made. I'm not making it though. I love Tanya and she is BAE. I fail to see how she is OP, and it's a welcome change from 50/50 mixups. However, everyone seems to be real butthurt that they just can't jail her like you can jail everyone else though. I would consider it bad game design purely because so few characters have a "thing" like tanya does. I'd enhance other characters though, not nerf tanya.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Two thoughts that occurred to me at work this evening.

1. While I'm all for interesting and unique characters, Tanya in her current form feels like a Marvel character dropped into MKX. In a game where movement is so important, and your movement options (backdash, run) were seen to be so powerful that they were purposefully limited with a stamina system, having a character who can move with the kind of freedom that Tanya does feels out of place. I have no idea what the fix to her is, but teleports costing maybe 1/4 stamina would still allow her burst movement and the ability to complete combos.

2. Remember that she was only just released. The arguments for her power/learning to deal with her go both ways, but I think in the end, power trumps "learning to deal." What I mean here:

I think the fact that she is incredibly strong due to being a "meta breaker" right now is not going to lessen. Yes, people will learn to deal with her teleport, but due to how it currently functions and how fast the game plays, the risk/reward feels strongly in her favor. Sitting there and looking to nj2 it is all well and good, but when the game plays at breakneck speed and you're also having to watch for 5 other options, your attention resource gets spread thin.

The main thing that this makes me think of is Kabal, and what the gents would discuss on the old Kombat Tomb Podcast. Sure, people will learn to deal with Tanya. But Tanya players are also going to continue to level up. When Kabal first seemed brokenly strong, it was always "well, it's just REO." But one by one, more and more Kabal mains started showing up. Near the end, almost every top player had a pocket Kabal.


I'd rather not see a case like that allowed to develop again. And mostly, based on what I said earlier today, this game HAS to look good at Evo for the scene to grow. So many eyes will be on it. Good character and playstyle variety makes for hype matches, and is the best possible advertisement for turning casuals into event attendees.

If you want your game to look good for hardcore players, you don't just cater to the casuals and even then, they really haven't been catering to the casuals well anyway. The netcode being bad and the constant patching because WBGames wants your money with bad DLC skins and characters being shoehorned in without much to go off of before your meta evolves is really bad, and has stunted the game's growth exponentially. I would know, I see it all the time from people who were either fans of MK, or are hardcore FG players. There's something to be said about the way NRS really seems "mindless" when it comes to their games and how they approach them. This exact same issue just happened two years ago!

Skullgirls is getting more tournament numbers, a game with good netcode. GGXRD has playable netcode, and so that scene is growing.

NRS/WBGames, even with an okay/good showing at EVO can only keep this game alive for so long because of the way they do business. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but it's time they learn how to stop shitting on the fan and playerbase equally, and give the fans a good netcode. Netcode means so much, that it's not bringing in new players. You're seeing older faces, with anyone interested immediately deterred. Not everyone's gonna wanna just jump into their locals, and the stark difference between online and offline is so bad, it's killing the game more than Tanya is. Though I do think they need to approach DLC characters a different way, and not just release them one by one.

KOFXIII: One of the greatest fighting games of all time to me, died in the States due to bad netcode. It'll happen to any game like that. Before someone tells me SF4 is trash online, XBOX Live disagrees.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I agree with you. I said the argument could be made. I'm not making it though. I love Tanya and she is BAE. I fail to see how she is OP, and it's a welcome change from 50/50 mixups. However, everyone seems to be real butthurt that they just can't jail her like you can jail everyone else though. I would consider it bad game design purely because so few characters have a "thing" like tanya does. I'd enhance other characters though, not nerf tanya.

I get you weren't trying to make the argument, but that goes to anyone who thinks Tanya breaks the meta. No, she fits into the meta much like any other character and to be honest? If people could at least begin to learn on the fly and AA or air to air her, what really needs to be done much more than that? She's not Kabal at all. I hate even seeing that argument be made.

 

[THTB]

It's dumb, because I like the idea behind her. I just don't think she should have that kind of air mobility and be totally untouchable for periods at a time. I said that was an issue when I found out she was. If you could hit her out of teleport, that would be a big change, but not ruining. Just being able to actually hit her more often would be fine.