SonicFox new tier list

[deathstroke187]

i feel like jax is top 10 and better than terminator and raiden and dvora. only if you can get the quad grab kb consistently lol.

Also for sub. saying he doesnt have a good mid , he has an advancing low that is unreactible and hit confirm into 340 dmg or 300dmg reset. i know its still not a mid but if you spam d4 on him he will just slide yo ass putting that kb fear in your mind. i dont care who you are nobody can react to slide midscreen. sub can legit freeze you in neutral cause of slide and b2 and b1. the downplay of this character is crazy. if nrs buff him he can become the most broken character in mk11 free. his a mkx character with tons of fuck neutral tool and auto footsies resets and tons of kb dmg. be careful of what you wish for.

 

[MKF30]

"Best in the world"? Ha tell that to Ninja Killer. lol how about giving him some props...just cause he's a known tourney player don't mean he's always right.

i feel like jax is top 10 and better than terminator and raiden and dvora. only if you can get the quad grab kb consistently lol.

Also for sub. saying he doesnt have a good mid , he has an advancing low that is unreactible and hit confirm into 340 dmg or 300dmg reset. i know its still not a mid but if you spam d4 on him he will just slide yo ass putting that kb fear in your mind. i dont care who you are nobody can react to slide midscreen. sub can legit freeze you in neutral cause of slide and b2 and b1. the downplay of this character is crazy. if nrs buff him he can become the most broken character in mk11 free. his a mkx character with tons of fuck neutral tool and auto footsies resets and tons of kb dmg. be careful of what you wish for.

Indeed, it's a nobrainer Jax and Jacqui are better than Raiden, T800 and D'vorah.

 

[mrapchem]

Wayment?!!?!?!?! Did SF just say Sub-Zero's B1 should be buffed to be a mid?!?!?! As a Sub main, I don't even know how to feel about that....

 

[deathstroke187]

Wayment?!!?!?!?! Did SF just say Sub-Zero's B1 should be buffed to be a mid?!?!?! As a Sub main, I don't even know how to feel about that....

its sonic strategy , he wants to main sub by downplaying him to death and asking for buffs that would make him broke af.

 

[mrapchem]

its sonic strategy , he wants to main sub by downplaying him to death and asking for buffs that would make him broke af.

I don't know, because everything he said about Sub-Zero is the Gospel Truth: Sub-Zero has to rely on his 50/50s because he doesn't have a mid. Due to the nature of online, people can't react to the overhead, so it becomes legit when it really isn't, but the data doesn't lie; Sub-Zero players are scarce in these tournaments.

 

[John Grizzly]

Sonic says Raiden is S tier and Sub Zero is bottom 2, yet some stream monster on one of Scar's broadcasts called out Sonic and said he could beat Sonic's Raijin in a first to 5 with Avalanche SZ. Granted, Sonic did win, but it was down to the last round of the last game. Whoever it was took 4 games and a round off Sonic. I know online is a bit different, but it seems absurd to say Sub Zero is potentially the worst character in the game.

 

[deathstroke187]

SF said Jax was top 5 if i remember , then stream jax a bit and has a unique style with his jax. Focus on cmd grabbing a lot. IMO his jax is the best jax better than Gunny and Vgy. the very next patch Jax quad grab gets a difficulty nerf. I really believe if he wasnt playing him that wouldnt had happend. Funny enough SF didn't do shit in tournament with jax after the patch.

 

[Icefyre]

Sonic says Raiden is S tier and Sub Zero is bottom 2, yet some stream monster on one of Scar's broadcasts called out Sonic and said he could beat Sonic's Raijin in a first to 5 with Avalanche SZ. Granted, Sonic did win, but it was down to the last round of the last game. Whoever it was took 4 games and a round off Sonic. I know online is a bit different, but it seems absurd to say Sub Zero is potentially the worst character in the game.

In Sonic’s video, he made sure to say that Sub’s bottom 2 tier placing is for offline only. Online Sonic said he’d put him in S tier, and that he usually declines Sub players online because of that. Not that I’m disagreeing with you, just clarifying.

 

[thlityoursloat]

SF said Jax was top 5 if i remember , then stream jax a bit and has a unique style with his jax. Focus on cmd grabbing a lot. IMO his jax is the best jax better than Gunny and Vgy. the very next patch Jax quad grab gets a difficulty nerf. I really believe if he wasnt playing him that wouldnt had happend. Funny enough SF didn't do shit in tournament with jax after the patch.

Idk how he manages to get away with grabbing so much.
For me, the grab either doesn't come out, whiffs point blank for no reason, they get hit randomly or they actually duck it on read. Either ways you're eating a full combo every time and as Jax that damage can be hard to make up contrary to popular belief. When the grab does come out, the KB is even more hit and miss. IDFK why they keep making 1 button ticks harder. I recall a big difficulty jump from MKX ticks to Injustice 2 ticks, now they're a total shitshow, might as well never come out. d1bf1, nope, d1bf1, nope, d1bf1 come out on HIT, d2 KB, ggs.
Fighting someone like Baraka is a true nightmare because 1 of his reads is equal to 3-5 of yours.

 

[deathstroke187]

Idk how he manages to get away with grabbing so much.
For me, the grab either doesn't come out, whiffs point blank for no reason, they get hit randomly or they actually duck it on read. Either ways you're eating a full combo every time and as Jax that damage can be hard to make up contrary to popular belief.
Fighting someone like Baraka is a true nightmare because 1 of his reads is equal to 3-5 of yours.

Yeah jax can delete anyone if he keeps getting good reads. but if you are 50/50 on your reads you do no dmg and then everytime baraka or geras hit you , you lose half your life. People claim jax is brain dead but you really have to outplay your opponent to get anything going with jax since jax staggers and staggers to cmd grab is more a gimmick than anything. Not like 12 kotal tick or 11 kano etc.. jax have nothing like that and since f4 nerf for jax its hard to force your opponent to stay there and block huge risk for average reward plus dont fuck your timing on the quad too or enjoy your 180 dmg for 2 bars.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Yeah jax can delete anyone if he keeps getting good reads. but if you are 50/50 on your reads you do no dmg and then everytime baraka or geras hit you , you lose half your life. People claim jax is brain dead but you really have to outplay your opponent to get anything going with jax since jax staggers and staggers to cmd grab is more a gimmick than anything. Not like 12 kotal tick or 11 kano etc.. jax have nothing like that and since f4 nerf for jax its hard to force your opponent to stay there and block huge risk for average reward plus dont fuck your timing on the quad too or enjoy your 180 dmg for 2 bars.

Finally someone gets me...
People who have no idea how to deal with staggers complaining about his f2 and f33 staggers drive me insane. The reality is that Jax is negative on almost anything and his 50/50s are high risk/low reward unless he has KBs loaded, which are way harder to get on good players because heat goes away quick.
Even his + frames suck, +1 with fastest poke being 7f. Yeah. So oppressive.
The cmd grab nerf sucks balls, his grab is only useful because of its KB. -40 super short ranged high command grab that only ticks off of pokes that people eat at the most random times.

 

[deathstroke187]

Finally someone gets me...
People who have no idea how to deal with staggers complaining about his f2 and f33 staggers drive me insane. The reality is that Jax is negative on almost anything and his 50/50s are high risk/low reward unless he has KBs loaded, which are way harder to get on good players because heat goes away quick.
Even his + frames suck, +1 with fastest poke being 7f. Yeah. So oppressive.
The cmd grab nerf sucks balls, his grab is only useful because of its KB. -40 super short ranged high command grab that only ticks off of pokes that people eat at the most random times.

Exactly i couldnt had said better.

Jax is very close to be the most balanced character in mk11 in my opinion. His very very good and im not downplaying him i would just revert that timing nerf on his cmd grab or put a clear visual cue for the third slam. Then ill give his f4 to be +3 instead of +1 so he can frame trap people and force them to block. besides that his very well balanced.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Exactly i couldnt had said better.

Jax is very close to be the most balanced character in mk11 in my opinion. His very very good and im not downplaying him i would just revert that timing nerf on his cmd grab or put a clear visual cue for the third slam. Then ill give his f4 to be +3 instead of +1 so he can frame trap people and force them to block. besides that his very well balanced.

Yeah he's definitely good and balanced. The problem is that most people think he's this braindead oppressive pressure monster and it's bullshit. No way he'll get buffs like this.

 

[deathstroke187]

Yeah he's definitely good and balanced. The problem is that most people think he's this braindead oppressive pressure monster and it's bullshit. No way he'll get buffs like this.

history repeats itself. in mkx all the pro claimed Jax was top 10 and then got nerf to shit and got a hotfix that even killed him many pros after that said jax was the worst character in the game since he was high risk low reward plus you could fuzy his 123 , 12 overhead dash punch mix easly.

Nrs just hate jax lol

 

[MKF30]

Jax is annoying in this game. They don't hate him in this game, that title goes to Raiden lol

 

[deathstroke187]

Jax is annoying in this game. They don't hate him in this game, that title goes to Raiden lol

you think jax anoying ? just wait untill you play a good kotal player.
hes jax on steroids

122 is plus 1 if he finish the string and tickthrow into a very easy input db2 that is a mid yup cant duck it unlike jax also for 1 bar it does the same dmg as jax quad for 2 bars if you fuck up the kb .if you try to mash you get launched for about 300 dmg and it increase after each cmd grab.

Kotal has better anti zoning than jax with his kb has more health do more dmg on average has to take less risk and has more range. the only thing jax have over kotal is faster pokes and fb. thats about it

 

[MKF30]

you think jax anoying ? just wait untill you play a good kotal player.
hes jax on steroids

122 is plus 1 if he finish the string and tickthrow into a very easy input db2 that is a mid yup cant duck it unlike jax also for 1 bar it does the same dmg as jax quad for 2 bars if you fuck up the kb .if you try to mash you get launched for about 300 dmg and it increase after each cmd grab.

Kotal has better anti zoning than jax with his kb has more health do more dmg on average has to take less risk and has more range. the only thing jax have over kotal is faster pokes and fb. thats about it

I have played a few good kotals, they're annoying but I'd rather face him than jax. At least with kotal, I can breath lol. I just feel smothered with his punches and his kick, kick. I definitely agree that jax is easier to zone once hes at a distance. Kotal I played this one who kept recharging and hiding behind totems. Was like wtf is this shit lol. I won with jade but God i had to be patient and one round I beat him due to time out lol

 

[MeSoFoolish]

the only thing jax have over kotal is faster pokes and fb. thats about it

Lets ignore a staggerable 9f mid here shall we?
You talk about a mid cmd grab while jax has a bf2 that has to be ducked on reaction which is harder than jumping out of the 12 string. And they both struggle zoning in their own way. They both have their strengths and flaws, but you make it look like Kotal is the 9th grader who takes Jax's lunch money for free everyday.

 

[deathstroke187]

Lets ignore a staggerable 9f mid here shall we?
You talk about a mid cmd grab while jax has a bf2 that has to be ducked on reaction which is harder than jumping out of the 12 string. And they both struggle zoning in their own way. They both have their strengths and flaws, but you make it look like Kotal is the 9th grader who takes Jax's lunch money for free everyday.

Like i said jax pokes are faster but only is f33 is a stagger since its -4 you can react to the stagger and mash d1 if you have a 6-7 f poke. for you Jax as a great mix with f33 bf2 amplify ? ok so if i guess right and amplify it i get 120 dmg and you are sent full screen. and if i guess wrong im -22 and get kbed crazy risk reward there man.

both options for kotal gives way more dmg and arent as risky. its just facts.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Lets ignore a staggerable 9f mid here shall we?
You talk about a mid cmd grab while jax has a bf2 that has to be ducked on reaction which is harder than jumping out of the 12 string. And they both struggle zoning in their own way. They both have their strengths and flaws, but you make it look like Kotal is the 9th grader who takes Jax's lunch money for free everyday.

Staggerable mid that's unsafe at 2 points.
You people blow f33 way the fuck out of proportion. f3 is double digits unsafe and f33 1+3 is flawless blockable. You have 2 opportunities to full combo Jax meanwhile all he gets is 11-15%. How is neutral ducking bf2 mb any harder than jumping 12 lol. Kotal can always 12 uppercut you into a full combo or safely finish the string. You literally have to guess. What else does Jax have that reaches as far as stiff arm MB? Mmmm.. regular stiff arm? That's like -15?
I'm not even going to mention the guy that said Jax doesn't let you breathe because "punch punch kick kick". Are you fucking serious.
You breathe better against a character with a half screen 18f mid that full combos? A character that forces you into a 50/50 every d1 on hit? That can grab you in whatever direction he wants because he has KBs on BOTH grabs? Come on.

 

[deathstroke187]

Staggerable mid that's unsafe at 2 points.
You people blow f33 way the fuck out of proportion. f3 is double digits unsafe and f33 1+3 is flawless blockable. You have 2 opportunities to full combo Jax meanwhile all he gets is 11-15%.
I'm not even going to mention the guy that said Jax doesn't let you breathe because "punch punch kick kick". Are you fucking serious.
You breathe better against a character with a half screen 18f mid that full combos? A character that forces you into a 50/50 every d1 on hit? That can grab you in whatever direction he wants because he has KBs on BOTH grabs? Come on.

kotal can legit mash d1 and if you dont respect it he can either d1 df2 launch you or db2 and tick throw you with his mid lol. whatever man i dont know what els to say

 

[thlityoursloat]

kotal can legit mash d1 and if you dont respect it he can either d1 df2 launch you or db2 and tick throw you with his mid lol. whatever man i dont know what els to say

Nope, he doesn't even have to d1 uppercut, he could just jail you into 12 and then hitconfirm.
YEAH BUT JAX KICK KICK THOUGH. I swear people just don't even lab his options. You can't abuse f3 by itself, and you can't abuse f33 1+3, if Jax is doing that against you that's on you.
The only safe way to mixup f33 is with stiff arm mb but that's just as negative as the oh option so you just have to sit there and take it. Can't really flawless block because most jabs will straight up jail you. That and even Jax's FB options suck, all he has is u3 which again, is high risk low reward.

 

[deathstroke187]

Nope, he doesn't even have to d1 uppercut, he could just jail you into 12 and then hitconfirm.
YEAH BUT JAX KICK KICK THOUGH. I swear people just don't even lab his options. You can't abuse f3 by itself, and you can't abuse f33 1+3, if Jax is doing that against you that's on you.
The only safe way to mixup f33 is with stiff arm mb but that's just as negative as the oh option so you just have to sit there and take it. Can't really flawless block because most jabs will straight up jail you. That and even Jax's FB options suck, all he has is u3 which again, is high risk low reward.

also you cant even meaty/oki with f3 or f33 , you can but is really risky since f3 or f33 is full combo punishable after a forward roll wake up what a god like kick kick move

 

[thlityoursloat]

also you cant even meaty/oki with f3 or f33 , you can but is really risky since f3 or f33 is full combo punishable after a forward roll wake up what a god like kick kick move

Oh and should we tell them about how it's usually a great idea to neutral duck against him? His overpowered 9f mid leads into the same damage that his grab does lol. OH but the KB, he has to hit you with 2 f2 1+3s in a row. or 3 f33 1+3s in a row. And it's only 30%. A 1 time 30% off of a mid.. jeez, that's.. just broken.

 

[deathstroke187]

Oh and should we tell them about how it's usually a great idea to neutral duck against him? His overpowered 9f mid leads into the same damage that his grab does lol. OH but the KB, he has to hit you with 2 f2 1+3s in a row. or 3 f33 1+3s in a row. And it's only 30%. A 1 time 30% off of a mid.. jeez, that's.. just broken.

also all his plus frames if you have a 6f d1 you can just mash since you are equal with him since jax d1 is 7f you can trade or win. most of the time you better just duck againts jax like you said. honestly if you get command grabbed by jax you deserve it. im not asking for buffs but if i was to make jax even better than the previous minor changes i said before.

i would make jax f2 1+3 fully safe and no flawless block gaps. that would help his f33 1+3 a lot.
like ive said make f4 great again +3 so he can really pressure witout gimmicks.
revert that difficulty nerf on the quad or put a real visual cue like it was intended before the nerf (splash circles on the ground) its only 350 dmg for 2 bars ffs

even then it wouldnt change the facts that jax get zoned out untill he gets his arms heated up. Just dd3 dawg and zone , yeah try that againts subzero or liu see how it goes for you dawg. anyway jax is still a very good character just close to be perfect but nrs have to stop overnerfing characters for no reasons. Jax got nerfed every single patch so far.