Match-up Discussion Stryker Matchup Discussion Thread

[Konqrr]

Updated July 10th 2014

The current Matchup Chart for Stryker is as follows:


5-5 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
3-7 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
3-7 vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
3-7 vs Jax
3-7 vs Johnny Cage
2-8 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
2-8 vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao
4-6 vs Liu Kang
4-6 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
3-7 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
4-6 vs Skarlet
3-7 vs Smoke
3-7 vs Sonya Blade
4-6 vs Sub-Zero



Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!

 

[Carefoot]

I think people need to place with Styker in tournaments to be able to tier him or any character for that matter?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Disagree. The Match-up against Jax is now against Stryker with the armored punch buff and pound cancels. 4-6
Mileena match-up is against Stryker because her pokes fit well into her game and Stryker already has problems with pokes. 4-6
The match-up against Sindel is a 7-3. Low fireballs combined with air Fireball to run away beats Stryker very hard as they negate his gun and roll while being too fast to be punished by bombs.

And if you must know, Skarlet, Kenshi, Rain are all 3-7 against Stryker in their current form.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Disagree. The Match-up against Jax is now against Stryker with the armored punch buff and pound cancels. 4-6
Mileena match-up is against Stryker because her pokes fit well into her game and Stryker already has problems with pokes. 4-6
The match-up against Sindel is a 7-3. Low fireballs combined with air Fireball to run away beats Stryker very hard as they negate his gun and roll while being too fast to be punished by bombs.

And if you must know, Skarlet, Kenshi, Rain are all 3-7 against Stryker in their current form.

Even tho I agree with everything you just said except for rain. Rain!? really? maybe I havent faced a good one yet but I really dont see that one.

EDIT: Again the baraka matchup is in Stryker's favor. You guys must know something that I dont

 

[Vulcan Hades]

There's no way Kano and Kitana have advantage over Stryker. It's 5-5 at worst but any Kano or Kitana player that has played a good Stryker knows they are at a disadvantage at all ranges but up close.

Kabal feels 3-7 for me.

Kung Lao ain't that tough. Stryker can severly punish most of his moves except low hat. Much easier to deal with than Kabal so I would say it's 4-6.

After playing against a lot of Nightwolf players I'm convinced Stryker has a clear advantage in that matchup.

I would say Sub is 5-5 or 4.5-5.5.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Come on now V we are all stryker players

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[Vulcan Hades]

lol sorry if I came across like a jerk.

But every post I read from D_Matt_Ma is just complaining and saying how bad Stryker is, how he doesn't have a single good matchup and how much he sucks at zoning. That just pisses me off. You just can't hope to improve with an attitude like that. He even said he was dropping Stryker in another thread. So why even come here if you're just going to spread negativity?

Stryker has way better pokes than Sindel. Gun shot kills any air fireball attempt. Low fireballs are stupid easy to beat if you have a brain. You guys that lose to low fireballs need to learn how to condition the opponent and how to actually take advantage of Stryker's weaknesses. Stryker has a 15-20% meterless punish vs low fireballs. Land that punish twice and the opponent will never dare throw another low fireball again. So then you'll be able to zone without fearing the low fireball. That's playing smart. You can't win by just spamming gun shot and hope they're not going to adapt.

Stryker is a good zoner and a good counter-zoner. But he's a better mind fucker.

Aris and CD jr are right: "It's us players that make characters become good or bad. It's not the other way around."

 

[MagicMan357]

IDC what CD says, if a character is shit, its shit

 

[Vulcan Hades]

IDC what CD says, if a character is shit, its shit

Jax was considered bottom last for a long time. Crazy Dominican picked him up and made him look A+ easy.

Smoke is considered mid-tier but Aris almost made top 8 with him and only lost to PL and REO.

Mileena was always considered to be the worst of the ninja females because of her low damaging combos but REO made people realize she was the best of them all.

If one of those guys started playing Stryker, Sheeva or Baraka I'm sure they would make them look pretty godlike.

 

[MagicMan357]

Jax was considered bottom last for a long time. Crazy Dominican picked him up and made him look A+ easy.

Smoke is considered mid-tier but Aris almost made top 8 with him and only lost to PL and REO.

If one of those guys started playing Stryker or Baraka I'm sure they would make them look pretty godlike.

Tiers are man made concepts, they arent from some deity

And i didnt see a jax come close to top 8, smoke is beast though

 

[RamenO]

Vulcan, not that I disagree, as I will still play Stryker in the two upcoming FL tournaments regardless of what tier or how bad he is, but you're kind of reaching here. The difference between all those you mentioned is they already had tools to work with, regardless of x person's performance. Jax was already a mixup monster(on top of buffs), Mileena is an incredibly deceptive character with high-low(on top of good zoning and counter zoning), Smoke is a Swiss Army Knife with an answer to everything.

Stryker is just lacking. It has nothing to do with a high level player using him.

On the matchups. I'd say that vs. Shang, Stryker would likely break even at 5-5. With zoning advantage, he isn't going to get an up or ground skull off in time, and the horizontal skull can be roll tossed. But...problem would be getting stuck in Shang's close lock down strings with close up skull as you have no reliable "get off me" move. On top of this trading just ONCE vs. Shang can lead to a 20-30+% combo. I'd say it's even; I don't see either having any real advantage here.

I don't agree with the Sektor and Mileena matchups. No way do I believe those are even. I go against a pretty decent Sektor player on a regular basis and flamethrower shuts down roll toss, ex up missile is a nightmare, and you have to be constantly wary of a teleport uppercut.

I also don't agree with the Kitana match. I feel Stryker has a slight advantage in this match, so to be safe I'd say it's a 5.5-4.5 in his favor.


Also, Vulcan, what exactly is Stryker's 15-20+% punish against Sindel's low fireball?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

I'm not going to get into a stupid pointless argument with you Vulcan.

The DLC characters are currently unbalanced, so so they should have match-up advantages against most of the cast due to pure damage output alone, not counting certain mechanics they have such as Skarlet's kunai lock. Jax has an advantage against Stryker, because one armored dash punch ensures he will probably stay on you for most of the match due to Stryker's weakness up close and Jax having a strong close range game. Mileena can just roll in response to all of his zoning, so it emphasizes more of a poking game, which we all know thanks to Reo's strong performance is in Mileena's favor.

So the only disagreement you share with me is Sindel. If you think it isn't in Sindel's favor because she has weak pokes, fine. I don't see how the poke game is relevant if the only tool to get around her low fireball also involves putting space between her and Stryker again.

 

[dookieagain]

Vulcan I do respect your tenacity but a lot of the stuff you espouse really isn't as viable as you seem to indicate it is. Also I'm not even sure what some of what you describe is. Crouch techs don't exist in this game. Unless you just mean cancelling to a ducking poke which can work well against some stuff such as teleports that hit high. But the problem is crouch poking a single teleport doesn't reallygain you much when the reward for hitting is so high. Plus to make anything like that work you have to choose to cancel the gunshot and hope they take the bait. If they don't they've just gotten closer and the speeds involved mean it's impossible to do on reaction.

Second stance canceling is still slow. I'm not convinced it saves any time at all. I've practiced it and the difference I've noticed seems to mostly be placebo. It still means you have to guess that they're going to react to you pulling the gun. Neither solution is viable on reaction which is the real issue. The fact that his cancel is still so slow (especially after playing Skarlet and seeing the options you have with her dagger cancels) just makes it unviable unless you have a fantastic read on your opponent. And if your reads are that good imagine what you could do with kabal or reptile.

I am curious about the low fireball punish you mention though. It can't possibly work on Kung Lao and kabal. The best you can hope for there is a dash standing 4 and even that can be spun if you don't do it perfectly. Is it just block dash 1,1 roll toss cause that's a lovely idea but it only works at mid screen and closer and why you would be at mid screen in the Sindel matchup is hard to fathom.

 

[phage]

In my opinion, playing this game on paper and in real life are very different. Stryker is played so little that it's awfully hard to base your game off anything or anyone like with other characters. Half of what I'm doing is stuff I've had to figure out for myself. You also can't just assume people will flowchart for you all day unless they're just bad players.

As for matchups, I'd agree that Kabal is easily Stryker's worst. It's not even really worth fighting a good Kabal with him because his zoning is vastly superiorand f+4 is way better than any poke Stryker has.

I would say Stryker's only saving grace right now is his strong set of normals. Standing 4 is an excellent defensive move and his uppercut is one of the better ones. d+4, d+1, and d+3 are also all viable. 3 is kind of a poor man's reset but it's something. Unfortunately none of these really lead into any offense so he can't exploit his one strength well.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I get you dookie. And just for the record, I'm not pretending Stryker is a great character. I know he's lacking offensive options and struggles on wake up. But going as far to say Stryker sucks at zoning and that he has no good matchups at all (like some others have said numerous times) kinda frustrates me.

IMO Stryker wins vs Kano, Kitana, Nightwolf, Sonya, Baraka, Quan Chi, Sheeva, Shang Tsung and Rain.

His only really terrible matchups are Kabal, Kung Lao, Noob Saibot, Smoke and Jade. The rest feels like it can go either way for me.

It still means you have to guess that they're going to react to you pulling the gun. Neither solution is viable on reaction which is the real issue.

MK9 is completely based on two things: meter management and making good reads. Doesn't matter how great your reaction is, 80% of the time you'll be guessing and anticipating stuff. Every time you jump or D1 you're making a guess. Even when you dash block you're anticipating something. So I don't think it's really a problem. It's part of the game to make good reads.

The punish I was talking about is: Gun hold (optional to bait low fireball), dash cancel xx jump forward late kick, dash cancel D1 xx roll toss or baton sweep (this works from far range btw). Can't remember the damage but I know it's around 15 or 18%. Of course you can get more if you use a meter. You're right about it not working on Kabal and Kung Lao though, their low projectile recovers too fast. That being said I've done this punish numerous times on a lot of Liu Kang, Noob and Sindel players. They didn't know what hit them. After doing it a few times they just stopped throwing low fireballs so I could start zoning normally. It completely mind fucks them and they don't know what to do. Doing something as simple as that can make them lose their advantage vs Stryker.

And btw about stance cancel, yes it allows Stryker to block much earlier. Although there is still a few frames where he is vulnerable. When you do it fast enough it's worth it (when you have frame advantage ideally). Not sure if you've noticed, but Stryker is actually blocking during most of stance animation when you do this correctly (you have to start holding block as soon as you press stance).

 

[dookieagain]

I get you dookie. And just for the record, I'm not pretending Stryker is a great character. I know he's lacking offensive options and struggles on wake up. But going as far to say Stryker sucks at zoning and that he has no good matchups at all (like some others have said numerous times) kinda frustrates me.

IMO Stryker wins vs Kano, Kitana, Nightwolf, Sonya, Baraka, Quan Chi, Sheeva, Shang Tsung and Rain.

His only really terrible matchups are Kabal, Kung Lao, Noob Saibot, Smoke and Jade. The rest feels like it can go either way for me.



MK9 is completely based on two things: meter management and making good reads. Doesn't matter how great your reaction is, 80% of the time you'll be guessing and anticipating stuff. Every time you jump or D1 you're making a guess. Even when you dash block you're anticipating something. So I don't think it's really a problem. It's part of the game to make good reads.

The punish I was talking about is: Gun hold (optional to bait low fireball), dash cancel xx jump forward late kick, dash cancel D1 xx roll toss or baton sweep (this works from far range btw). Can't remember the damage but I know it's around 15 or 18%. Of course you can get more if you use a meter. You're right about it not working on Kabal and Kung Lao though, their low projectile recovers too fast. That being said I've done this punish numerous times on a lot of Liu Kang, Noob and Sindel players. They didn't know what hit them. After doing it a few times they just stopped throwing low fireballs so I could start zoning normally. It completely mind fucks them and they don't know what to do. Doing something as simple as that can make them lose their advantage vs Stryker.

And btw about stance cancel, yes it allows Stryker to block much earlier. Although there is still a few frames where he is vulnerable. When you do it fast enough it's worth it (when you have frame advantage ideally). Not sure if you've noticed, but Stryker is actually blocking during most of stance animation when you do this correctly (you have to start holding block as soon as you press stance).

I'll try out the stance cancel, it's just hard to feel like gun cancelling with Stryker is worth it when the risk outweighs the reward. But maybe I'm just jaded since I've been playing Skarlet lately and she really makes Stryker feel obsolete since her dagger cancels are so superior and can really be used as a reaction rather than a pre-emptive bait.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Oh so that's why we don't see you so much around here anymore.

That's too bad, I liked your contributions to the Stryker forums..

 

[dookieagain]

No Stryker is still my main. I just gave Skarlet a shot cause I wanted to learn a DLC character and she was the least played. Honestly I've just been busy with class and most Stryker tech seems to be out in the open now. I plan to do some more videos once I get some space and once they patch again and our boy gets some buffs.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

This is a more accurate matchup chart imo:

6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
4-6 vs Cyrax
4-6 vs Ermac*
3-7 vs Freddy Krueger
4-6 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4-6 vs Johnny Cage*
2-8 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
3-7 vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana*
3-7 vs Kung Lao
4-6 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf*
4-6 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
6-4 vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor*
6-4 vs Shang Tsung*
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
4-6 vs Skarlet
4-6 vs Smoke*
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Sub-Zero


*I think these matchups are better than that, but most people disagree. I might go over why in another post tomorrow.


Smoke/Johnny Cage/Mileena/Kitana would make ideal sub characters to cover Stryker's bad matchups imo.

 

[Marcus Vinicius]

2-8 vs Kabal
3-7 vs Kenshi

These 2, I MUST desagree.
I think the Kabal keepaway game is a bit better. But just this. Stryker at a jump distance (pistol time), have much more option than Kabal.

And Kenshi, never give me a hard time (nor a easy one). 5-5 I think, because he isn´t so powerful. And his specials are easy to punish (not ever with a combo).

 

[Vulcan Hades]

And Kenshi, never give me a hard time (nor a easy one). 5-5 I think, because he isn´t so powerful. And his specials are easy to punish (not ever with a combo).

You might be right about Kenshi being closer to 5-5 than I think. I'm basing 3-7 simply off my personal experience so far and the few Kenshis I played but again, I'm obviously lacking experience in that matchup so I might be wrong. But I really think Kenshi still has an overall advantage over Stryker.


One thing I don't lack however is experience vs very good Kabal players. It's obviously worse than the Noob, Smoke and Jade matchup which are 4-6 so Stryker vs Kabal is 3-7 at best and 2-8 at worst.

Stryker at a jump distance (pistol time), have much more option than Kabal.

And what exactly are those options? Jump? Use a special move? Poke him?

Jumping: you get caught by 1 gas blast and Kabal gets a free nomad dash to set up his block trap. You're fighting to get out of his 50/50 while he builds insane meter.

Special: All of Stryker's special moves lose in trade vs ground saw. Only Roll Toss wins vs gas blast but then again that move sends Kabal full screen where you DON'T want him to be. Every time you land a roll toss on Kabal it's like you're helping him by giving him position advantage.

Poke: This I admit I am not sure how effective it is vs Kabal. I don't know a lot about Kabal's strings and pokes but it's very possible that Stryker has better footsies than him. Then again ground saw and EN nomad dash make all poking/frame trap attempts useless or very risky.


Maybe you know something I don't about this matchup. If so I'd like to know what is your technique to beat Kabal. But to me it's a hard battle every time.

But you're right about mid-range being the ideal distance to fight Kabal. It's the perfect distance to bait and punish his ground saws and nomad dash.

 

[Marcus Vinicius]

Well, I don´t try to zone Kabal directly.
He ever does Saw wake-up attack, and the pistol ever lose, i just antecipate this and jump (gun cancel), and THEN start sozing... he can´t spam saw (normally the 2nd fails). So after the saw is a good time for roll, or ever pistol. Pistol also work great (far) agaist the gast blast. usualy you can block the GB in time.

Nomad dash is very risk to Kabal players, they know that isn´t a good ideia use much of this.

Hmm... you told of Pokes... i´m not sure. When i have the chance, i ever go to a full combo on him. Starting with Jump punch, then the saw can´t hit you, and the nomad dash missed, grants you a free shot.

 

[Robotic]

Vulcan, when we last spoke, you agreed wholeheartedly that the Sektor v Stryker matchup was even. So a couple of questions:

1. What changed your mind?

2. Are there ANY OTHER STRYKER players with some insight on this matchup?

I've always believed this to be 6-4 in Sektors favor, easily. Then again, I haven't played too many Strykers. It boggles my mind this matchup was originally set to 6-4 Stryker.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Well I see it this way: they are both equal in every single department: Good zoning, good counters, good footsies, good air control, around the same damage output, resets that leave opponent standing, some mixups.

There's a few differences though that incite me to give a slight advantage to Stryker (although still very close to 5-5):

1. Stryker's counter zone tool is safe on block unlike Sektor's which can be punished by full combos.

2. Stryker is a little better at zoning than Sektor. (he can cancel his projectile to bait and punish teleport punch or missiles)

3. Stryker's wake up can snuff Sektor's offense while Sektor's wake up gets very easily stuffed. Even his enhanced teleport punch can be beaten by B3,2 or B2 or D4 which all lead to pretty nasty juggles.

4. Stryker's gun is much faster than missiles and can stuff Sektor's teleport punch with enough frame advantage. So in those situations when it comes down to the wire, Stryker will often come out on top.

5. Stryker also out-meters Sektor because unlike Sektor, Stryker can keep his meter for breakers and doesn't need to use enhanced specials. While Sektor pretty much relies on his meter for wake up and increased combo potential.

One of the only advantages I can think of that Sektor has is that flame thrower beats roll toss. But that hardly changes anything because Sektor won't be doing that on reaction very often. He has to guess at mid-range. Well I guess they both have to guess.

That's why I've considered making it 6-4 advantage Stryker but it's probably more like 5.5-4.5. I'd like to hear why you think Sektor has the advantage though.


@Marcus Vinicius: Thanks for the explanation. So you think that matchup is 4-6 or 3-7?

 

[Marcus Vinicius]

Oh right, i forgot that... . I think a 4 - 6 is fair.