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Spinal's Throw

loogie

Noob
Spinal back throw set up is dumb. 100% safe, unreactable or fuzzy-able "time to guess, bitch" mix up marvel / injustice style

Low crush moves can pass over the skull and punish spinal if he teleports behind but OOPS since the skull moves so slow and low crushes advance forward you still get hit by it after it connects and the low invincibility runs out. Same with shadow moves.

I could try uppercuts but I'm 90% sure they'll just whiff

Only Sabrewulf has a solid option to reversal out. DOWN UP DERP so annoying. I wish they would change the input of that move to a regular DP motion

Any thoughts for dealing with it?

"don't get thrown" LOL YOU'RE SO CLEVER shut up
For SW, you mean eclipse when exactly? Once spinal teleports? I find it hard to defend the back throw setup of spinal... Or shadow eclipse?
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
For SW, you mean eclipse when exactly? Once spinal teleports? I find it hard to defend the back throw setup of spinal... Or shadow eclipse?
Shadow eclipse, yea. I didn't check to see if it actually works but it should in theory; full invincibility (including projectile) and a massive hitbox that covers him on all sides so it doesn't matter if spinal went in front or behind OR WHEN he went in front or behind.

The problem with reversal-ing out of the set up with other characters is that the input is side dependent, so you're still guessing which side spinal is on or whether he went in front or behind when inputting the wake up attack.

Not sabre, though. down up isn't side dependent so you can reliably get the attack out 100% of the time no matter what. If the attack isn't coming out I'd say your timing is off. If it's whiffing or getting blocked then that's a separate issue
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Shadow eclipse, yea. I didn't check to see if it actually works but it should in theory; full invincibility (including projectile) and a massive hitbox that covers him on all sides so it doesn't matter if spinal went in front or behind OR WHEN he went in front or behind.

The problem with reversal-ing out of the set up with other characters is that the input is side dependent, so you're still guessing which side spinal is on or whether he went in front or behind when inputting the wake up attack.

Not sabre, though. down up isn't side dependent so you can reliably get the attack out 100% of the time no matter what. If the attack isn't coming out I'd say your timing is off. If it's whiffing or getting blocked then that's a separate issue
I've def. done much better when I guess then when I try to use a reversal.
I dont' think i've reversaled out of the setup even once.

The only thing i've done is wakeup throw (because throws are projectile immune) when i've seen that the low skull wasn't shot at the right time.

When he back throws me.... i Just commit to blocking one way and hope i'm right and prepare to break the combo. Man that sounds shitty after I typed it all out.....
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
wat? not on startup though... right? Just the animation of the throw
Right... that is why I said "when i notice the low skull isn't shot properly"
I mean throws are 4 frames right.... that is hella fast... and they seem to have priority over ALL moves.

Don't get me wrong..... throwing on wakeup won't work on the setup when done right. That is how good the setup is really...... the fact that I have to go as far as throwing on my wakeup.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I'm adding you
I need good spinal practice. I don't even recognize his AD, manuals.
I also am not used to his setups.

We shoudl play :)
Lol I'm not good spinal practice yet. Literally just started playing him and I'm not great at the game to begin with.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
And like @Dr. Handsome said, I think Thunder is great against this setup because he can shadow shamamish or CotE (which, one is a reverse input of the other) and escape the setup, so he doesn't even really have to guess. I also think light command grab (yes, it's a guess, but just throwing it out there) and maybe even regular shamamish as wakeups beat it out? There is a very real chance that I was just timing the setup poorly because I was just trying it on the fly and hadn't practiced the timing, but that seemed to be working. Anyone have more experience with the Thunder-Spinal matchup? I'm struggling with this setup and the fight in general.
 
Whilst Sammamish and even Triplax should beat the skull, I didn't think that CotE was invulnerable, it's just fast, and so it would be stuffed and so you have to guess with one direction.

As a Spinal, if your back is to the corner you obviously can't do the normal mixup. One sequence I have been using for this situation is to still do a back throw but then do an overhead skull and do another back throw on the opponent's wakeup. They generally don't expect the throw and will either block or DP. A non shadow DP will trade with the skull and you will both be knocked down but as the skull hits after the invulnerability has ended (aka: after you are hit) you will apply the curse to them. If they tech then the skull will pass through them during the tech animation, and a shadow DP (particularly Eclipse) will beat you and not get hit itself.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Whilst Sammamish and even Triplax should beat the skull, I didn't think that CotE was invulnerable, it's just fast, and so it would be stuffed and so you have to guess with one direction.

As a Spinal, if your back is to the corner you obviously can't do the normal mixup. One sequence I have been using for this situation is to still do a back throw but then do an overhead skull and do another back throw on the opponent's wakeup. They generally don't expect the throw and will either block or DP. A non shadow DP will trade with the skull and you will both be knocked down but as the skull hits after the invulnerability has ended (aka: after you are hit) you will apply the curse to them. If they tech then the skull will pass through them during the tech animation, and a shadow DP (particularly Eclipse) will beat you and not get hit itself.
Ok so I'm probably not timing it fast enough and the CotE should get stuffed. Good to know. But I believe the shadow versions of both moves beat the setup, which at least eliminates the need to guess if he has meter, right?
 
Actually, you can do it too fast: if the skull is past them as they get up then it was too early. If it does beat it then yes you're right, however I'm pretty certain CotE is only throw invulnerable.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Yea, Thunder's shadow command grab will get stuffed if done properly; the start up is 5/0 and it's not invincible. Shadow triplax will probably beat it though, armoring through the skull
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Premium Supporter
@AK L0rdoftheFLY

Remember when Skarlet first came out and you could get 2 slides, then overhead almost everytime? Everyone just got hit by the lows then tried to block low and you could do the overhead. That day one tech lol.

Spinal's throw low skull trap works like that right now, do back throw low skull tele behind twice, then do it again but tele in front. Its that same 1,2,3 gimmick that works like a charm. people will catch on soon though but until they do im going to force them to respect it, and once they know the pattern, then the real games open up... very skarlet like in that spinal's matchups get more fun to play if the opponent actually knows your options.
Not against me though. Bwahahahahha

But seriously... are we still friends on xbox? I'm going to be playing KI a lot more once I get my new hitbox within the next couple weeks. We used to play lots of games lol.
 

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
Not against me though. Bwahahahahha

But seriously... are we still friends on xbox? I'm going to be playing KI a lot more once I get my new hitbox within the next couple weeks. We used to play lots of games lol.
I'll look through my list to make sure that we are, and if not I'll look you up so we can play more. It's probably been a few years since we've played! I'm playing Ki a lot lately, also have been playing Sf for about a month, after a 4 year break from it, and... AND!!! I'm very excited to be playing MK again! I've been goin in in MK with local guys and also playing online again. Man I love that game :)

My xbl is: BNA Johnny2D
 
I believe SW's Shadow Eclipse is invincible on startup, but not during active frames.

I'll check to see if it gets out of this.
 

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
I believe SW's Shadow Eclipse is invincible on startup, but not during active frames.

I'll check to see if it gets out of this.
Talking about the throw or the ex tele from the air?

The back throw into low skull against sabrewulf is still good because it forces action. His only option to deal with it is ex eclipse, which for him is good if he knows you are teleporting close. His input is dn up so it doesn't matter if you tele in front or behind, it covers him either way. Luckily, Spinal has an option to beat this. If they are going to use their meter to wakeup out of this trap, tele using lk, to appear far enough away that you can whiff punish him. This mixup works very well after you've already tricked them with this once, rather than just teleporting in front of him, teleport in front but far enough away that you are safe. At worst you are back in a neutral situation.

Now, the ex tele from the air actually trades with sabrewulf's shadow eclipse, sometimes in Spinal's favor, and other times hitting him clean. Since you are coming from below, you aren't in his hitbox for the eclipse. Most of the time this trades.