Guide - Cryomancer Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER Guide

[RM Ree]

Sorry guys, I should've been more clear. By d4/ f4 xx hammer, I meant d4 by itself or f4 xx hammer.

@ChaosTheory I believe f4 xx hammer is a true blockstring.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

it is, you can't interrupt it.

 

[Endeavor]

Does Cryo have and plus frames off of F4? Like in UNBRK,f4xxEX FA is +15. In GM f4xxEX Clone is +10. I haven't heard of Cryomancer having anything like that.

 

[I$AAC]

So I jumped on the cryo bandwagon and I love it. This is the most fun I've had playing sub ever! I'm going to make a quick vid soon of all his combos and possibilties.

 

[Lokheit]

Does Cryo have and plus frames off of F4? Like in UNBRK,f4xxEX FA is +15. In GM f4xxEX Clone is +10. I haven't heard of Cryomancer having anything like that.

The power of F4 is its cancel advantage (which I think is listed wrong in the ingame table), that's why the Hammer makes a true blockstring with it, but out cancellable moves can't be continued and none of them restand (well, I guess if you iceball into JIP into B12 it counts as plus frames for a 50/50).

 

[ChaosTheory]

I guess what I'm wondering is how your opponents are reacting to a string into Hammer. Are they blocking the string, recognizing the cancel, and crossing over for full punish consistently?

Or is there enough going on that there's hesitation and the just block? Or maybe just jab-counter?

 

[Endeavor]

I guess what I'm wondering is how your opponents are reacting to a string into Hammer. Are they blocking the string, recognizing the cancel, and crossing over for full punish consistently?

Or is there enough going on that there's hesitation and the just block? Or maybe just jab-counter?

For me I usually get jabbed out of it or the armor, or they cross over. I stopped using the hammer outside of combos. I guess I'll start using f4 hammer but honestly you better if using frost bomb imo. The spacing you get from f12xxFB is pretty good.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

hit confirmable and -10 but with pushback. hmmmm....will test
edit: but worth the meter just to make safe?

 

[RM Ree]

People do usually block the hammer. I don't see many people jumping out/ over and punishing consistently. Not yet anyway.

The thing about it though is you almost want them to try and punish the hammer. Say you b12 xx hammer, the opponent reversal armors through the gap. Throw b12 again, no hammer. If they try to punish again, their armored reversal comes out while you're safe and you punish. The f4 xx hammer calls these attempts out as well, for a good bit of damage if they bite. Cryo is a heavy punisher and you want to make a variety of these situations arise.

More than hammer gaps, I use f33 (blocked) ex crushing hammer for this type of thing. It's a common Unbreakable tactic that translates (f33> parry).

 

[xQUANTUMx]

People do usually block the hammer. I don't see many people jumping out/ over and punishing consistently. Not yet anyway.

The thing about it though is you almost want them to try and punish the hammer. Say you b12 xx hammer, the opponent reversal armors through the gap. Throw b12 again, no hammer. If they try to punish again, their armored reversal comes out while you're safe and you punish. The f4 xx hammer calls these attempts out as well, for a good bit of damage if they bite. Cryo is a heavy punisher and you want to make a variety of these situations arise.

More than hammer gaps, I use f33 (blocked) ex crushing hammer for this type of thing. It's a common Unbreakable tactic that translates (f33> parry).

yea, I catch pokes/button pressing after this often

 

[Matix218]

So what is the general consensus regarding the post iceball vortex midscreen? Do we want to be using f12 or b12? I have been using f12 corner or midscreen (obviously you have to do the low quickly before he is out of range).

Is that what I should be using? It has more advantage on hit than b12 right?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

If you decide to opt for this:
F12 in the corner since they can't get away from you
B12 midscreen.

not everyone likes to do this, but to each their own.

 

[RM Ree]

I thought f12 made it a true vortex, where b12 left an opening for armor if SZ tried the b2.

 

[ChaosTheory]

People do usually block the hammer. I don't see many people jumping out/ over and punishing consistently. Not yet anyway.

The thing about it though is you almost want them to try and punish the hammer. Say you b12 xx hammer, the opponent reversal armors through the gap. Throw b12 again, no hammer. If they try to punish again, their armored reversal comes out while you're safe and you punish. The f4 xx hammer calls these attempts out as well, for a good bit of damage if they bite. Cryo is a heavy punisher and you want to make a variety of these situations arise.

More than hammer gaps, I use f33 (blocked) ex crushing hammer for this type of thing. It's a common Unbreakable tactic that translates (f33> parry).

This is along the lines of what I was thinking and why I asked. If the opponent could sit and block, recognize the hammer, and cross over on reaction every time, then all this goes out the window...

Thinking out loud.... Basically I was wondering how effective the conditioning mind-game is with a string into Hammer. A string into Hammer is good chip and from what I can tell, at -9 with that push-back, looks pretty fucking hard to punish.

The hammer is obviously easy to interrupt with just a normal. And any string itself would be safe, but negative, so the opponent could still counter with their normal (string) and hit-confirm either way.

So what about conditioning that reaction and then making a read to blow it up with Enhanced Hammer (ex... 1,2 3,EH-Hammer)? Still safe, but you get something like 35%.

Is that scaring opponents enough to not press buttons and give the string into Hammer?

 

[Lokheit]

I thought f12 made it a true vortex, where b12 left an opening for armor if SZ tried the b2.

I was testing the other day B12 because heard some people got Cassie's 6 frames armor kick before their B2 and I didn't find a gap. Maybe if you hesitate there is a gap, but if you decide if you want OH or Low before the B12 there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I thought f12 made it a true vortex, where b12 left an opening for armor if SZ tried the b2.

It's tighter but they still cannot armor through. It is a true guess

edit: lol @Lokheit beat me to it

 

[Wintermute088]

This is along the lines of what I was thinking and why I asked. If the opponent could sit and block, recognize the hammer, and cross over on reaction every time, then all this goes out the window...

Thinking out loud.... Basically I was wondering how effective the conditioning mind-game is with a string into Hammer. A string into Hammer is good chip and from what I can tell, at -9 with that push-back, looks pretty fucking hard to punish.

The hammer is obviously easy to interrupt with just a normal. And any string itself would be safe, but negative, so the opponent could still counter with their normal (string) and hit-confirm either way.

So what about conditioning that reaction and then making a read to blow it up with Enhanced Hammer (ex... 1,2 3,EH-Hammer)? Still safe, but you get something like 35%.

Is that scaring opponents enough to not press buttons and give the string into Hammer?

So i play an erron black regularly and if i cancel into hammer, any string, he can follow up with 21122. You can only block, cant poke, cant backdash and poke cant jump, only thing you can is block and try to guess right out of all his options. I dont know about other matchups but theres things that can punish hammer cancels, or at leasr put pressure on you for free

 

[RM Ree]

You can block low in case of EB's ex launcher, and let go of block in between his punches to make the tackle whiff. Does anyone else do this when faced with the 21122 string?

 

[ChaosTheory]

So i play an erron black regularly and if i cancel into hammer, any string, he can follow up with 21122. You can only block, cant poke, cant backdash and poke cant jump, only thing you can is block and try to guess right out of all his options. I dont know about other matchups but theres things that can punish hammer cancels, or at leasr put pressure on you for free

I think you're talking about after a blocked Hammer, right? If so... yeah, it's definitely at least their turn after they blocked. So Erron would be one of the tougher deals in that regard. That standing 2 starter is great. Still, seems like only a few things will outright punsih Hammer on block.

Btw, I wonder if you could chip with Hammer (if that's what he typically lets you do) then interrupt his 2 with EH-Hammer. Make him think about it when you have meter?

Of course, that strikes me as more of a Grandmaster match-up anyway.

 

[RM Ree]

I was curious about that too. I'd have to check the frames, but I think hammer (blocked) > ex hammer runs the risk of having its armor shredded. It gets beat by a lot of moderately fast attacks. Might need a little less disadvantage to make that work.

 

[Wintermute088]

Alright so i thought of something on the bus and i think i might of found a way around it. Id like someone to double check this to make sure it does work though, im not 100% sure.

So, lets say you do f42xxhammer, you then have to backdash which thanks for subs iceskates gets you a fair amount of distance. If the EB player started 21122 as soon as he recovered from the blockstun he should connect with you on the last hit of 21122 which he cant connect with a commandgrab anyway. If he tries you can fullcombo with your string of choice.

Im mostly playing an Outlaw, so i figure he has 4 options out of this, 5 if he does nothing. First is finish 21122 with command grab which will whiff, second is the stab which is full combo on block, third is ex sand grenade which is full combo on block( i tried with 111 but the range is inconsistent so i opted for f33xxexhammer if you have meter or f33slide for the poormans version) and last option is exsandtoss which once again is fullcomboable on block.

I still need to field test this theorycrafting but it looked good in practice mode. Guess ill try it out in the field tomorrow.

Like I said, if I could get someone to test this and report back im curious to see if it works

 

[RM Ree]

So i play an erron black regularly and if i cancel into hammer, any string, he can follow up with 21122. You can only block, cant poke, cant backdash and poke cant jump, only thing you can is block and try to guess right out of all his options.

So you said earlier SZ cannot back dash in this case. Now you're saying he can... Can you clear this up for us, or was the theory crafting just wishful thinking

 

[I GOT HANDS]

D3, D3, D3xxEX-Hammer = Cryo corner game

 

[Wintermute088]

So you said earlier SZ cannot back dash in this case. Now you're saying he can... Can you clear this up for us, or was the theory crafting just wishful thinking

Yeah sorry I wasnt clear. Yes, you can backdash as soon as the hammer recovers, what i meant to say was even if you do backdash, youll still get hit if you try to d4 as hes coming in. So poking is out of the question, at best i got trades if he started his 21122 not frame perfect, at worse i got comboed.

 

[STK]

has anyone found some good 3bar combos with sub?