Video/Tutorial - Sun God Sun God Choke! Let's Put 'Em All to Sleep! (videos and discussion)

[Second Saint]

Ok, so my opinion of Kotal's Sun God variation has changed drastically over the last week or so. I started the game fully committed to Blood God and War God, but lately, my eyes have really opened up to the ultimate utility and irrefutable swag that Sun Choke brings to the table. People just don't know how to deal with command grab pressure. They start doing silly things once they are afraid to block and you can really open them up with your quick-hitting punish strings like 114 and F1B2. I hit SO many more 114s in Sun God than I do in Blood God. If your opponents are hesitant to block against the highest damaging character in the game . . . that can cause them some problems

War God is still clearly his most competitively viable variation, but I'm starting to sense that Sun God is also viable while easily being the most fun. I STILL sincerely believe that Sun Choke should do more raw damage and that Sun Ray/God Ray should have slightly decreased start-up frames. Those two things would make Sun God extremely competitive, IMO.

p.s. And of course, utilizing parry correctly is CRUCIAL to making Sun God or Blood God viable.

Well, Keyser, the start up on Sun/God Ray is fine. It's all the recovery. 18 start up frames and 50 recovery. I feel like NRS drastically over values healing as a tool and consequently decided to make it next to impossible to use compared to otherwise similar abilities.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Well, Keyser, the start up on Sun/God Ray is fine. It's all the recovery. 18 start up frames and 50 recovery. I feel like NRS drastically over values healing as a tool and consequently decided to make it next to impossible to use compared to otherwise similar abilities.

Changing either one would help, but point taken.

 

[LeeVanDam]

In light of the patch, I went into the lab to check on a few things and see how increasing the damage on the Sun God Choke affected us. I think it's great, and I made a video about it. I'm looking forward to us discussing more options now that the Sun God Choke is quite a bit scarier. I also added the video to my first post at the top in order to keep everyone from having to search all the time.

 

[DoctorSexual]

Is a NON corner Choke possible on the ground bounce from B122? I hit it a few times online but I dont know how to recreate it. Or could it have been because of lag or something?

EDIT: Ok I guess its only possible on certain characters since I can do it on Cassie and Jacqui

 

[VenomX-90]

Putting them to sleep is good, but putting bitches on their knees is way better. Good shit.

 

[LeeVanDam]

Can someone tell me if the improved hitbox on the choke makes it harder to low profile please? I just read the patch notes, but I can't play yet. Saddness.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Can someone tell me if the improved hitbox on the choke makes it harder to low profile please? I just read the patch notes, but I can't play yet. Saddness.

I'm on PC so I don't have a clue and probably won't for at least 2 weeks.

 

[Gody]

Can someone tell me if the improved hitbox on the choke makes it harder to low profile please? I just read the patch notes, but I can't play yet. Saddness.

Well I just played a bit yesterday with a friend and I feel like it is. He did not low profiled as much of my SGC as he did before patch. Anyway it is just my feelings about it.

 

[LeeVanDam]

Is a NON corner Choke possible on the ground bounce from B122? I hit it a few times online but I dont know how to recreate it. Or could it have been because of lag or something?

EDIT: Ok I guess its only possible on certain characters since I can do it on Cassie and Jacqui

B+1,2,2 > SGC is possible mid screen all the time. I know this is terribly late, but it comes in handy when you're doing block strings. B+1,2,2 can be inputted much faster than the moves execute so you have time to choose whether to cancel into SGC on hit (outside of corner), or EX Sunstone for frame advantage on block (or hit in corner for massive damage). Qwark already showed how amazing b+1,2,2 after the block string 1,1,4 > air throw... and I've been using this in my matches and found a much better pacing. You even have the opportunity once their wise to b+1,2,2, needing armor to interrupt (because 1,1,4 > air throw is +4 on block) that you can cancel into SGC from b+1 and get so much extra damage from the throw. He's really created the foundation of our ground game, and it's awesome. Thanks again Qwark!!

 

[Rager Da Prince]

Would this be considered the general discussion thread for Sun God?

 

[LeeVanDam]

Would this be considered the general discussion thread for Sun God?

Sounds great, let's keep Sun God talk in this thread.

 

[Rager Da Prince]

I wish f34 was comboable mid screen. Less push back or run cancelable. It sucks spending meter when we should be able to sgc after it. Just for fun, could you imagine if b2 gave us a mini ground bounce?

 

[LeeVanDam]

I wish f34 was comboable mid screen. Less push back or run cancelable. It sucks spending meter when we should be able to sgc after it. Just for fun, could you imagine if b2 gave us a mini ground bounce?

I'd love for that to happen to f+3,4... but since it gives us almost half life in the corner I understand why we don't get a lot of options midscreen.

I'd love for b+2 to give a mini bounce, but what I would really love is for it to cleanly jump over all lows. That'd be a game changer.

 

[Rager Da Prince]

I'd love for that to happen to f+3,4... but since it gives us almost half life in the corner I understand why we don't get a lot of options midscreen.

I'd love for b+2 to give a mini bounce, but what I would really love is for it to cleanly jump over all lows. That'd be a game changer.

Doesn't F1 crush lows?

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

Is a NON corner Choke possible on the ground bounce from B122? I hit it a few times online but I dont know how to recreate it. Or could it have been because of lag or something?

EDIT: Ok I guess its only possible on certain characters since I can do it on Cassie and Jacqui

It works a lot better if you whiff the first hit and/or catch them in the air. For some reason not hitting the first strike keeps the opponent a lot closer to you after the third making it a lot easier to catch them. I prefer to just cancel into it after the second hit as its guaranteed on hit.

 

[LeeVanDam]

Qwark put together some amazing tech a couple of months ago which gave us an easy foundation for strong block strings. I've broken down the sequence a little bit more in regards to Sun God only, and especially how the choke can be worked into the block string. He told us that there were a billion cancel points, and he's absolutely right about that! I'll also put this on my first post as well so it is easy to find:

 

[Rager Da Prince]

Omg the new move is pretty dope. Wanna build meter? Praise the sun then burn it off. Wanna get some health back? Praise the sun and spend the bar you builded get it. Hell you can even use after 114 and be safe to at least 8 frame moves. Hell the health you get back now, makes using blood offering a more viable option.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

Praise the sun! Also this makes me want a solaire alternate costume for kotal.

 

[LeeVanDam]

I'll be going really in depth with the new stuff tonight, but in the hour I've gotten a chance to play this is what I've observed:

Soul Spark is really great because now that level 1 EX Soul Scorch cashes out at 8% health, it can give you lots of comeback potential in spurts. (8%, 12%, 18% are the respective healing amounts for each level of Sun God Power)

114 > Soul Spark appears to be maybe -8 on block. I've been able to consistently punish it with Reptile's EX Slide and Kung Lao's EX Spin, but can block Sub Zero's slide. It appears quick enough to easily slip by someone who has been conditioned by 1,1,4 > air throw that they shouldn't retaliate. Most characters still aren't going to be able to punish it on block.

d+4 > Soul Spark at max distance is crazy good on hit or block. Since Kotal Kahn doesn't move forward like he does with the whiffed Air throw, it's great bait for EX Cyclone which is out of range unless they move forward with it.

1,1,4 > Soul Scorch is going to start being used way more often because the recovery is only a couple of frames slower than 1,1,4 > air throw. It feels like +1 instead of +4. Even if it's even or -1 on block, most people can't contest your d+1 without armor and it's going to be great counter bait along with even better X-Ray bait. Since you'll have access to Sun Power more readily, you get to take a more holistic approach to meter and life management which will be lot of fun for us and really annoying for our opponents.


Between the parry absorbing projectiles and we can gain Sun God Power without the choke connecting, this forces opponents to come to us... especially if we have the life lead. Otherwise, we will win the battle of attrition thanks to our newly accessible healing capabilities.

I'll have more to say about the parry after I play some more matches, but I bet it feels more like an armor move we can rely upon now than it used to. I'm really excited!!

 

[VenomX-90]

I agree with the title, we should put our opponents asleep, and make them our b*tch. These mofos better recognize not to f**k with the Aztec warrior.

 

[Qwark28]

I'll be going really in depth with the new stuff tonight, but in the hour I've gotten a chance to play this is what I've observed:

Soul Spark is really great because now that level 1 EX Soul Scorch cashes out at 8% health, it can give you lots of comeback potential in spurts. (8%, 12%, 18% are the respective healing amounts for each level of Sun God Power)

114 > Soul Spark appears to be maybe -8 on block. I've been able to consistently punish it with Reptile's EX Slide and Kung Lao's EX Spin, but can block Sub Zero's slide. It appears quick enough to easily slip by someone who has been conditioned by 1,1,4 > air throw that they shouldn't retaliate. Most characters still aren't going to be able to punish it on block.

d+4 > Soul Spark at max distance is crazy good on hit or block. Since Kotal Kahn doesn't move forward like he does with the whiffed Air throw, it's great bait for EX Cyclone which is out of range unless they move forward with it.

1,1,4 > Soul Scorch is going to start being used way more often because the recovery is only a couple of frames slower than 1,1,4 > air throw. It feels like +1 instead of +4. Even if it's even or -1 on block, most people can't contest your d+1 without armor and it's going to be great counter bait along with even better X-Ray bait. Since you'll have access to Sun Power more readily, you get to take a more holistic approach to meter and life management which will be lot of fun for us and really annoying for our opponents.


Between the parry absorbing projectiles and we can gain Sun God Power without the choke connecting, this forces opponents to come to us... especially if we have the life lead. Otherwise, we will win the battle of attrition thanks to our newly accessible healing capabilities.

I'll have more to say about the parry after I play some more matches, but I bet it feels more like an armor move we can rely upon now than it used to. I'm really excited!!

I wouldn't do 114 spark, when it comes to up close situations it's way better to land a command grab.

Doing 114 spark could instead be

1 command throw
114 air throw command throw
114 air throw b1 command throw

etc

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

I wouldn't do 114 spark, when it comes to up close situations it's way better to land a command grab.

Doing 114 spark could instead be

1 command throw
114 air throw command throw
114 air throw b1 command throw

etc

Exactly, there is no reason to use spark at close range unless you are going for some kind of bait, or ex.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Is this a good place for MU discussion?

I had two rough MU last night. Aftershock Tremor and the newly buffed zoning variation of erron black. both zoned me our very well...so many MU in this game. outlaw im used to now but any tips on this variation?

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

gunslinger? i havent run into the new one yet, but i think that his straight double shot should be counterable by 1 normal and 1 ex. his new upshot looks dangerous as hell so I would try to stay out of the air. I think the best idea would be to stay out of his immediate range on wakeup and try to bait the slide as that is more punishable than most of his moves. What was he doing as far as tactics?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

gunslinger? i havent run into the new one yet, but i think that his straight double shot should be counterable by 1 normal and 1 ex. his new upshot looks dangerous as hell so I would try to stay out of the air. I think the best idea would be to stay out of his immediate range on wakeup and try to bait the slide as that is more punishable than most of his moves. What was he doing as far as tactics?

well the double shot is hard to react to since it has massive delay due to bullet travel time. It was tough to react to. Also the ground guns to push you full screen worked well. The overhead quarter bounce bullet is annoying too.

he honestly has an option for all your ways in. He also didn't use slide at all really