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Video/Tutorial - Sun God Sun God Choke! Let's Put 'Em All to Sleep! (videos and discussion)

GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
Is this a good place for MU discussion?

I had two rough MU last night. Aftershock Tremor and the newly buffed zoning variation of erron black. both zoned me our very well...so many MU in this game. outlaw im used to now but any tips on this variation?
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A lot of his seemingly bad matchups aren't as bad as I thought early on. Just learn how to recognize the strings and block them consistently. Also, force them to make hard reads with fuzzy blocking. Switching between reactive blocking and fuzzy guarding takes away that easy damage. Plus, even against good zoners - if you can bait them to get one knockdown - you can EX Sun Stone and run up behind it to stay close. Just be patient and eat the block damage that you have to and take opportunities as they arise.
 
TotallyNotKotalKahn

TotallyNotKotalKahn

Low Tier Addict
Yeah he really became a monster this patch. I am considering him for a pocket character. I know there is a gap on the final shot of ground guns, i havent tested if its counterable but i think you can jump it. I know it hit a lot for some reason though. I know he is much more dangerous now than he was though. The last ground shot also travels almost full screen and its har knockdown, i will have to look into this matchup it sounds more andmore dangerous the more I think about it.
 
L

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
Did a quick primer on the SGC to make it stand alone from a large guide I put together. I'll put it on the front page too. I want to know, how does everyone like the SGC since the patch's changes? For me, I've really enjoyed it because you can finally use the meter management/life management options available via Soul Scorch since it's much easier to get back up to level 3.

 
L

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
Another breakdown of Sun God variant only power ups: Soul Spark and Soul Scorch. Since you get a lot more mileage from them now after the patch, I wanted to begin discussions again on how we should work the two buffs into our game. I look forward to hearing comments from everybody! :D


 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
LeeVanDam said:
Did a quick primer on the SGC to make it stand alone from a large guide I put together. I'll put it on the front page too. I want to know, how does everyone like the SGC since the patch's changes? For me, I've really enjoyed it because you can finally use the meter management/life management options available via Soul Scorch since it's much easier to get back up to level 3.

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Nice vid.

The cross-ups off the Level 1 and 2 versions are key. Don't let them up without making a correct hard read.
 
Genei Jin

Genei Jin

Noob
after using and maining war god kotal kahn since mkx got released, i finally tried out sun god variation.

all i can say is wow, this grappler is legit! he can tick throw for days with his superior normals and the easier command grab motion helps a lot.

perhaps the best grappler in the game behind erron black although you can duck errons command throw.
 
L

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
GAV said:
Nice vid.

The cross-ups off the Level 1 and 2 versions are key. Don't let them up without making a correct hard read.
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I completely agree GAV, being at +25 after the level 1/2 SGC should mean than no one gets away from you without a guess. There are just too many options for you to keep your offensive going, for example:

1. Empty jump, SGC
2. JIP, pause, SGC
3. Empty jump, d+4 > EX Sunstone, run cancel, 1,1,4 > air throw, etc. ( later on just replace this block string with d+4 > SGC tick throw)
4. JIP, d+1 > SGC

The list could go on for days, but once that first choke lands... make them guess!! No one walks away for free! :D
 
Reactions: GAV
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
LeeVanDam said:
I completely agree GAV, being at +25 after the level 1/2 SGC should mean than no one gets away from you without a guess. There are just too many options for you to keep your offensive going, for example:

1. Empty jump, SGC
2. JIP, pause, SGC
3. Empty jump, d+4 > EX Sunstone, run cancel, 1,1,4 > air throw, etc. ( later on just replace this block string with d+4 > SGC tick throw)
4. JIP, d+1 > SGC

The list could go on for days, but once that first choke lands... make them guess!! No one walks away for free! :D
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Imagine if his neutral J1 had enough range to connect at the cross-up range...
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Played a ton vs Jason this past weekend, the matchup is pretty much footsies and each character has 1 equaliser. For Jason it's pursuit and for Kotal it's damage output out of any stray hit.

In any case, I feel Kotal has a very slight advantage in the sense that there's more you have to worry about as Jason. Then again, a proper sequence of pursuits can destroy you.
 
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LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
Watched Honeybee's set versus iLuusions last night. iLuusions did a wonderful job of converting off stray hits, and keeping the pressure on by mixing up when he was going to end the strings after a blocked 1,1,4 > air throw. Wonderful set that showcases the importance of spacing for us also.


 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
LeeVanDam said:
Watched Honeybee's set versus iLuusions last night. iLuusions did a wonderful job of converting off stray hits, and keeping the pressure on by mixing up when he was going to end the strings after a blocked 1,1,4 > air throw. Wonderful set that showcases the importance of spacing for us also.


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Good set. I think staggering F1 is not a good idea at all though. It has considerable recovery and can easily be reacted to, unlike B1. Also F1 on hit is like only +6, so if you got it they still can get away. IMO just let the F12 rip, since it's safe and has a semi-mindgame on block with ex cmd grab, and on hit it has awesome advantage and you can run in and get pressure or bait wakeups, etc.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Braindead said:
Good set. I think staggering F1 is not a good idea at all though. It has considerable recovery and can easily be reacted to, unlike B1. Also F1 on hit is like only +6, so if you got it they still can get away. IMO just let the F12 rip, since it's safe and has a semi-mindgame on block with ex cmd grab, and on hit it has awesome advantage and you can run in and get pressure or bait wakeups, etc.
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It's useful. It's something different so every person has a different reaction.

In most cases you can get either a

D1 on block
D1 on hit because they didn't unblock fast enough

and in 90% of cases you can do F1 into ex sun choke and it's free damage.

Then you start mixing it up with f12.

Anyway, expected better footsies in the vid.
 
L

Lal

Noob
I have a few ideas for sgc set ups and id like to know what fellow sun gods think.
If you land a d1 or d4 you are plus enough that after recovery you can immediately do a sgc. Your opponent will have a very tight window to armor out (1 frame at the very least). If they decide to jump out or armor they run the risk of getting hit hard by your b122 or 114 combos.
Another idea is using 114 sunstone as a frame trap. Since its plus you can use b1 or f1 for set ups or you can just sgc since you're just close enough for it to land.
Of course they have their risks but it just adds more mix up options for sun god kotal.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Lal said:
I have a few ideas for sgc set ups and id like to know what fellow sun gods think.
If you land a d1 or d4 you are plus enough that after recovery you can immediately do a sgc. Your opponent will have a very tight window to armor out (1 frame at the very least). If they decide to jump out or armor they run the risk of getting hit hard by your b122 or 114 combos.
Another idea is using 114 sunstone as a frame trap. Since its plus you can use b1 or f1 for set ups or you can just sgc since you're just close enough for it to land.
Of course they have their risks but it just adds more mix up options for sun god kotal.
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I use that constantly. Basically every d1 I land is a free 19% command grab for me. If my opponent finally gets bored with it and tries to press buttons, I go for a full combo instead since they're not blocking.

Basically it's like Kotal has a 6f 21% punish.
 
Slavaslave

Slavaslave

Professional Casual
I havent played on beta, but seeing the changes it really looks like a nerf. Yes b14 will connect if the opponent doesnt do anything, but people will quickly learn to react to b14 since its a fairly slow string. Theres no other followup to that string either in SG except EXpizza. Unless there was some frame data I am missing I feel like SG just became harder to play against reasonably skilled players.
 
L

LeeVanDam

Sun God Advocate
Braindead said:
Good set. I think staggering F1 is not a good idea at all though. It has considerable recovery and can easily be reacted to, unlike B1. Also F1 on hit is like only +6, so if you got it they still can get away. IMO just let the F12 rip, since it's safe and has a semi-mindgame on block with ex cmd grab, and on hit it has awesome advantage and you can run in and get pressure or bait wakeups, etc.
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I'm sorry for being so late. Most of the actual SGC choke mindgame has always relied on someone knowing that you may continue a string so that way you stay semi safe. Conditioning an opponent with f+1,2 is important because on hit you can power up twice... but like you said on block it's -6 so you can EX grab retaliations.

Later on, I'll do f+1 > air throw because even though it isn't true advantage it makes the opponent see me doing something so by the time the air throw recovers (and they realize they're not being hit) I'm able to d+4/SGC or EX SGC for safety.

The goal is to make the opponent willing to take the throw because they don't want to end up eating the other option because they reacted. f+1,2 and f+4 allow you to power up SGC/sun ray/blood offering freely on hit... but no one really knows that until it happens. It's like one of those small nuances that can really turn the tables since it can set you up for healing or more damage while they roll away.

Lal said:
I have a few ideas for sgc set ups and id like to know what fellow sun gods think.
If you land a d1 or d4 you are plus enough that after recovery you can immediately do a sgc. Your opponent will have a very tight window to armor out (1 frame at the very least). If they decide to jump out or armor they run the risk of getting hit hard by your b122 or 114 combos.
Another idea is using 114 sunstone as a frame trap. Since its plus you can use b1 or f1 for set ups or you can just sgc since you're just close enough for it to land.
Of course they have their risks but it just adds more mix up options for sun god kotal.
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Lal, I'm very glad you're on the same page as us with SGC set ups. With the mindset you have about creating situations where the opponents has terrible choices between the SGC and eating a string, you'll go far :)
 
Reactions: Lal
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