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Guide - Cryomancer Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER Guide

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I want 111 to be high high OH. Mix with 114 high high low for mix ups. On top of that... Maybe 114 makes the opponent stagger instead of knock down (similar to d4 hit), instead of a knock down. On top of THAT... Maybe, make 114 special cancelable. 111 xx hammer/ slide and 114 xx hammer/ slide mix ups on top of mix ups and I've gone cross eyed.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Has anyone done any real testing of cryo's d2 as an anti air? Seems like he is the only character with a d2 like it. Seems like the best in the game but I'm so use to relying on whiff punishing because aa's are so weak in this game I never seem to use it as much as I should
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
What kind of testing are you thinking about? I use his d2 as more of a preemptive thing, I'm hunting the jump in. When I connects though, you can get a slide or f42 1+3 in the corner.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Along the lines of , does a properly spaced properly time d2 beat out every properly spaced and timed ji attack
Can any jump in hit thru the disjointed hitbox of cryo's d2
 

InFlames

dead
Along the lines of , does a properly spaced properly time d2 beat out every properly spaced and timed ji attack
Can any jump in hit thru the disjointed hitbox of cryo's d2
when i used cryo i could anti air kotal and shinnoks j1s on reaction if spaced right
 

Lokheit

Noob
Some D2 have deceptively long ranges despite not using props and are faster. I can beat JIP with D2 with most of the characters I have experience with, not only Cryo.

The sword is slower so is more a preemptive thing that works well with the distance Cryo likes. The best thing about it IMO is that it's a mid and the pushback at long range.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
How many ppl bait armor on a hard knockdown with strings into ex hammer?
I think I remember ppl discussing it befor
I like to hammer hkd , run 12xxexhammer
A lot of time I jus chase them down with 12xxregular hammer , especially if their out of meter , running in usually waste enough time to whiff the 1 and have a low/overhead mix up with the 2xxhammer
 
d2 barely works for me, it never wants to come out in time to anti air :( so i just press 1 then go into coldblooded for my anti air which is harder to time
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
d2 barely works for me, it never wants to come out in time to anti air :( so i just press 1 then go into coldblooded for my anti air which is harder to time
Yeah it's pretty freakin' slow... I get some use out of it in the corner, just outside d4 range. Poking with that at max range, especially if the opponent blocks, makes people want to jump in. Something about the distance must be appealing, but it's reliable enough.

Anyway, "d2 anti-air > f42 1+3 xx ex hammer of great justice, f42 xx hammer of moderate justice" goes a long way for me. No one expects it to connect either. Real crowd pleaser.
 

Goat-City

Banned
I want 111 to be high high OH. Mix with 114 high high low for mix ups. On top of that... Maybe 114 makes the opponent stagger instead of knock down (similar to d4 hit), instead of a knock down. On top of THAT... Maybe, make 114 special cancelable. 111 xx hammer/ slide and 114 xx hammer/ slide mix ups on top of mix ups and I've gone cross eyed.
114 shouldn't be special cancelable because it would then be used as a fast punisher instead of 11 in Grandmaster. Grandmaster doesn't need more damage off a 7 frame punish and that's supposed to be Cryo's thing, so I don't like that idea. They could either just make it stagger like d4 for a free 50/50 like you said or make it a hard knockdown and make it more plus after a hit. 111 could be high, high, overhead, but if they just sped up the hammer by 6 frames like I think they should then it wouldn't really be necessary.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
114 shouldn't be special cancelable because it would then be used as a fast punisher instead of 11 in Grandmaster. Grandmaster doesn't need more damage off a 7 frame punish and that's supposed to be Cryo's thing, so I don't like that idea. They could either just make it stagger like d4 for a free 50/50 like you said or make it a hard knockdown and make it more plus after a hit. 111 could be high, high, overhead, but if they just sped up the hammer by 6 frames like I think they should then it wouldn't really be necessary.
I didn't think about the possible 114 punish as it would translate to GM, that's a great point. I admit, making that string special cancelable was more pipe dream than actual suggestion. Even more so now. I also used to think ex hammer time should be as fast as Kotal's OH Sword Smash so b3 > ex hammer and b33 ex hammer would both combo. You can imagine how ridiculous that would make him.

I do think the 114 stagger would be acceptable though, as unsafe as it is. As well as 111 being H, H, OH. I might even be willing to trade that for a damage nerf.
 

Lokheit

Noob
114 should at least be safe, lost turn but safe, considering that if you want an unsafe low you can do 11Slide anyway for more damage or just 12 for the same starter into a low.

SZ strings that could use some help (not neccesary, at least not all of them, but right now there is no point in using any of them):

- 112: 11 jails into regular burst anyway and Cryo can use 111 which is safe and cancelable. 112 to have any use on SZs gameplan should either be 0 or +1 on block, or have pushback (despite how "strong" the move looks in the animation, it keeps you at range of any poke in adition to being unsafe).

- 114: As previously mentioned.

- D1: Everything it does can be achieved with better results and at the same speed by SZs other pokes which are lows. It's used on GM to juggle a bit in the corner so at least this one sees some light, but technically you can replace it with 1 or D3 on those same juggles. I guess it wouldn't hurt if it was 1 or 2 frames faster so you're not eaten alive in poke battles.

- 3 and 4: It's not that they're bad moves (a bit slow though), it's that everything they can do can be done better by faster moves that are Mids instead of Highs, so there is very little point on using any of the standard kicks if you have better options for the same pourpose.

- B334: Like with 114, you can already cancel into a more damaging unsafe low with the slide, so making it -5/-6 would mean you have a reason to use it. I guess both strings are just "unsafe but not so suicidal", but someone that knows the matchup will punish them like they would punish a slide.

I guess upgrading all those strings might make the character too potent, but they're just not useful when you have better options to do the same.

Everything else has one use or another in SZs gameplan (Cryo won't use 242 because B2 into F4 is easy and more damaging for him, but that's a variation specific thing).
 
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Creepy00

Noob
I didn't think about the possible 114 punish as it would translate to GM, that's a great point. I admit, making that string special cancelable was more pipe dream than actual suggestion. Even more so now. I also used to think ex hammer time should be as fast as Kotal's OH Sword Smash so b3 > ex hammer and b33 ex hammer would both combo. You can imagine how ridiculous that would make him.

I do think the 114 stagger would be acceptable though, as unsafe as it is. As well as 111 being H, H, OH. I might even be willing to trade that for a damage nerf.
B33 ex hammer does already combo properly. I guess you meant about removing the gap between b3(3)~ex hammer and making it a true blockstring. But yeah, that would be a bit ridiculous.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Need help with other combos please!
http://testyourmight.com/threads/sub-zero-combo-thread-patch-8-31.55743/

We have a whole thread full of the best combos for just about any situation. As a rule of thumb, Cryo's better combos revolve around finding a place to put b2. For example, in your video you did "f42 1+3 xx MB crushing hammer, NJP, f42 1+3 xx hammer." A better version of that combo would just replace NJP with b2, and then running forward a bit to connect the cold-blooded string.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Yeah it's pretty freakin' slow... I get some use out of it in the corner, just outside d4 range. Poking with that at max range, especially if the opponent blocks, makes people want to jump in. Something about the distance must be appealing, but it's reliable enough.

Anyway, "d2 anti-air > f42 1+3 xx ex hammer of great justice, f42 xx hammer of moderate justice" goes a long way for me. No one expects it to connect either. Real crowd pleaser.
Does then connect midscreen or just in the corner?
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Anyone ever try using air hammer the way that others use disjointed njp? Like the way takedas will njp after a block string?
 

Adagost

yard's best Ice cream
I think this is common sense but I didn't see anyone using this before.

So, 111 seemed not very good. While practicing i noticed it jails with a good spaced jumpin, i like mixing it up with 12 just to see how my opponent deals with it, it opened me up some mixup potential after 1 or 11 (throw, low, overhead, backdash - get creative), or finish it, plenty of options from there. what do you guys think?
 
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I think this is common sense but I didn't see anyone using this before.

So, 114 and 111 seemed not very good. Until i noticed that 114 and 111 jail after a jumpin.

In my opinion this is crucial, cryo gains the ability to hitconfirm into a damaging iceball combo, cancel any hit of the string or just don't finish it. On top of it, 11 and 111 are -5 on block, so you still have some options like backdashing afterwards. I like it, the spacing is tricky but especially with rees corner j2 setup this works like a charm for me. What do you guys think about it?
I really like the 111 string, its also a great punish because you can connect a regular iceball after it. I only really use 112 in grandmaster