Match-Up Discussion - Takeda Takeda Matchup Discussion

[ZigZag]

Hold on you primarily use lasher? That's far more interesting than match up discussions. What kind of tech are you holding onto that I don't know about? Everyone's using Shirai Ryu and Ronin. I've been meaning to learn lasher but no one has given me a reason too.. What do you like about it over the other two?

I like it's superior damage and how straight forward it is to play over the others, well SR is straight forward but really it's so high risk low reward when you compare it to lasher, also the 1 is god like if you use it right.
For example I was just labbing and if kenshi blocks it and tries to do a reversal with shoulder charge I can cancel into a whip assault and beat the charge, or cancel into Kunai to make myself safe if I don't think he's going to reversal.
Applying to to other characters to enhance your spacing game is a great tool in itself

 

[ZigZag]

yeah just looking at what I can and can't do and there's nothing you can do to punish kenshi's specials straight up he's just too slow i'm afraid, most of kenshi's shit is about -15/-12 and has a little pushback there's options but nothing to straight up punish him, If you're in you get the option to go low but his overheads are too slow before he could potentially throw out another special knocking you full screen again so there's no real 50/50 threat he just has to block low really if he wants to respect me, otherwise he can attempt to push me full screen again.

I don't think there's a whole lot you can do up close in either SR or Lasher still, your long range game is completely out of whack against Kenshi too, i'm curios if Ronin deals with this MU better.

 

[Zoidberg747]

yeah just looking at what I can and can't do and there's nothing you can do to punish kenshi's specials straight up he's just too slow i'm afraid, most of kenshi's shit is about -15/-12 and has a little pushback there's options but nothing to straight up punish him, If you're in you get the option to go low but his overheads are too slow before he could potentially throw out another special knocking you full screen again so there's no real 50/50 threat he just has to block low really if he wants to respect me, otherwise he can attempt to push me full screen again.

I don't think there's a whole lot you can do up close in either SR or Lasher still, your long range game is completely out of whack against Kenshi too, i'm curios if Ronin deals with this MU better.

Im not looking to punish him though, if I can get stagger strings going then he really can't deal with them well.

Also Lasher doesnt outdamage Shirai Ryu, that is straight up false lol.

 

[ZigZag]

Im not looking to punish him though, if I can get stagger strings going then he really can't deal with them well.

Also Lasher doesnt outdamage Shirai Ryu, that is straight up false lol.

He really does when you look at meter spent on SR over Lasher to damage dealt Lasher wins this little bout.

 

[Zoidberg747]

He really does when you look at meter spent on SR over Lasher to damage dealt Lasher wins this little bout.

So your talking meterless damage then?

The thing is in Shirai he builds a shit ton of meter. Like I always have at least one bar, most of the time even two. So whenever I get a chance to punish/combo chances are I will have the meter for it.

Plus Lasher doesnt even get that much without meter either unless I am missing something.

 

[ZigZag]

So your talking meterless damage then?

The thing is in Shirai he builds a shit ton of meter. Like I always have at least one bar, most of the time even two. So whenever I get a chance to punish/combo chances are I will have the meter for it.

Plus Lasher doesnt even get that much without meter either unless I am missing something.

Meterless or one meter it's all the same, for what is practical and not just something someone beat out on an non-guarding bot in training.
I wonder how much you've played Lasher really before you judge, I mained SR like every one else under the sun until I saw what Lasher was truely made of, really there's different times to use each one of them but this notion that Lasher shouldn't be touched is pretty awful.

What's your highest practical meterless SR combo btw?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Meterless or one meter it's all the same, for what is practical and not just something someone beat out on an non-guarding bot in training.
I wonder how much you've played Lasher really before you judge, I mained SR like every one else under the sun until I saw what Lasher was truely made of, really there's different times to use each one of them but this notion that Lasher shouldn't be touched is pretty awful.

What's your highest practical meterless SR combo btw?

28-29% F12 2+4(first hit) tele njp j3 air spear

I mained lasher for most of the few weeks I played with him before. I also never said you shouldnt play him, because in certain MUs those defensive options come in handy. But as far as meter building and stagger string mind games go Shirai Ryu is better IMO

 

[ZigZag]

28-29% F12 2+4(first hit) tele njp j3 air spear

I mained lasher for most of the few weeks I played with him before. I also never said you shouldnt play him, because in certain MUs those defensive options come in handy. But as far as meter building and stagger string mind games go Shirai Ryu is better IMO

What are you using for such high meter build anyway what are you referring to?
The buff recently made lashers 1 meter combo much stronger though and can be converted from half way across the screen easily which is nice.

 

[Zoidberg747]

What are you using for such high meter build anyway what are you referring to?
The buff recently made lashers 1 meter combo much stronger though and can be converted from half way across the screen easily which is nice.

What damage does it do? Because Shirai Ryu gets 38% with one bar.

The meter building is all off tele cancels and kunai.

 

[ZigZag]

What damage does it do? Because Shirai Ryu gets 38% with one bar.

The meter building is all off tele cancels and kunai.

You can do 40, but practically speaking you would end up with like 35%

I get yah yeah that does make sense, that tech though is kind of wasted on certain matchups the Kenshi one being one in particular unfortunately
Personally I just feel their neutral game is about equal but the spacing game is in Kenshi's favour which is why I think Kenshi has the edge in this MU.

 

[Immortal Kombat]

What are you using for such high meter build anyway what are you referring to?
The buff recently made lashers 1 meter combo much stronger though and can be converted from half way across the screen easily which is nice.

Lasher is still weaker, I get in the 50's with two bars in SR lol. I main both though and it's nice now that Lasher damage is at least viable, it was so weak before

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Uh you cant punish his specials but you can do a dash and now you are in F1 2+4 or f12 2+4 range.

Nullifying b21 is not that big of a deal as it is nullified in a lot of MUs(you can backdash/armor the followups much easier and it is slower). You don't really have to use meter unless in punishes, maybe an EX tele on a read. But if he keeps flurrying you can jump over one on a read and get an air spear for a hard knockdown or an EX for a punish.

If you keep losing to air to airs bait one and do air tele.

If you use max range f12 2+4 pressure this MU isnt that bad at all. If you do it max ranged none of his armor moves will hit you IIRC(Rising Karma for Balanced, Overhead spin for Kenjistu, Maybe Armor Demons punish it?) So you can pretty much throw kunai and he has to respect it, and anytime you block one of his specials you get to position yourself at the best range.

I dont have a number for the MU but I think you are greatly oversimplifying it. He definitely doesnt lose it very badly.

Edit: Now that I think about it I am pretty sure you can punish some of his moves with run f12 2+4. Ill have to test but if so thats an easy 24% any time you block one of his specials.

Almost all of this is wrong. What Kenshi do you play against?

Ask @RedRaptor10 how his set went vs. Pig. Pretty much none of what you wrote is actually correct

 

[jaepeso170]

Im still in learning mode but can someone explain the numbers in the MUs i.e 6-4 , 5-5 etc

 

[jaepeso170]

Meterless or one meter it's all the same, for what is practical and not just something someone beat out on an non-guarding bot in training.
I wonder how much you've played Lasher really before you judge, I mained SR like every one else under the sun until I saw what Lasher was truely made of, really there's different times to use each one of them but this notion that Lasher shouldn't be touched is pretty awful.

What's your highest practical meterless SR combo btw?

I have been in the lab with Lasher and it has grown on me, one drawback i have is post patch has the damage scaling a bit off

But a good combo that i have pulled off regularly

Jip, 44 ~EX Whip Trip, 112 ~ EX Lasher, njp, Lasher
U can avoid the ex lasher and just use the regular but with ex i have hit for 38-40% compared to aroun 31-33 with regular (damage scaling gets tricky)

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I have been in the lab with Lasher and it has grown on me, one drawback i have is post patch has the damage scaling a bit off

But a good combo that i have pulled off regularly

Jip, 44 ~EX Whip Trip, 112 ~ EX Lasher, njp, Lasher
U can avoid the ex lasher and just use the regular but with ex i have hit for 38-40% compared to aroun 31-33 with regular (damage scaling gets tricky)

Idk who ur playing against but jip 44 shouldn't be your go to. Takeda isn't much of a jump in character

 

[jaepeso170]

Idk who ur playing against but jip 44 shouldn't be your go to. Takeda isn't much of a jump in character

Yea i should have put IF i land a jip lol. I just posted 1 combo that I used in Lasher, I will post some more in few. However imo the time a jik can work would be ji3~air spear, that usually works out good for when i use ot

 

[GuerillaTactix]

He really does when you look at meter spent on SR over Lasher to damage dealt Lasher wins this little bout.

This just isn't true.. What 43% Bnb are you using in lasher that only costs one bar? Can you make it 49 with two? 56 with three?

 

[GuerillaTactix]

This just isn't true.. What 43% Bnb are you using in lasher that only costs one bar? Can you make it 49 with two? 56 with three?

Btw I know there's high Shirai Ryu combos but I'm talking strictly off viable combo starters not ex kunai into 44 combo starters. I'm clearly not using lasher right because I wreckt my brain trying to get more than 43% two bars..

 

[GuerillaTactix]

I have been in the lab with Lasher and it has grown on me, one drawback i have is post patch has the damage scaling a bit off

But a good combo that i have pulled off regularly

Jip, 44 ~EX Whip Trip, 112 ~ EX Lasher, njp, Lasher
U can avoid the ex lasher and just use the regular but with ex i have hit for 38-40% compared to aroun 31-33 with regular (damage scaling gets tricky)

You should honestly try using f21 ~EX whip lash, Njp, Jik ~EX tornado kick, f21 whip lash. Point is if you're gunna use two bars whip trip scales more than tornado kick whip combos after a damaging jump in kick. Try combos using EX tornado kick mid combo in lasher and ronin. It's pointless in Shirai Ryu though.

 

[ZigZag]

Btw I know there's high Shirai Ryu combos but I'm talking strictly off viable combo starters not ex kunai into 44 combo starters. I'm clearly not using lasher right because I wreckt my brain trying to get more than 43% two bars..

No you're right you only get 35-40 from practical starts with Lasher but it's safer from the mid screen region to start, what's the 43% SR one?
Think the one i'd been using was like 38-40%

 

[ZigZag]

I have been in the lab with Lasher and it has grown on me, one drawback i have is post patch has the damage scaling a bit off

But a good combo that i have pulled off regularly

Jip, 44 ~EX Whip Trip, 112 ~ EX Lasher, njp, Lasher
U can avoid the ex lasher and just use the regular but with ex i have hit for 38-40% compared to aroun 31-33 with regular (damage scaling gets tricky)

You can get 40% just doing Jip, 44 ~EX Whip assault NJP, walk forward, 44 Whip assault

 

[GuerillaTactix]

You should honestly try using f21 ~EX whip lash, Njp, Jik ~EX tornado kick, f21 whip lash. Point is if you're gunna use two bars whip trip scales more than tornado kick whip combos after a damaging jump in kick. Try combos using EX tornado kick mid combo in lasher and ronin. It's pointless in Shirai Ryu though.

Ok the best I got with two bars is 45%. That's garbage for not having tele cancels to build meter with.. this is WITH the impractical jip btw. Jip 44, ~ex whip lash, ji3 ~ex tornado kick, 44 whip lash. That's 45% but it's situational.

ronin has jip 44, ~ex fist flurry, jik ~EX tornado kick, 44 Shirai Ryu kan which has a ton of corner carry does 44% two bars. If your execution is on point he has jip 44, ~ex fist flurry, run 112, blade drop, ex blade kill, 44 ~Shirai Ryu kan. It does 47% two bar and has the same corner carry.

In every respect lasher is the least damaging variation.

 

[ZigZag]

In any case I play all 3, I think it's weak sauce not to play them all especially when the buffs/nerfs aren't complete yet in this game.
I'm holding true to all 3 variations they all do some really different things for him, I suggest y'all do the same.

 

[ZigZag]

But I agree there's clear advantages to the others but Lasher IMO is super fucking easy to play over the other 2, especially Ronin. that's another advantage to it

 

[GuerillaTactix]

In any case I play all 3, I think it's weak sauce not to play them all especially when the buffs/nerfs aren't complete yet in this game.
I'm holding true to all 3 variations they all do some really different things for him, I suggest y'all do the same.

Fair enough. I don't plan on leaving you hanging. Just always wondering if people found stuff that gives me that ah ha moment. I do agree the armor capabilities in lasher make it awesome. I actually started picking lasher in the takeda mirror for that purpose. Those gaps bro.. Lol!