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Sub Zero Issues

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Mustard posted my views on the sub zero thread about this.

Sektor doesn't suck, you just made some really bad decisions here.

Don't wanna seem like an ass, i love you man (no homo) but this is a "player not the character" thing.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Mustard posted my views on the sub zero thread about this.

Sektor doesn't suck, you just made some really bad decisions here.

Don't wanna seem like an ass, i love you man (no homo) but this is a "player not the character" thing.
The title was a joke.

Thank you for your opinions in the other thread. We'll see how the adjustments work out.
 

JavierDavila

ALWAYS an uphill battle...
Awesome, thanks ! Im having a hell of a time trying to connect the 224 after the 4 , my timing sucks!
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Sektor needs to pressure with d4 the same way sub does. His d4 has more range than subs and can play offensively instead of defensively. D4 into front up missle is great!
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Sektor needs to pressure with d4 the same way sub does. His d4 has more range than subs and can play offensively instead of defensively. D4 into front up missle is great!
what is the frame data on that? is there enough advantage for Sub to not simply just slide him after hit stun? I'm asking because i have no idea.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Sub can slide...but usually sub will walk in for 22 or block string pressure. When this happens he will eat the missle and give sektor the chance for a combo or a block string...even a throw.

I use this for footsies with him. I won't do it unles it hits at max range however.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Once he is expecting the up missle he will either back up or stand block... that gives sektor the chance to land b1, or f2, or even b34 without even needing to do the missle. He can change the up missle to reg or backwards of sub does clone...it's great zoning and footsies
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I get killed 100% of the time if I do a poke into up missile. These guys know all to well what to do when they see an up missile or homing missile. Sub Zero will just slide on a normal missile and homing missile (then block the homing missile sometimes).

There's no reason to ever respect the up missile trap if you have a fast advancing special move. So up missiles after pokes are 100% useless against: Kabal, Reptile, Sub Zero, Nightwolf, Cage, Skarlet, and even Kenshi, Sonya, Raiden, and Kung Lao can fuck this up.

This works wonders with people who don't know what to do against it, but will result in awful situations for Sektor if they do.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Then don't do up missle...but d4 is essential to sektors gameplay
I'm not so sure about that. It doesn't lower his hit box any and has the same range as d3. That said on block d4 into flame is safe against a large majority of the cast while d3-flame is not.

Also why d4 when you can b3 which has more range, is just as fast and could go into a combo or stagger into another string?
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I'm sorta agreeing with STH here. If i block Sektor's d4... i KNOW I can get another one in retaliation and then try some type of string. If he does b3... especially at max range... I have to respect the entire string...
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
I use b3 alSo but d4 for all characters on stand hit gives the character enough time to dash in for a combo b3 doesn't give you that time even if it hits. Bottom line is that d4 gives you more advantage on hit than b3. I'm right on this. You guys arent using all his tools for footsies

Go in practice mode and try it. D4 let's you dash in for free 12b1. B3 is Not doable consistently and against small hurt box characters impossible.

Edit...and d4 has lots more range than d3. Not sure why you said this?
Also it lowers his hitbox below high attacks so I'm not sure why you said this also? B3 he is standing and d4 he is ducking
 

Dann

Noob
stop backing up so much and Get out of the corner! when he gets really close check him with sektor's 6 frame jab and down poke like in 4:13 . You use the flame thrower as if it was kenshi's spirit charge. you should use the homing missile to close the distance or combo set ups. I didn't understand the purpose of them the few times you threw them out. You should work on moving in and out with sektor. Your game relies to heavily and zoning and spacing. is not necessarily a bad thing but you should get more comfortable with sector up close.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I use b3 alSo but d4 for all characters on stand hit gives the character enough time to dash in for a combo b3 doesn't give you that time even if it hits. Bottom line is that d4 gives you more advantage on hit than b3. I'm right on this. You guys arent using all his tools for footsies

Go in practice mode and try it. D4 let's you dash in for free 12b1. B3 is Not doable consistently and against small hurt box characters impossible.

Edit...and d4 has lots more range than d3. Not sure why you said this?
Also it lowers his hitbox below high attacks so I'm not sure why you said this also? B3 he is standing and d4 he is ducking
I figured you were going to mention about after a hit d4 you can go in for a 12b1. 12 whiffs on characters who have anything smaller than a high hit box. So lets say if I d4 and go in for a 12, just block low and you can actually get a full combo punish while the 12 is whiffing. 12 is only worth doing when the opponent is jailed or when unexpected. Obviously if you know the player doesn't know about it whiffing or has a high hit box - I would recommend to abuse the shit out of it. All my training buddies know everything there concerning fighting against Sektor, so I don't get away with much anymore.

d4 has a lower hit box than b3, absolutely. What I should have better illustrated is how other d4's in the game lower the hit box even further (like Sonya). Sektor's d4 and his normal ducking hitbox are around the same if not the very same. b3 can also be used for anti-air purposes if you prefer it over a standing 1 or d1 which sometimes I do.

b34 whiffs if not done at the perfect position on small hit box characters (and whiffs no matter where on Mileena). However the perfect spot can be found after someone blocks a b3 and you then stagger and do a b34. If they try to interrupt the b34 the 4 will hit. Another perfect spot is after the opponent has blocked a jip and the stance into overhead.

---

Dann : I believe looking back on this match up the best piece of advice given to me was how Sub's starting stings whiff on low hit box characters. You stated the obvious in get out of the corner - but didn't really mention ways on how to. The best way I have figured out is to EXTU and d1 afterwords. Since the only thing Sub can do to punish this is another d1, it's not a big deal if he does. Otherwize he gets a free throw if I block and I'm back in the corner.

As I stated in the post above, homing missiles are rather useless against players who arn't retarded. A lot of characters can punish you while the missile is coming out and still have time to block the missile on return. Sub Zero can slide, knock you down and still block the missile. You gain no pressure and lose a bar. The only times to do a homing missile is after a block string, and then it's still risky.

I think homing missile can be a great tool, I have yet to find a perfect application of it however.

---

Be careful on giving harmful advice everyone. Over the last few weeks I started to question my play style since I was being told that I play Sektor wrong by a lot of people. I've tried a lot of different things out and most of them have proven unsuccessful. While I appreciate all kinds of tips and advice, some have actually lowered the quality of my Sektor. Since taking the few quality tips from Brady, Ketchup, Ikizzile, ect. and applying them to my previous play style, I'm back on track. But for a while there I was in quite the rut from mal suggestions.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Immediate problem I saw...you're not maintaining position at midscreen. Obviously, vs Sub this means you have to risk running into clone. But you gotta hold your ground. Sub walking you to the corner = you didn't hold your ground.

FUNDAMENTALS IS THE NAME OF THE GAME! :)
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Immediate problem I saw...you're not maintaining position at midscreen. Obviously, vs Sub this means you have to risk running into clone. But you gotta hold your ground. Sub walking you to the corner = you didn't hold your ground.

FUNDAMENTALS IS THE NAME OF THE GAME! :)
I agree completely. Regardless most likely in a set like this it's going to go to the corner sooner or later; and until after posting this in the Sub Zero forum, I had no solutions on how to get out. So if I was in the corner in round 1, I started in the corner round 2.

I think I respected the ice clone a bit too much. Once he backs away too much or is on the other side closer to me I can jump over no problem.

Not as worried about the match up next time I see an aggressive Sub Zero. Out of all my hard match ups I've crossed off:

rush down Sub Zero
Kabal
Mileena

Only one left is Smoke.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
d4 has its uses for defensive spacing and to bypass high projectiles inside jump distance where you can't IaTu.

Simply think if someone like Sonya tries a Ring from jump distance , you can't IaTu on reaction , you can't jump on reaction but you can dash into a d4 and get the frame advantage , now when you go on hit with d4 your offensive followup depends at what distance you are left.

Max range d4 doesn't have guaranteed followups other than linking a flamethrower wich is often unpunishable by characters that don't have fast advancing special , however you can start the guessing game and it's in your favour , f2 catches jumps ( wich can turn into combos ) , dash b3 / b34 ( can be jumped if they commit to it tho ) , b1 , dash 1 to check them , remember to mix this up a lot and you may even sneak in with a throw.

Close range d4 has many guaranteed followups , dash 122 , b34 , f2 and when you conditioned them enough you can throw or even u34.

Now it's clear that you won't always go on hit with d4 while spacing so you gotta be aware of the guessing game after a blocked d4 , you're at even frames and you have some pushback so if you jump back he can't d4 , 21 , 22 because you're out of range and he has to dash in to make them connect so he's left with reading your backjump and slide it , if you do d3 and he dashes in you will outspeed d4 / d3 / 21 / 22 and get frame advantage ( +2 on 21 / 22 and +8/9 on d4 / d3 ) to start your offensive , also if you read a dash in 21 / 22 after a blocked d4 you could 12b1 and hitconfirm into a combo ( this is purely a guess but at the same time sub can't do much other than d4 / d3 again or try to space his 22 to make your 12 /11 whiff ).

After a blocked EX Tu against Sub Zero you can limit his options with a lowpoke , STH you say d1 is good after it but d3 has a better guessing game if it hits , first off doing d1 after EX Tu will not outspeed d4 / d3 and they can crossjump you to continue pressure , now since d1 ( as every lowpoke ) lowers Sektors hurtbox it will go under 21 / 22 / throw , but the thing about d1 is that even on hit is -7 so you can't get your offence started at best you can go back to your spacing game , d3 on the other hand leaves you at advantage while going under everything d1 does , also d3 on block is -8 but has very little blockstun so you may take advantage off the opponent not reacting fast enough and go back to your spacing ( and don't forget the 6 frame launcher ) , tl:dr sub hasn't got any fast special mid to close your options and combo off it after a blocked EX Tu.

And as everyone says stay patient when you're in the corner and make him sweat getting you there , midscreen sektor wins over sub.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
@STH

Take your own advice...abuse the shit out of it! We are talking about subzero aren't we? He has a big hitbox.

And I'm pretty sure he was pressuring with 12...is 1 a high? You should be able to poke him out...I'm not sure
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
@STH

Take your own advice...abuse the shit out of it! We are talking about subzero aren't we? He has a big hitbox.

And I'm pretty sure he was pressuring with 12...is 1 a high? You should be able to poke him out...I'm not sure
2,1 and yes... the 2 whiffs so you can poke for free... or uppercut... or stand up and do a 45% BnB.... whatever you choose really.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
2,1 and yes... the 2 whiffs so you can poke for free... or uppercut... or stand up and do a 45% BnB.... whatever you choose really.
If that's the case then you are that is why y ou lost...he pressured with that all day and yu did nothing but block it. You never poked out once
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Isn't it completely retarded that Sub-Zero can't even hit the characters he has to play aggressively against?

Oh, if not for the love of the character lmao.