Guide - Cryomancer Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER Guide

[RM Ree]

I personally don't think you should ever hammer instead of ice ball as far as starters.

There's an argument to be made that you should ice ball instead of EX hammer when the opponent has 2 or more bars. Always try and bait the breaker out so you're not losing bars with such a meter heavy character. They're not going to let you just kill them after all, so why not sacrifice a few % in the hopes you'll get the breaker first and full damage later on. Seems efficient.

As far ending with slide, I think you should change your outlook and I hope I can convince you.
- Ending in cold blooded means they have no reversal window and have to rely on execution to counter your follow up, not a big deal but it's something slide ender doesn't have.
- d4 has great speed and range that works very well after the standing neutral (d4 hit> run> b12 is a frame trap too).
- Cold blooded also keeps the pace of the match high, where Cryo needs to be IMO.
- The damage, man. Unbreakable, high output in short combos, and threatening conversions after. You can look at some of my older posts via profile for max damage bnb's. They should all be posted somewhere in this thread, or you can PM me and I'll send them there.

 

[InFlames]

I personally don't think you should ever hammer instead of ice ball as far as starters.

There's an argument to be made that you should ice ball instead of EX hammer when the opponent has 2 or more bars. Always try and bait the breaker out so you're not losing bars with such a meter heavy character. They're not going to let you just kill them after all, so why not sacrifice a few % in the hopes you'll get the breaker first and full damage later on. Seems efficient.

As far ending with slide, I think you should change your outlook and I hope I can convince you.
- Ending in cold blooded means they have no reversal window and have to rely on execution to counter your follow up, not a big deal but it's something slide ender doesn't have.
- d4 has great speed and range that works very well after the standing neutral (d4 hit> run> b12 is a frame trap too).
- Cold blooded also keeps the pace of the match high, where Cryo needs to be IMO.
- The damage, man. Unbreakable, high output in short combos, and threatening conversions after. You can look at some of my older posts via profile for max damage bnb's. They should all be posted somewhere in this thread, or you can PM me and I'll send them there.

I feel the restand gives my opponent too many options to escape pressure. I have to predict whether they will poke, jump out, backdash, use armor, etc. Where as off a knockdown their only option is to wake-up, delay wake-up, or just get up. Unless NRS decides to buff the restand like they did Shinnok I don't see myself using it as a regular combo ender.

 

[GamefanA]

Started using Cryomancer seriously, what BnB's are you guys using? The combos I've been using are:

StarterxxIce Ball, j2 f122, 242, run f42xxSlide for midscreen

Starterxxice ball, j2 b2, b2, 242, 123xxSlide in the corner

These seem to be the most damaging slide enders I could find, which I personally prefer using over the restand. By the way I'm seeing people say normal ice hammer is useless since it can't be comboed into from his usual strings, but why combo into Ice Hammer instead of Ice ball? Legit question, I'm seriously wondering. As for EX Hammer I started using it to OS off of B33 instead of EX Iceball since hammer does way more damage.

Simple, for mix up value if ice hammer was faster, one could rush down the opponent with the 50/50 off of lets say b33. Where he doesn't know if your gonna use an OH or a low. But since its so freaking slow, this option does not exist for sub zero. But is totally there for many other chars such as, jax, mellina, kotal Kahn... Etc

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I feel the restand gives my opponent too many options to escape pressure. I have to predict whether they will poke, jump out, backdash, use armor, etc. Where as off a knockdown their only option is to wake-up, delay wake-up, or just get up. Unless NRS decides to buff the restand like they did Shinnok I don't see myself using it as a regular combo ender.

Then why the hell are you playing this variation :| Ice Clone will get you in for more punishes than Hammer ever will, and has much nicer corner game and tempo


I'm sorry but playing Cryomancer and avoiding the reset is one of the worst ways to play the character. That reset is basically the only reason to play this variation.

No, you don't get to keep tempo at the end of every combo connect. You have to go back and play the neutrals game. Luckily, you have the best backdash in the game after that neutral reset, and you are just in range of D4, as well as B2, and you have a Hammer to go through all single hitting armor and launch into combo.

If you want to keep tempo up, Grandmaster is your variation. Cryo isn't built for that shit

 

[InFlames]

Then why the hell are you playing this variation :| Ice Clone will get you in for more punishes than Hammer ever will, and has much nicer corner game and tempo


I'm sorry but playing Cryomancer and avoiding the reset is one of the worst ways to play the character. That reset is basically the only reason to play this variation.

No, you don't get to keep tempo at the end of every combo connect. You have to go back and play the neutrals game. Luckily, you have the best backdash in the game after that neutral reset, and you are just in range of D4, as well as B2, and you have a Hammer to go through all single hitting armor and launch into combo.

If you want to keep tempo up, Grandmaster is your variation. Cryo isn't built for that shit

That's like saying why use pre-patch Boneshaper without using the restand, because it's a garbage restand. You're losing oki and corner carry for an extra 4%, just to go back to the neutral where you have to open them up again.

 

[GamefanA]

Then why the hell are you playing this variation :| Ice Clone will get you in for more punishes than Hammer ever will, and has much nicer corner game and tempo


I'm sorry but playing Cryomancer and avoiding the reset is one of the worst ways to play the character. That reset is basically the only reason to play this variation.

No, you don't get to keep tempo at the end of every combo connect. You have to go back and play the neutrals game. Luckily, you have the best backdash in the game after that neutral reset, and you are just in range of D4, as well as B2, and you have a Hammer to go through all single hitting armor and launch into combo.

If you want to keep tempo up, Grandmaster is your variation. Cryo isn't built for that shit

I'm sorry but saying that the solution is to switch variation is stupid. The devs themselves said that Cryo is a aggressive rushdown based character, and for them to make this rushdown char have to fight to win the neutral game after every combo is just pretty much doing the opposite of what this variation is all about

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'm sorry but saying that the solution is to switch variation is stupid. The devs themselves said that Cryo is a aggressive rushdown based character, and for them to make this rushdown char have to fight to win the neutral game after every combo is just pretty much doing the opposite of what this variation is supposed to do

Huh? I agree, the devs got it wrong, he's not rushdown at all because of the reset. That's why I prefer to play the character the way he IS rather than the way the Dev's say he SHOULD play but quite clearly doesnt. You can stick to this variation all you want, it doesn't change that the only other thing he has than the neutral reset is the Hammer. What other solution do you propose here?

That's like saying why use pre-patch Boneshaper without using the restand, because it's a garbage restand. You're losing oki and corner carry for an extra 4%, just to go back to the neutral where you have to open them up again.

I have no idea what Boneshaper was like before the patch. I'm just saying, using the reset is the only reason to play Cryomancer, and he is equipped with enough tools to do so. Can give you give me another reason to play this variation over GM? If you are going to be using all GM's strings, I feel like the Clone, the Shatter and the Clone toss are MASSIVELY better tools for damage, tempo and footsies than having a slow armored reactable Overhead launcher that costs a meter to use. The best thing about this variation is the reset. Whether or not that makes it a good variation or whether it needs buffs is another matter. Working with what we have, there is no point in ending combo's in slide if you want to Cryomance

 

[GamefanA]

Huh? I agree, the devs got it wrong, he's not rushdown at all because of the reset. That's why I prefer to play the character the way he IS rather than the way the Dev's say he SHOULD play but quite clearly doesnt. You can stick to this variation all you want, it doesn't change that the only other thing he has than the neutral reset is the Hammer. What other solution do you propose here?


I have no idea what Boneshaper was like before the patch. I'm just saying, using the reset is the only reason to play Cryomancer, and he is equipped with enough tools to do so. Can give you give me another reason to play this variation over GM? If you are going to be using all GM's strings, I feel like the Clone, the Shatter and the Clone toss are MASSIVELY better tools for damage, tempo and footsies than having a slow armored reactable Overhead launcher that costs a meter to use. The best thing about this variation is the reset. Whether or not that makes it a good variation or whether it needs buffs is another matter. Working with what we have, there is no point in ending combo's in slide if you want to Cryomance

As i said the character in its current state is not functioning right and should be fixed by making sub zero plus after the restand, making his hammer faster and possibly make his normals actually worth something

 

[I GOT HANDS]

As i said the character in its current state is not functioning right and should be fixed by making sub zero plus after the restand, making his hammer faster and possibly make his normals actually worth something

He definitely needs something. For now however, the best way to play him is use the reset, get the damage or pick a different variation.

I'm in the category of people who think the reset is fine, it gives him a good opportunity to get in, addin plus frames is won't necessarily help and too much will break the character. I think he just needs better nuetral tools, like Ninjutsu has, Cryo has fuck all worthwhile character strings.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

You don't understand how shit his restand is. A neutral restand is worthless and at best sub zero can do without getting blown up is D4. If he tries anything else he literally dies.

I rather deal with a wake up with me at advantage than me being neutral and getting blown the fuck up by an armor launcher or a better poke.

He definitely needs something. For now however, the best way to play him is use the reset, get the damage or pick a different variation.

I'm in the category of people who think the reset is fine, it gives him a good opportunity to get in, addin plus frames is won't necessarily help and too much will break the character. I think he just needs better nuetral tools, like Ninjutsu has, Cryo has fuck all worthwhile character strings.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You don't understand how shit his restand is. A neutral restand is worthless and at best sub zero can do without getting blown up is D4. If he tries anything else he literally dies.

I rather deal with a wake up with me at advantage than me being neutral and getting blown the fuck up by an armor launcher or a better poke.

I've sunk a shitload of time into this variation, one thing I won't hear is that I "don't understand it". You and I may have different views on this, but I'm not just some random saying "stop whinging about the reset", thats just the easy way to change him into a generic 50/50 rushdown character.

He has one of the best D4's in the game which is going to beat most other pokes considering jabs are out of range. He has the Hammer which beats nearly all armored launchers after the restand. As far as other options go, he also has B2, an excellent backdash, and one of the best uppercuts, to deal with Jump-ins. Yeah, you might have to give up tempo with the standing reset. This is the unique string character, and if they gave him some better footsies like Ninjutsu got, he would be much more fun.

The opposite is standing reset with plus frames, meaning they block since SZ has nothing that's plus and his one opener at that range is B2, you either get a D4 or nothing. Or we can give him enough plus frames to get in range for his low starter, making him completely broken as a 50/50 character that gives no wake up opportunity and simply threatens another 50/50 for free at the end of each combo. Leave his reset as is, the nuetral game is like his only opportunity to get him, just give him better tools for it.


Regardless, I didn't post here to argue what he NEEDS. With what he currently HAS, there is no point to playing him if you are going to end your combos in Slide. That's pretty straight forward.

 

[RM Ree]

I think this variation is entirely about his restand, and it's soley because of the damage. He's supposed to kill in 3 combos regardless of position or meter, which is one thing Cryo does better than GM.

If you're not using cold blooded to end combos, you are wrong. End of story.

Post restand, you can wait and punish, anti air with d2, poke with d4 (on hit, great frame trap meta), whiff punish to crushing hammer with the range of 12, or move in for your 50/50 once they respect your mid range neutral pressure. The worst we get is a long range neutral, and there's not a character in the game who can keep us out.

Think of the restand in the same manner that you would the start of every match. If you often get that first hit meter bonus, use whatever you're doing there after the restand and adjust to you comfort level.

 

[matmusada]

I think this variation is entirely about his restand, and it's soley because of the damage. He's supposed to kill in 3 combos regardless of position or meter, which is one thing Cryo does better than GM.

If you're not using cold blooded to end combos, you are wrong. End of story.

Post re-stand, you can wait and punish, anti air with d2, poke with d4 (on hit, great frame trap meta), whiff punish to crushing hammer with the range of 12, or move in for your 50/50 once they respect your mid range neutral pressure. The worst we get is a long range neutral, and there's not a character in the game who can keep us out.

Think of the re-stand in the same manner that you would the start of every match. If you often get that first hit meter bonus, use whatever you're doing there after the re-stand and adjust to you comfort level.

I've come to that same conclusion as well. I won't say who's method of variation usage is right or wrong as it's all a matter of opinion to me. I myself prefer to to make use of Cold-Blooded as much as possible. Anything that I've tried to do outside of that has just resulted in less damage which the antithesis to Cryomancer in my humble opinion. Outside of suggested buffs and etc. I feel that the main strength of this variation is it's ability to do what I feel is burst damage more or less that it doesn't rely on the corner as heavily as GM.
Even without meter and freezing an opponent one can still net a respectable 29% damage which isn't too shabby in my book and just requires a simple run cancel. Now as far as options go after the re-stand I believe that's when knowledge of the neutral game comes into play such as guessing games, reads, and /or thoroughly analyzing options((whatever you want to call it)).
If anything I actually like the re-set as it feels like a fair version of the various 50/50's that are so prevalent in this game and while it gives your opponent a chance to escape I feel that's the point. That such a situation keeps both players on their toes and makes the match more exciting in that you have to be constantly aware of the options available to both themselves and the opponent.
I'll avoid saying what I feel that this variation needs because trust me when I say that I've voiced that enough. Instead I'll say that I've found myself constantly coming back to this variation despite GM having more utility because I like how much more straight-forward that Cryo is. Simple as that.

 

[kencheese]

I've come to that same conclusion as well. I won't say who's method of variation usage is right or wrong as it's all a matter of opinion to me. I myself prefer to to make use of Cold-Blooded as much as possible. Anything that I've tried to do outside of that has just resulted in less damage which the antithesis to Cryomancer in my humble opinion. Outside of suggested buffs and etc. I feel that the main strength of this variation is it's ability to do what I feel is burst damage more or less that it doesn't rely on the corner as heavily as GM.
Even without meter and freezing an opponent one can still net a respectable 29% damage which isn't too shabby in my book and just requires a simple run cancel. Now as far as options go after the re-stand I believe that's when knowledge of the neutral game comes into play such as guessing games, reads, and /or thoroughly analyzing options((whatever you want to call it)).
If anything I actually like the re-set as it feels like a fair version of the various 50/50's that are so prevalent in this game and while it gives your opponent a chance to escape I feel that's the point. That such a situation keeps both players on their toes and makes the match more exciting in that you have to be constantly aware of the options available to both themselves and the opponent.
I'll avoid saying what I feel that this variation needs because trust me when I say that I've voiced that enough. Instead I'll say that I've found myself constantly coming back to this variation despite GM having more utility because I like how much more straight-forward that Cryo is. Simple as that.

Nice post, i amnew to mkx, love sz Cryo, really getting into his frame data, my only issue is sometimese i have a hard time doing bf4 , and I get b4f becAuse I get anxious, when I get it right I play great, any adivse to technically help me with this, I have even used a counting mech 1 b, 2 f and then hit 4 , if I do this I hit the slide but I lose some frame time and susceptible to being blocked and punished, any advise

 

[Derwood1979]

Nice post, aim new to mkx, love sz Cryo, really getting into his frame data, my only issue is sometimese i have a hard time doing bf4 , and I get b4f becAuse I get anxious, when I get it right I play great, any adivse to technically help me with this, I have even used a counting mech 1 b, 2 f and then hit 4 , if I do this I hit the slide but I lose some frame time and susceptible to being blocked and punished, any advise

You said youre new, my advice is more practice and it will come more naturally.

 

[kencheese]

You said youre new, my advice is more practice and it will come more naturally.[/QUO

You said youre new, my advice is more practice and it will come more naturally.

thats what aim doing, and not just on a AI stand still dummie, I practice on custom hard, I also go into practice options and start from the right side so as not to get lop side in comfort and button pushing, I also set up a guest account to play on hard and very hard to increase my reflex response , tech blocking, wake ups and safe reversals, have learned on hard what safe moves really mean, how to apply hit confirm and only kombo into a special move if I have hit confirm, and now not getting punished as much, I play on medium and really enjoy it, but I have a 900/12 record and want to advance to hard, I can put up a fairly good fight, but I know my weaknesses, and I NEED to really improve on the slide. One thing I have learned that On hard I am jabbing, block, jabbing ,blocking and learning to find the openings, so as to cancel the basic or basic kombo into a spec move, hard mode requires much more patience and proper blocking and knowing the proper tech blocking of your opponents, but aim I this for the long term and want to take as much time as needed, months to years to become really good, thanks for the reply

 

[Gangsta Crizzab]

Using Cryo without the f+4,2,1+3 to finish combos is retarded. Killer reads, dat damage and restand into neutral IS Cryo.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

I'm not going through 13 pages, so I'll just ask. Is the corner AirHammer restand known? It leaves you at about -3, but it's super tricky.

 

[RM Ree]

Corner air hammer restand? No, what is that??

 

[ZeZe]

Corner air hammer restand? No, what is that??

@StealthyMuffin Page 4 of this tread : http://testyourmight.com/threads/sub-zero-cryomancer-guide.49880/page-4

 

[RM Ree]

Ty @ZeZe

This looks awful lol Does it have a place in the meta?

 

[ZeZe]

Ty @ZeZe

This looks awful lol Does it have a place in the meta?

When everybody forgets Cryo Sub has that move (won't be long), you could use it as a surprise factor one time per match.

 

[RM Ree]

Lol on the note of the air hammer, when you jump and whiff an aerial, you can still get the hammer out after the recovery of the jump punch/ kick. Think Mileena doing jik, telekick on whiff.

Pretty good when the opponent has next to no health and you need to chip out a match after the OG standing reset. I always just instant jik, air hammer and the triple OH chip/ jik xx air hammer combo kills.

Also does anyone else think this think should be a low ground pound like Ermac's floating face dive? Maybe even an unblockable?

 

[Lokheit]

The air hammer restand leaves you at -7 frames from my testing IIRC (you can easily replicate it with EX Hammer, NJP, JIP Air Hammer, it has perfect timing to replicate the conditions), so not something you want to use too much. The air hammer is pretty much useless right now, uppercuts will go through the hammer hitbox and destroy you as it's so obvious when it's comming. It's much better to just land on solid ground considering how easy it's to punish on block or whiff.

And yup, I think it should be a low ground pound, probably more in the lines of Jacquie's pound more than Ermac's as that could be too much. It would be awesome if it were low AND it gave advantage instead of knocking down to create a 50/50 situation. The restand tech is useless right now but could be used as inspiration for what to do with the air hammer. That or advantge on block like some pounds have, to let you charge head in.

Now the reason I came here to post, I think I got the most damage I've seen for 2 bars and I'm not sure if it has been posted yet, I don't remember seeing any video with this combo:

(corner) B12, EX Hammer, B2, B12, EXHammer, F42,1+3 = 46% Damage, 2 bars.

Really easy to pull, probably more players already know about this, but wanted to share just in case.

As a general rule I don't recommend using 2 bars on the same combo on a meter hungry variation like this one, but a good tool if you want to close the round and have 2 bars. Sorry if this was already known, didn't see it before.

 

[Cryo]

I'm still trying to find a justiable use for the enhanced throw, it seems like a waste of meter bars.