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General/Other - Special Forces Stealth Special Forces Nerf!!!

colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Hi,

So nothing on the frame data for special forces seems to have changed at all. However, pre-patch off of a 2134 juggle combo ending you could guarantee a drone call and a drone special safely against all wake-ups.

Trying this now it seems impossible. The drone call is still safe, but the drone special get's punished.

Maybe before patch call drone was actuall 2in1 with drone specials and thats maybe been removed or maybe I'm getting my timing wrong for some reason...

This is a fairly big nerf because it slows downher pressure by not being guaranteed a homing missile on knoeckdown and gimmicks like b14~call~block+2 won't be possible and her armour braking and pressure in the corner gone.

@Ninequads93 and any other dronya players I can't remeber
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
I thought they just removed the variable hit advantage off of juggles. They said they removed Cassies so I thought it would be a universal nerf to all of the variable advantages.
 
Jolt

Jolt

Uprise
colby4898 said:
Hi,

So nothing on the frame data for special forces seems to have changed at all. However, pre-patch off of a 2134 juggle combo ending you could guarantee a drone call and a drone special safely against all wake-ups.

Trying this now it seems impossible. The drone call is still safe, but the drone special get's punished.

Maybe before patch call drone was actuall 2in1 with drone specials and thats maybe been removed or maybe I'm getting my timing wrong for some reason...

This is a fairly big nerf because it slows downher pressure by not being guaranteed a homing missile on knoeckdown and gimmicks like b14~call~block+2 won't be possible and her armour braking and pressure in the corner gone.

@Ninequads93 and any other dronya players I can't remeber
Click to expand...
I'm 100% agreeing there's a change here. I think you're right that the call into a special was a 2-in-1 before and now it's not.

It doesn't seem like you're in recovery after calling the drone (because you can block), but there's a cooldown of sorts where you can't use a drone special after calling it.

Same with 112, by the way.

Not like this, NRS :(
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Scott The Scot said:
I thought they just removed the variable hit advantage off of juggles. They said they removed Cassies so I thought it would be a universal nerf to all of the variable advantages.
Click to expand...
I don't think the hit advantage has changed because it's still perfectly safe. It's even the same when you're standing and you call the drone, you can't cancel it into a drone special as quickly.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
So this is a pretty substantial nerf and changes the way she is played a lot taking away pressure and her strong corner pressure. I've seen people mention how if the community bitches enough about something it will get changed. We as a special forces are limited in numbers so that is probably not possible.

How do we get this heard and hope that nrs revert the change as it was completely unneccessary. Is it even possible that this change was a mistake with the new update because it seems so random and wasn't mentioned in the stream.
 
Jolt

Jolt

Uprise
colby4898 said:
So this is a pretty substantial nerf and changes the way she is played a lot taking away pressure and her strong corner pressure. I've seen people mention how if the community bitches enough about something it will get changed. We as a special forces are limited in numbers so that is probably not possible.

How do we get this heard and hope that nrs revert the change as it was completely unneccessary. Is it even possible that this change was a mistake with the new update because it seems so random and wasn't mentioned in the stream.
Click to expand...
I'm almost certain it was a mistake and was most likely the result of fixing something elsewhere. If not, then maybe it didn't play nice with rollback. I'm not confident anything will happen even if we get ridiculously vocal. In many cases, Variation 3 just has to sit and let the other 2 have fun.
 
MK FIGHTER

MK FIGHTER

Knife Fight
MyronJ said:
I'm 100% agreeing there's a change here. I think you're right that the call into a special was a 2-in-1 before and now it's not.

It doesn't seem like you're in recovery after calling the drone (because you can block), but there's a cooldown of sorts where you can't use a drone special after calling it.

Same with 112, by the way.

Not like this, NRS :(
Click to expand...
Good job NRS keep nerfing Sonya. I hate that freakin character.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
MyronJ said:
I'm almost certain it was a mistake and was most likely the result of fixing something elsewhere. If not, then maybe it didn't play nice with rollback. I'm not confident anything will happen even if we get ridiculously vocal. In many cases, Variation 3 just has to sit and let the other 2 have fun.
Click to expand...
I'm not confident it will change either. It's not even like this was a bad variation either, but I think the change has brought her down a few more places on the tier list and she wasn't up there in the first place.
I don't have a twitter, but is it possible to somehow at least make sure nrs know about the change through that? And it's up to them if they revert it or not at least.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Just to be specific, we no longer get a drone call + free homing missile of a 2134 ender? Is this the same for b33212?

I mean, if Reptile slide punishes it, whatever. But if Sub wakeup slide punishes it, I'll go grab my torch and pitchfork.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Tony at Home said:
Just to be specific, we no longer get a drone call + free homing missile of a 2134 ender? Is this the same for b33212?

I mean, if Reptile slide punishes it, whatever. But if Sub wakeup slide punishes it, I'll go grab my torch and pitchfork.
Click to expand...
Yes, no free drone special off of 2134 drone call. I'm not sure if you get it from b33212 though.

It's not just being punished from a wakeup though, it's the pressure that you lose because of having to wait for the drone call to recover comletely which means it will be easier for opponents to escape the homing missile pressure as you can't activate it and run up to the same effect. I tested her after the patch and though there was no changes, then playing matches I notices opponents could just get up and punish me with a string when I tried to activate block+2. At first I thought #i was just meesing it up. So I'm pretty sure it means you basically can't activate a drone secial after 2134.

I haven't retested everything fully yet cos ive been playing with konjurer but it does mean no armour breaking in the corner and it will be much easier for the opponent to escape the corner. I haven't played loads of games with her since kp2 but I;m almost certain this is a huge nerf that has a huge effect on her momentum. Now every time you call drone momentum will be lost.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Dedlock said:
I know the Borgs put all of Sonya's variations to shame,

Special forces Is obsolete now, that leaves the match-up dependent Covert Ops and a viable demo left.
Click to expand...
I'll still play special forces because I don't like her other variations, but it will always be an uphill struggle now I feel. Before she could herself quite well in comparison to the the other variations even though she wasnt as good, but now... she's almost useless.
 
Dedlock

Dedlock

Apprentice
colby4898 said:
I'll still play special forces because I don't like her other variations, but it will always be an uphill struggle now I feel. Before she could herself quite well in comparison to the the other variations even though she wasnt as good, but now... she's almost useless.
Click to expand...
Sektor is a vastly superior special forces Sonya variation. His him homing missles actually hurt.
 
MK FIGHTER

MK FIGHTER

Knife Fight
KingKhrystopher said:
Dude... CYRX EXISTS, BUT SONYA IS OP!!?!??!
Click to expand...
Actually we don't know enough about Cyrax yet to call him OP. We do know enough about Sonya though that has over 10 months now of playable history and yes she is OP. Based on NRS history with MK9 Sonya was OP then and Cyrax may turn out to be OP as well, but don't jump to conclusions just yet. Wait till Cyrax has been played by the community for at least 6 months before rushing to add him to the Sonya OP class.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
MK FIGHTER said:
Actually we don't know enough about Cyrax yet to call him OP. We do know enough about Sonya though that has over 10 months now of playable history and yes she is OP. Based on NRS history with MK9 Sonya was OP then and Cyrax may turn out to be OP as well, but don't jump to conclusions just yet. Wait till Cyrax has been played by the community for at least 6 months before rushing to add him to the Sonya OP class.
Click to expand...
IMO only demo is OP. Definitely top 5. Covert ops is good but not OP. Dronya was also good, I would have out her as equally good as covert ops. But now she's nowhere near as good as either of them, this change was just ridiculous and unjustified.
 
MK FIGHTER

MK FIGHTER

Knife Fight
colby4898 said:
IMO only demo is OP. Definitely top 5. Covert ops is good but not OP. Dronya was also good, I would have out her as equally good as covert ops. But now she's nowhere near as good as either of them, this change was just ridiculous and unjustified.
Click to expand...
Demolition is not necessarily what makes her OP. Her over the top dynamic mixup/cancel move set and specials make her OP. Sonya is a 50/50 75% safe character that can pressure, zone and open up any opponent easier and safer than any other character in the game. When a character has at least two completely safe and armorable specials, and has 4-5 OH-Low, Low-OH, Low-Mid-OH, Mid-Low-OH combo chains that are pretty much all cancelable into specials with fast recovery that forces an opponent to guess right only 5 out of 20 times then has to worry about safe on block strings, that is what an OP character is. That is why Sonya is an OP character across all variations.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Neither or her armoured special are completely safe though.
Her low is completely safe and goes into ggod pressure which is very good.
Her overhead low has a gap though and is unsafe. In special forces it can be cancelled into low kami but there is a gap there to.
In covert ops both her low and overhead option from military stance are unsafe and Im pretty sure the OH can be fuzzy guarded.
She also doesn't have good zoning in covert ops.
I agree with you she was a great character in all variations but I don't think covert ops or spcial were op because they don't have anything that other characters don't have. Other characters also have good zoning and safe 50/50s.
If you want to talk tiers: Demo S, covert ops A+, dronya was A but now B in my opinion
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
I played today, and I can't quite put my finger on what exactly changed.

I did notice that after a drone summon I was pressing the drone attack and nothing was coming out. And this was very much a timing I had in muscle memory.

Either I've been playing too much KI and my timing was janked, or there's a built in time between calling the drone and using a drone attack that is longer than it once was.

Drone call and attack startup feels the same, but it definitely feels like I have to wait a bit longer after the initial call to get it to fire. Can't say I'm sure of it though.

Would be nice if we had official info on this from NRS.
 
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