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Match Footage SonicFox in Neutral

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Can we get one of these for DJT's footsies? I need a quick reference anytime someone bitches about lack of fundamentals in MKX.
@Protagonist_1 if you ever do this, I think you should sneak in a GIF or two of him doing anti cross-over standing jabs (yes in MKX).
I've noticed DJT doing that many times and he's incredibly good with it.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
so the way i see it, EB's neutral game is solid but not super crazy or anything.
erron black's d3 is like... pretty average. his run speed is also matched by most of the cast, there are a few slow runners but yea.

the point of the footsies battle is to get into advantageous positioning, and EB's mixup starter 21122 is REALLY good, other chars don't really match it. getting 21122 off of winning footsies battle is usually how sonicfox wins matches

the char that wins off of suffocating neutral in this game is cassie cage, and the cassie players play too risky or don't play footsies well enough imo
Agreed and very well put, the main thing is that 21122 has great range so it's useful on footsies and if you block it then you are put in a guessing game. Most chars footsies tools don't have guessing games that favor them on block as heavily as EB, while also allowing hit confirms off both ground and air.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Agreed and very well put, the main thing is that 21122 has great range so it's useful on footsies and if you block it then you are put in a guessing game. Most chars footsies tools don't have guessing games that favor them on block as heavily as EB, while also allowing hit confirms off both ground and air.
This is accurate, but the tick throw makes you squirm on block and you always have to respect the EX grenade when he has meter. It does a lot so it makes sense that there arent many moves in the game that match up to it, but it also leads into a lot of Erron Black specific things. If you gave 21122 to Reptile or Kung Jin it serves as simply a good hit confirm, and their other buttons are just as good in the neutral game.
Only comparison I can think of is dvorahs f112 series with cancels, it gives you a 50/50 (throws not included) on block, a 30-40% combo on hit, chip on block into +frames and f11 is neutral if you want to stagger it. If it catches a jump or they arent blocking you can confirm and convert easily off it, has incredible range in the neutral game and compliments her other tools heavily.
 

delbuster

hungry
yeah, what i meant to stress that i really didn't seem to in that post, is that EB's neutral isn't super strong by itself, it's how he easily transitions into strong mixup. Still need to win the footsies battle first and react to whiffs or bait the whiffs, or smell the hesitation and go in.
and that's why most non-SonicFox EBs aren't having that much success.

i think there is a bit of truth in the people complaining about 50/50s, since SonicFox is so good at the neutral game and transitioning into his offense, you aren't going to SEE much extended neutral game in his matches except when he is being patient. once he gets an opening he is not going to let it go back to neutral that easily.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
This is accurate, but the tick throw makes you squirm on block and you always have to respect the EX grenade when he has meter. It does a lot so it makes sense that there arent many moves in the game that match up to it, but it also leads into a lot of Erron Black specific things. If you gave 21122 to Reptile or Kung Jin it serves as simply a good hit confirm, and their other buttons are just as good in the neutral game.
Only comparison I can think of is dvorahs f112 series with cancels, it gives you a 50/50 (throws not included) on block, a 30-40% combo on hit, chip on block into +frames and f11 is neutral if you want to stagger it. If it catches a jump or they arent blocking you can confirm and convert easily off it, has incredible range in the neutral game and compliments her other tools heavily.
Right. Same reason other grappler aren't as dangerous; they don't have strings that have multiple chances for tick throws. Usually it's only one hit off of a string, and usually not their footsies string. So there is no comparison you can make really.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Right. Same reason other grappler aren't as dangerous; they don't have strings that have multiple chances for tick throws. Usually it's only one hit off of a string, and usually not their footsies string. So there is no comparison you can make really.
Other grapplers have the simple command grab vs something different options on the END of strings, its a solid mixup but gives the defending party a bit of leniency in what you can get away with, if Kotal or Goro goes for a tick throw and you neutral duck it you arent taking 30%. Mainly cos the only things fast enough to follow up will be pokes or a high starter, and if you get hit by the string its not getting confirmed into big damage if they input the throw. In some cases if you get hit and the tick throw comes out you can just straight up punish them for trying! (I think kotal has a 2 hit string which he can tick throw either hit, though)

Erron has ticks on multiple hits of the string so the outcome is set in stone if you guess wrong, and i dont think many people are making perfect reads on when the throw comes or reacting. You have to take a risk to get out of blocking something risky, Erron hasnt lost anything either.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
If only you could do this online!

Also buff AAs and make backdashes better for whiff punishing strings and this game will be godlike.
 
I dont think ive seen anyone say SonicFox lacks fundamentals, it is quite clear he is one of the best (or THE best) MK player out there.

However, the fact you need to select a few gif moments to highlight these fundamental pretty much demonstrates MKXs shortfall. The fundamentals that exist simply lead to the corner and most often death. The corner is not too hard to achieve after you apply the fundamentals (into combos), and then the 50/50s or endless pressure begins where 90% of the match ends up.

Every fighting game has the fundamentals you highlighted, but MKX excutes it poorly at a competitive level. Tekken and SF are examples of well designed fighting games. If MK wishes to remain relevant in the competitive scene, it needs to stop changing sequels up so much, and focus on finding a core fighting style foundation, whilst innovating and improving on it for the next games.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
Damn you broke him down so well, youd probably know his game plan enough to give him a hell of a match