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Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

Train

Mortal
@Tom Brady I have problem with this combo:
Enhanced Frost Bomb > Back + 2 > Down + 1 > Back + 1,2 ~ Ice Clone > Neutral Jump 1 or 2 > Neutral Jump 3 or 4 – 32%

I can't get my target cloned... for some reason Ice clone just won't come out... even tho I can see Ice clone animation from my sub (I am sure that I did all inputs right). Sometimes I do get clone out, but that's like 1 out of 5 times... What's the trick ?

Maybe I am doing clone way too close to the target ,and than clone instant shatter?
 

Odoyle

Drops combos
@Tom Brady I have problem with this combo:
Enhanced Frost Bomb > Back + 2 > Down + 1 > Back + 1,2 ~ Ice Clone > Neutral Jump 1 or 2 > Neutral Jump 3 or 4 – 32%

I can't get my target cloned... for some reason Ice clone just won't come out... even tho I can see Ice clone animation from my sub (I am sure that I did all inputs right). Sometimes I do get clone out, but that's like 1 out of 5 times... What's the trick ?

Maybe I am doing clone way too close to the target ,and than clone instant shatter?
I know this was for Tom but it's because the opponent is too high off of the ground when you're doing the clone. Tom would know better for sure but you either have to get your D1 or B1 out a hair later. It'll come eventually grinding it in the lab.

@Tom Brady I'm sorry if this hasn't been answered but I've been in the lab and I see the corner setup B2, B2, D1, B12 clone, NJ1/2, NJ 3/4 but is there any real downfall to doing Jump Forward + 2, Forward +1,2 at the end after the neutral jump punch? It does 4% more damage, says it has 4 more frames of hit advantage and does a hard knockdown unless my eyes deceive me. If you take even just the slightest step back you're able to get the clone out with no problems. Is the stepback too many frames to keep the clone safe? I'm practicing against characters wakeups with good success but would like to know what you think man. Any time you can get back to me would be much appreciated. :)
 

onemic

Noob
@Tom Brady How is it even possible to hit confirm off a b33? the cancel window isnt large and the delay between the kicks is small, so you have to have immediately confirmed off the first hit.
 

Tom Brady

Champion
I know this was for Tom but it's because the opponent is too high off of the ground when you're doing the clone. Tom would know better for sure but you either have to get your D1 or B1 out a hair later. It'll come eventually grinding it in the lab.

@Tom Brady I'm sorry if this hasn't been answered but I've been in the lab and I see the corner setup B2, B2, D1, B12 clone, NJ1/2, NJ 3/4 but is there any real downfall to doing Jump Forward + 2, Forward +1,2 at the end after the neutral jump punch? It does 4% more damage, says it has 4 more frames of hit advantage and does a hard knockdown unless my eyes deceive me. If you take even just the slightest step back you're able to get the clone out with no problems. Is the stepback too many frames to keep the clone safe? I'm practicing against characters wakeups with good success but would like to know what you think man. Any time you can get back to me would be much appreciated. :)

The idea is to end the combo and have the clone in a place where the next set of B2's that hit do not put them into the clone. This way you dont lose any damage by now having to cut the combo short because the opponent was frozen prematurely.

@Tom Brady How is it even possible to hit confirm off a b33? the cancel window isnt large and the delay between the kicks is small, so you have to have immediately confirmed off the first hit.
Yes, you are able to hit confirm B+33 but its tough at first.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
What's the best combo mid screen if you freeze the opponent in mid air?
I also have the same question. I've seem Tom doing a 15% combo off this situation, which consists in neutral 1, jf1, f42~slide. I don't really know why he does this combo, unless its to make the opponent closer to the corner. A simple neutral1 + uppercut would do the exact same 15%.

But I'm wondering, what's the most damaging combo that is possible in this situation?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I also have the same question. I've seem Tom doing a 15% combo off this situation, which consists in neutral 1, jf1, f42~slide. I don't really know why he does this combo, unless its to make the opponent closer to the corner. A simple neutral1 + uppercut would do the exact same 15%.

But I'm wondering, what's the most damaging combo that is possible in this situation?
NJP 1 123 slide is the best wallcarry combo and at around 13-15%. Your go-to combo.
Noob question... Why cancel strings into ice clone when they r punishable? Only F+4 is safe.
Because some chars need meter, some don't. It's a mixup.

You shouldn't be taking those risks vs chars you want to lame out and rarely vs those you want to push towards the corner. Their damage tends to be better than yours and Sub is easily one of the best in the neutral game anyway.
 
I was also hoping to find some bad ass mid air combo on frozen opponent. I personally do njp, jip and slide. That hits for 16% and pushes far into corner.. I have a question though. I see that everybody is showing combos on AI in neutral stance. I tried to do the reset throw combo from one of the video clips on AI that was blocking in crouch and after the throw cancel attempt b33 doesn't connect and is blocked. Same thing goes for the jip 2, b1,2 iceball. It ends with iceball being blocked. I thought that when you set AI to block you can actually check if it is blockable or not. Just like it was in MK9. So can these strings be blocked normally ? Or is AI's blocking enhanced somehow??

And another thing. I have noticed that combos on neutral stance AI and crouching blocking AI have different timing. Can someone confirm it? I was practicing mid screen B2 int run cancel 123 slide on the AI in neutral stance and FINALLLy when I got it right each time several times in a row I was soo happy....then I set the AI into crouching blocking so I can actually use sub's only overhead on a valid target.....and it appeared that the body is being launched lower than when it's standing. Of course I don't have to say that I wasn't able to land this combo even once. Switched AI back to neutral stance again....worked like a charm. If this is the case then I don't really see value in combos which start with overhead done on neutral stance AI. It is waay too long and telegraphic. Will never work on live opponent. Please can someone confirm and explain my observations?
 
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Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I was also hoping to find some bad ass mid air combo on frozen opponent. I personally do njp, jip and slide. That hits for 16% and pushes far into corner.. I have a question though. I see that everybody is showing combos on AI in neutral stance. I tried to do the reset throw combo from one of the video clips on AI that was blocking in crouch and after the throw cancel attempt b33 doesn't connect and is blocked. Same thing goes for the jip 2, b1,2 iceball. It ends with iceball being blocked. I thought that when you set AI to block you can actually check if it is blockable or not. Just like it was in MK9. So can these strings be blocked normally ? Or is AI's blocking enhanced somehow??

And another thing. I have noticed that combos on neutral stance AI and crouching blocking AI have different timing. Can someone confirm it? I was practicing mid screen B2 int run cancel 123 slide on the AI in neutral stance and FINALLLy when I got it right each time several times in a row I was soo happy....then I set the AI into crouching blocking so I can actually use sub's only overhead on a valid target.....and it appeared that the body is being launched lower than when it's standing. Of course I don't have to say that I wasn't able to land this combo even once. Switched AI back to neutral stance again....worked like a charm. If this is the case then I don't really see value in combos which start with overhead done on neutral stance AI. It is waay too long and telegraphic. Will never work on live opponent. Please can someone confirm and explain my observations?
Auto block will block stuff that doesn't link.
 
Auto block will block stuff that doesn't link.
Yes I know but then it means that b1,2 into iceball doesn't link and I read everywhere how it is one of the only two strings that link into regular iceball. I couldn't land it mid screen with auto blocking. Does it mean that human opponent can also block it? I have seen all those great combos and many of them start with jip, b1,2, iceball.
 

Killey

Noob
Okay, so there's a universal option select going around where if you cancel certain attacks into EX moves using 1+2+3 instead of button+block the EX move will come out on hit only. An explanation of the option select can be found here.


So how does this apply to Sub-Zero? I believe Alioune discovered this first but if you do Forward+4, 2 and cancel into down, back+1+2+3 you'll get EX Ice Burst on hit but on block you'll get Ice Clone. We should all know by now that Forward+4, 2 xx Ice Clone is unsafe on block with certain EX moves so be aware of that.


I haven't done any testing with the OS yet so I'm not sure what other normals or attack strings that it works with.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Yes I know but then it means that b1,2 into iceball doesn't link and I read everywhere how it is one of the only two strings that link into regular iceball. I couldn't land it mid screen with auto blocking. Does it mean that human opponent can also block it? I have seen all those great combos and many of them start with jip, b1,2, iceball.
B12 into iceball always combos. Who were you doing this to?
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
There is also an OS with Ice Clone and Ice ball.... Alione was tweeting it as well.
Mostly off of f4 which is no a hit confirmable move.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
NJP 1 123 slide is the best wallcarry combo and at around 13-15%. Your go-to combo.

Because some chars need meter, some don't. It's a mixup.

You shouldn't be taking those risks vs chars you want to lame out and rarely vs those you want to push towards the corner. Their damage tends to be better than yours and Sub is easily one of the best in the neutral game anyway.
So how do I play vs them in the neutral? My problem is im playing too much like his MK9 version and I know it will get me blown up in the future. But i just dont know how to play footsies with him on his MKX version...
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So how do I play vs them in the neutral? My problem is im playing too much like his MK9 version and I know it will get me blown up in the future. But i just dont know how to play footsies with him on his MKX version...
Sub has amazing footsies with F4, D4, B2 and clone. Use those normals.

How you lay your clone depends on the matchup. Don't clone just because you can.

If you're asking how to play footsies in general, http://sonichurricane.com/
 

gamesun

Mortal
Hey how would you guys punish someone who fell for the clone midscreen? I can't seem to take advantage of the situation or I can't seem to produce a good amount of damage, any ideas?
 
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Jedah

Fallen God
The clone combo in the corner seems character specific. Is there a list of the character`s that it doesn`t work on?

It doesn`t seem to work on Cassie. I replace the ice clone with a Ex Freeze.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
NJP 1 123 slide is the best wallcarry combo and at around 13-15%. Your go-to combo.
Dude, thanks for the reply, but I just said what I want to know is the most damading one, not the best wallcarry one. I'll obviously be using the wallcarry most of the time, but in some cases, it's good to know the combo that does more damage to finish a round, for instance. Do you have any clue wich one would be higher than 15% or it's the max that is possible against a freezed air opponent? Thanks.
 
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Tom Brady

Champion
I also have the same question. I've seem Tom doing a 15% combo off this situation, which consists in neutral 1, jf1, f42~slide. I don't really know why he does this combo, unless its to make the opponent closer to the corner. A simple neutral1 + uppercut would do the exact same 15%.

But I'm wondering, what's the most damaging combo that is possible in this situation?
I do NJP, jump 2, run 1, B12~slide
 

Tom Brady

Champion
Noob question... Why cancel strings into ice clone when they r punishable? Only F+4 is safe.
  • There are a few characters that cannot punish strings into clone so you can use it on them.
  • Some need meter so you can use it when they dont have any.
  • Some punish it with out meter so those characters will kill you at any time lol.
Also.. on every character besides Cassie, Reptile and KL you can always block after the string to bait and punish their attempt to catch the clone cancel.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Dude, thanks for the reply, but I just said what I want to know is the most damading one, not the best wallcarry one. I'll obviously be using the wallcarry most of the time, but in some cases, it's good to know the combo in that situation that does more damage to finish a round, for instance. Do you have any clue wich one would be or 15% is the max that is possible against a freezed air opponent? Thanks.
I do NJP, jump 2, run 1, B12~slide
Just tested, NJP jump 2 run 123 slide does the exact same damage ( 16%) with about a jump distance more wallcarry.

Thanks for the idea.
 
I've been watching Tom stream and hoping to pick up alot of the nuances of his game.
I am pretty much a beginner considering how bad I was at mk9 but am desperate to get to be at least a competent player.
Please could someone give me toms basic corner and mid combos? I've seen his combo after clone a few posts up.
I would really appreciate it! I'm in training until I have mastered at least these combos!
Also do I just use d4 and b2 to poke?
Thanks all!