I honestly don't know how much advantage you get off EX throw. EX Throw seems best in corners, but I figure this TK vortex might be better for fullscreen since you can't backdash out.Is ex grab +22? Does it allow you to actually cash out damage to get the opponent in a severe frame disadvantage?
I think it's pretty advantageous.Is ex grab +22? Does it allow you to actually cash out damage to get the opponent in a severe frame disadvantage?
It sounds more like you despise F44 being unsafe, lol. In which case I 100% agree. Gimme good block frames on this low damage knockdownBecause, F44 is -8, some characters have the ability to punish that, essentially making all reset options unsafe (f4, F44, F4 roll, Ex roll)
I love you chance, but i really despise this variation right now. lol.
***Available only to Ethereal Mileena.
Mileena has a true Vortex/reset depending on which option she chooses.
Check the video.
Here is an example of the guaranteed damage output:
123~ex fade 123~telekick =23 %
F4 (low) and Ex Roll(oh) are completely Guaranteed and inescapable. No backdashing, no armour...nothing.
So if we connect a F4 we can:
1) Full combo = F4~roll JF4~telekick~sai B22~sai teleport backwards = 31% + 23% = 54% total 1 bar.
2) Vortex/safety confirm = F4~Ex Fade into reset or damage string.
If we connect the OH roll
we can go into NJP 214 = 22% +23% = 45% damage total into Oki setup.
Only love my friend.I think it's pretty advantageous.
But what's more critical is mileena doesn't have better tools/options during a reset as other characters do. Her pressure and safety from her mixups aren't good compared to other characters.
I mean she has to do ex roll for an overhead option, or f4.
Off a grounded teleport, ravenous is cool because you can do f4 high pounce for an easy 20%, and you're -7 if blocked.
You can also just do like 123 teleport kick in any variation for like 8-10% less, but still gives you the +22 on hit.
If her f3 was like 18 frames then maybe, but her overhead is limited to just ex roll.
If you're spending 1 bar to add on 10% and then have your reset blocked and punished, Mileena loses out here. Because, F44 is -8, some characters have the ability to punish that, essentially making all reset options unsafe (f4, F44, F4 roll, Ex roll)
I love you chance, but i really despise this variation right now. lol.
Actually just tested that. Grab does allow you to reset into the F4 or the OH guaranteed just like the video above. It actually increases the damage as well.This vortex doesn't really seem much better than any 50/50 character ending a string in an EX-Grab.
She gets more damage in ethereal due to the fade confirm, and she can vortex it off her low option with ex fade and still remain safe.Major props for the work and the effort Chance. Like Mr. Mileena, I agree 100% that this variations is a lot of work for very low output.
As far as the vortex goes......123 ex fade, 123 telekick....what is different when hit confirming telekick after 123 in any of her other variations and why is it specific for this one only?
Yeah you can cancel f1 on whiff into any ex special. I have no idea why but whatever. If you want to get up close for mixups your better off just using run instead of fade. Off a normal fade you are probably being punished by those poke.if your opponent is trying to poke out of pressure end you strings with ex fade to get frame advantage and you can beat there pokes with your own.I noticed that you can cancel f1 into EX Fade without making contact. I'm not sure of a real use other than potentially baiting a wakeup and then punishing. Unfortunately, if the bait doesn't work you wasted a bar. Also, we already have good wakeup stoppers anyway. Just figured I'd share the information as it is the only normal I've found.
Also, an obvious tip, but sometimes a helpful reminder: If you're using this variation, make sure you VARY the amount of time that you stay in fade. It really messes with the opponent's rhythm. What I like to do is start off with really long ones to get a feel for the other player, and then speed them up.
As good as Ethereal is, I still feel that normal fade needs fewer startup frames. I totally get the recovery, but since you get so little from a fade, it could do with a shorter startup. Just enough that you could use it to escape on a read, but not be able to punish because of recovery.
How are Ethereal users dealing with opponents that spam pokes (d1, d3, or d4) when you fade or vanish towards them? I know one solution is to never go towards, but sometimes I like to for a mixup. Usually I adjust and stop going towards, but I wanted to know if there was a better strategy/option? I've tried low blocking when I come out, but I usually still get hit. Could possibly be a lag issue
Sure, you can ask me or any other Ethereal Mileena player who has labbed.So, I'm new to all of this and trying to get more in depth for my own benefit. I just wanted to be sure that I'm looking at things the right way. Currently, I'm trying to calculate frame advantage on block of different strings with vanish cancels.
To make sure I'm correct, here's the method I'm using:
1. Set AI to jump and always block.
2. Perform string/cancel
2a. Jump if I am simply looking for advantage
2b. Try another attack of a specified frame number if I'm looking for exact advantage.
I'm asking this because I'm checking specifically for frame trap block pressure. Using this method, I'm seeing
f23~Vanish as around +10 (AI blocks d3 but jumps before d4 hits)
Alternatively, is there a better method? I know I could do the math, but I'm more of a visual and tactile learner so actually doing it to SEE the advantage works better for me. If this method is correct, I wouldn't mind finding and listing out all of the options on hit and block for everyone assuming it hasn't been done already
Thanks for the info. My next question is: With the previous method I was using, what exactly can be determined? Nothing?Sure, you can ask me or any other Ethereal Mileena player who has labbed.
F24~Ex Fade is +7 on block.
A simple way to test it is to find a character with a reversal special such as Cassie or Kung Lao that has a short startup. If you trade with the move, you then know the frame advantage that you have.
Regular fades are never plus on block. The recovery is to much.
Here is the method I used to test frames.
B2 is a 13f mid. Which means it can't be crouched or poked unless cleanly beaten.
If I do F24~Ex Fade and have the ai reversal special (Cassie or Kung Lao is great for this) I can determine my frame advantage.
Since F24~Ex Fade allows me to trade my 13f B2 with Getaway Flip (6f) I can then determine that my frame advantage is +7 frames. (this is calculated by taking the startup of my move and subtracting the startup of the move that is currently trading with).
Bear in mind, you both need perfect execution to guarantee the above scenario. If Mileena is a frame off, getaway flip will blow it up, just as if Cassie is a frame off she will get full combo punished by a B2 for attempting a getaway flip. It's a lot easier to buffer reversals than it is to be frame perfect off of your advantage.
You are on the right track. It's not that a reversal special comes out faster, it's that non reversal specials come out slower. Reversal specials have 1 frame of block stun while normals have two frames.Thanks for the info. My next question is: With the previous method I was using, what exactly can be determined? Nothing?
I'll definitely be using the reversal method for future attempts
Sorry for so many questions, but also: I am under the impression that reversals come out 1 frame faster, so as a reversal Cassie's flip is 5 frames instead of 6 isn't it? So it would technically be +8 since we should subtract 5? Not that it really matters, I just want my understanding to be as concrete as possible so I have a solid foundation.