Suggested Nerfs without destroying the character?

[Error]

She already loses her turn on a blocked b3, it’s negative 3, all she can do is backdash. But yeah I ageee that since her b3 is so good , it should be more negative

Bsckdash away to safety vs most of the cast, d1 check, or she can mb b3, not really much of a lost turn lol.

 

[Rex24]

Bsckdash away to safety vs most of the cast, d1 check, or she can mb b3, not really much of a lost turn lol.

I see what you mean, I agree on her needing to be more negative on b3, but other than that there are other characters that are also safe (even plus) on everything like black Adam, wonder woman, batman and thats not a huge issue.

 

[Error]

I see what you mean, I agree on her needing to be more negative on b3, but other than that there are other characters that are also safe (even plus) on everything like black Adam, wonder woman, batman and thats not a huge issue.

All those characters have actual weaknesses that can be exploited though, can't really compare something like safety without context of how they work in a match. Most other characters need trait and or meter to stay safe or get little reward if the move is already safe on it's own. That doesn't really apply to like 33 or b3.

 

[Vengeance135]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa??????????

Oh Yeah that shit is dumb. Joker whiffs so much on her and if you try to whiff punish cheetah it whiffs and she punishes your whiff punish like whaaaaaa!!!!!

 

[Rex24]

All those characters have actual weaknesses that can be exploited though, can't really compare something like safety without context of how they work in a match. Most other characters need trait and or meter to stay safe or get little reward if the move is already safe on it's own. That doesn't really apply to like 33 or b3.

Please tell me how does black Adam get in trouble for having plus strings, a full screen low, an almost full screen overhead that is safe on meter burn or a forward advancing forward 12 that he can cancel into trait to go into throw or other shenanigans? Catwoman's 33 is NOT plus, if someone is not taking advantage of the gap in 33, its not the character's flaw, cat woman's 33 is only a problem in the corner; and a lot of other characters have extremely strong corner game. I don't think 33 is a problem, her main issue is low profiling and if that's fixed, she would be an honest character (Just my opinion, so no offense). And if you are talking about meter less damage, characters like Harley Quinn and batman have more meter less damage. I realize we are all stating our opinions here, so please don't take this to offense, I am only stating my opinion, I respect yours.

 

[God Confirm]

On a serious note, i really dont know, maybe adjusting her hurtbox in general. So much of what I try to do whiffs way to much.

I feel like that was the point of her design, she is supposed to be this slippery character, theres even an intro quote from FLASH like "you are way too slippery"

smh

if her game design is a bunch of whiff and hurtbox issues, then thats really bad design

 

[Rex24]

smh

if her game design is a bunch of whiff and hurtbox issues, then thats really bad design

Im not saying it's a good design, but that is the character's lore and nature and it has been there since IJ1

 

[dribirut]

Slightly nerf back dash

Make ji2 completely horizontal like scare crows

B3 negative 6

 

[MysTiiK_V]

Oh Yeah that shit is dumb. Joker whiffs so much on her and if you try to whiff punish cheetah it whiffs and she punishes your whiff punish like whaaaaaa!!!!!

ehh, but its still 5-5, could see it being annoying but its whatever

 

[Camsterdamus]

Biggest nerf would be me putting more than 5 minutes into practice mode

 

[Pan1cMode]

f1 range decreased
Damage nerf (so that she has similar damage to starfire)
Mb catdash -19 on block (will be ~-13 from full screen)
1f2 -1 on block

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

This is how I would nerf her:

- B3 doesn't low profile at all. Period.... like take away literally the whole low profiling frames and extend the hurtbox for the whole animation.

- J2 has a worse hitbox or make it like -6 on block (deep version of course) so it's still safe but she doesn't get any pressure on block off it

OR make it a high like Kitana's J1 and give it more recovery... it would still be great to jump in at a far range on a read against projectiles but it could get trip guarded so she would have to use it on a hard read and rely more on J1.

- Backdash now has an increased vertical hurtbox

- 1F2 is now -5 on block or keep it +2 but make it a mid.

- increase the scaling on her meterless launchers (especially 33b2)

- Make 33b2 -6, make the last hit a mid (so people can os a poke) and make it have less pushback.
Also fix the string against Green Arrow!!

It's quite a list but it's not that big deal... she would still be top 10 probably but right now she is too much in the damage, offense and defense departments... what these nerfs do is nerf her in every one of those aspects but she will still have good options.
Her backdash would still be long, her J2 could still be a treat but you'd have to use it carefully, MB B3 would still be a fast armored launcher but it would be able to get stuffed by double hitting moves easily and not low profile mids, her damage would still be good unless they decide to nerf it a lot which I really doubt and she would still have over the top safety and would have to use 33b2/f1123 to open people up with staggers

All these nerfs do is make the match-up easier for most of the cast which she beats and maybe give her a few more than 1 losing match-ups.

She would still be a great character but right now she is a bit unfair.

EDIT: this is not a nerf but make MB catdash very punisheable at any range.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

lol these people...

 

[Vengeance135]

ehh, but its still 5-5, could see it being annoying but its whatever

Yeah... No it's definitely 6-4 in her favor. How is it even? Lol

 

[masherofbuttons]

- Make 33b2 -6, make the last hit a mid (so people can os a poke) and make it have less pushback.

.

It's already possible to OS a poke and fuzzy the overhead.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Make catdash make negative on block when mb'd from fullscreen, fix her backdash low profiling capabilities, maybe more whiff recovery on f1123 string, change b3 animation (why not? Batman got a new b3), j2 doesn't combo into any string, only special moves so they either have to commit to catdash or just whip.
Less knockdown from her 1f2 and her whip.
Also damage scaling, she is arguably top 3 damage in the game for a bar or meterless

 

[thlityoursloat]

Cat dash being properly unsafe is a must.

 

[GLoRToR]

Give every character an unreactable teleport and safe mid zoning. Including Catwoman.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

If her b3 keeps it's low profiling, it needs to be more negative.

J2 is still too much. I think she should have to be semi-close to get anything to combo - but perhaps make it cause extended hit stun towards tips ranges allowing her to use it's outer ranges to gain pressure but not confirm for a combo. Right now if it hits at Max range you can't confirm into a combo I think, I'd just like to see the "deadzone" there increased. Again, buff the deadzone though to allow her pressure, just not 40% of my life.

Some scaling on meterless damage. Part of what makes her so insane is that she can touch you in SO many ways and any touch from a sharp player is huge damage. Just a string into whip or something similar is actually very high damage, she hits like a truck everywhere on the screen regardless of resources.

Her 1f1 and such have been brought up, and they are super strong but the only time I FEAR them is in the corner and if I'm.in the corner that's my fault, one way or another. I certainly wouldn't mind if they were changed lol, but I don't know if it's.necessary.

Her backdash makes me want to punch children, but I think it's part of her design and should remain.

 

[Vengeance135]

If her b3 keeps it's low profiling, it needs to be more negative.

J2 is still too much. I think she should have to be semi-close to get anything to combo - but perhaps make it cause extended hit stun towards tips ranges allowing her to use it's outer ranges to gain pressure but not confirm for a combo. Right now if it hits at Max range you can't confirm into a combo I think, I'd just like to see the "deadzone" there increased. Again, buff the deadzone though to allow her pressure, just not 40% of my life.

Some scaling on meterless damage. Part of what makes her so insane is that she can touch you in SO many ways and any touch from a sharp player is huge damage. Just a string into whip or something similar is actually very high damage, she hits like a truck everywhere on the screen regardless of resources.

Her 1f1 and such have been brought up, and they are super strong but the only time I FEAR them is in the corner and if I'm.in the corner that's my fault, one way or another. I certainly wouldn't mind if they were changed lol, but I don't know if it's.necessary.

Her backdash makes me want to punch children, but I think it's part of her design and should remain.

This post made me laugh lmao I agree with the b3 being more negative. I block a b3 and go to punish only to get hit with a mb b3 immediately after... like what? Or she can just backdash away. For a move so strong with low profile abilities and a big ass invisible hitbox, there should be an actual risk using it.

Her cat dash needs to be actually negative everywhere. It shouldn't be a guess on rather I can punish it or not.

I kind of agree with you on the j2 but I'm not sure it should get a major adjustment. That might decimate the character. If they adjusted the j2, they should either ark the whip downward more so she has to be closer to jail you or make the j2 have a gap between a blocked j2 and her follow up that way the opponent has a chance to challenge her and not get jailed into her godlike bs.

 

[TamedLizard]

Her cat dash needs to be actually negative everywhere. It shouldn't be a guess on rather I can punish it or not.

Joker can punish regardless. If it's full screen mb cat dash (-8), you can get D1~DB3 punish back into zoning and space control with teeth, or just take your +15 off D1. Anywhere else though and his 11~low canister punishes easily.

 

[Vengeance135]

Joker can punish regardless. If it's full screen mb cat dash (-8), you can get D1~DB3 punish back into zoning and space control with teeth, or just take your +15 off D1. Anywhere else though and his 11~low canister punishes easily.

Interesting, I'll have to lab it again. Are you sure it's still consistently punishable full screen? I played a super lengthy set two days ago against a buddy of mine and every time I blocked a cat dash full screen he could crouch block, backdash, neutral jump or if he knew I was going for 11 he would d1 cat dash. When I did hit him it registered as a reversal and not a punish, which meant he was clicking something. I have no problem punishing cat dash at close range but couldn't punish it at a lengthy range.

Are you on ps4 by chance?

 

[Vengeance135]

Joker can punish regardless. If it's full screen mb cat dash (-8), you can get D1~DB3 punish back into zoning and space control with teeth, or just take your +15 off D1. Anywhere else though and his 11~low canister punishes easily.

I'm in the lab right now and it's not registering as a punish.

D1 is the only thing punishing but I can backdash before the d1 hit after the cat dash at this range

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I think we're looking at the wrong thing here. I don't want a tool nerfed. Reduce her damage output across the board by about 15% or so and she's fixed.

 

[Rex24]

If her b3 keeps it's low profiling, it needs to be more negative.

J2 is still too much. I think she should have to be semi-close to get anything to combo - but perhaps make it cause extended hit stun towards tips ranges allowing her to use it's outer ranges to gain pressure but not confirm for a combo. Right now if it hits at Max range you can't confirm into a combo I think, I'd just like to see the "deadzone" there increased. Again, buff the deadzone though to allow her pressure, just not 40% of my life.

Some scaling on meterless damage. Part of what makes her so insane is that she can touch you in SO many ways and any touch from a sharp player is huge damage. Just a string into whip or something similar is actually very high damage, she hits like a truck everywhere on the screen regardless of resources.

Her 1f1 and such have been brought up, and they are super strong but the only time I FEAR them is in the corner and if I'm.in the corner that's my fault, one way or another. I certainly wouldn't mind if they were changed lol, but I don't know if it's.necessary.

Her backdash makes me want to punch children, but I think it's part of her design and should remain.

J2 does not guarantee anything you can backdash, and tbh I don’t think it’s going to change , whip is part of her character design , it already doesn’t jail into anything , it’s arc was changed in a previous patch. It is annoying, but I don’t think they will change it