Sonic Explains Why Every Type of Jump-In is Counterable

[DarkSado]

NRS gonna see this and be like see!! No issues

Right I can see Ed boon now tweet LMAO!

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Remember when fox said subs f2 was reactable and everyone was like go lab it lol.

Then he later admitted he couldn't do it in game.

Here's an example of him doing it repeatedly in Top 8 at a recent major:

Notice what happens when ArnKratos jumps in. Sonic low-profiles about 95% of the jumpins in this set.

One of several examples:

You can see at 2:40-ish that when the spacing is farther out, he just walks back instead:

 

[spidey300]

so y'all just gonna let sonic give y'all some end all be all video huh? oh shit a jump ins coming at me that's known for most of the cast not having a counter to it; let me just walk up to it and duck without blocking. also do people want jabs to anti air j3s? because they shouldn't.

 

[M2Dave]

If you're willing to put in a little bit of work...

People don't. LOL. You presume too much.

As you can see from the responses in this thread alone, what certain individuals are demanding is one-button DPs that anti air all jumping attacks, including cross ups, at all times without any exceptions.

I think what NRS developers are thinking is you are evidently supposed to use various of anti-aerial attacks instead of relying on a single one.

As for actual obnoxious jumping attacks, check out Rashid's new V-Skill 2 below.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206559959317499907

 

[Error404]

I never got the problem with jump ins. Yeah , you have to be accurate with your anti-air. Isn't that the point to having more than 1 jumping attack, that they can't be universally anti-aired ? Do you want to it be like MK9 , where jumping is basicly suicide?

On the topic of going under them, I don't even risk ducking them . I do d3/4 and go even lower to the ground. I don't always get a punish , but I atleast have advantage.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

People don't. LOL. You presume too much.

As you can see from the responses in this thread alone, what certain individuals are demanding is one-button DPs that anti air all jumping attacks, including cross ups, at all times without any exceptions.

I think what NRS developers are thinking is you are evidently supposed to use various of anti-aerial attacks instead of relying on a single one.

As for actual obnoxious jumping attacks, check out Rashid's new V-Skill 2 below.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206559959317499907

Holy moly.. And the community was already salty at Rashid before this. I can only imagine now, haha.

And yes, exactly — it seems like people want a quick, safe answer to 100% of jump ins that leads to full combo. It makes me wonder if people play/follow other fighting games.

 

[fr stack]

I came across this in the lab a long time ago but I always pussy out trying to do it in real matches because if they delay the jump kick I'll get hit.

Even if I know they're gonna do the JK early I still just block.

Gotta have bigger balls.

Dear god

Why are my balls so small

Sincerely
@Braindead

 

[Zviko]

I wonder how people haven't realized that yet on their own especially people who play characters with good down poke AAs like Frost, Terminator, Sindel. You are basically doing this exact thing except your combo starter is a down poke.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If you empty jump-in from neutral in this game you'll 100% end up getting trip-guarded for combo. You'll see people doing it occasionally on cross-up, like after a knockdown, for example, or on a fatal blow/wakeup bait.. But just raw jumping in on people would be a death sentence against even a half-decent player.

you can't trip guard an empty jump.
Trip guarding is the action of defending after a jump attack is performed, during that time between the attack and landing frames, there is a small window where they are not able to guard, if you hit any attack in that window as they recover from the jump attacks, you punish a trip guard.
In MK9 you could only trip guard punish jump punches, on kicks there was no landing frames and they would insta-guard coming from a jump kick.
From MKX towards any air attack move has landing frames, in that programmable state guarding is not allowed.

Still, if you jump without any of these attacks, you can skip the landing frames and go straight into guard.

 

[Eddy Wang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207758493995982849

This is similar to something Eddy Wang described months ago. But this is why labbing is > complaining every time in my book. If you're willing to put in a little bit of work, you can counter people who constantly ji3 in a braindead fastion.

I also spoke about this in my analysis of how Sonic beat ArnKratos (NEC) after AK gained advantage in the first set against him by repeatedly jumping in.

P.S. Thanks to @DarksydeDash for the tip.

Its the same thing

 

[Braindead]

Dear god

Why are my balls so small

Sincerely
@Braindead

Dear God,

Where's the inflator?

Sincerely,
Braindead

 

[Roy Arkon]

Thanks for sharing this info Crimson, very much appreciated

 

[appo]

Sure, and the next time they jump kick, you full combo them before it goes active for much more damage. That's how yomi works.

or they since now they know about it (which many will not) adapt and use 1, 2 and full combo you instead. dont get me wrong at least for me this is new and i will try to implement it into my gameplay but its not a guaranteed counter for every jump kick and should be used wisely when your opponent knows of it or it can backfire pretty hard.

since it seems you missed my edited in question i answer it myself. frame advantage depends on height but seems overall high enough on whiff to get a full combo starter 9-10 frame moves.

But then again those deep jumpins are much easier to AA.

true that but i for myself..yeah, yeah, i know...see it from a online perspective so i am not sure if that quick decision making: is it a early or late kick, should i punsh or crouch without block is something you can really decide on the fly, especially when they have other options like 1, 2 which can fuck that whole mindgame up in case you cant react to it.
i have to try it out outside of trainingsmode.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Here's an example of him doing it repeatedly in Top 8 at a recent major:

Notice what happens when ArnKratos jumps in. Sonic low-profiles about 95% of the jumpins in this set.

One of several examples:

You can see at 2:40-ish that when the spacing is farther out, he just walks back instead:

This still relies on sonic-fox level reactions imo.
For people with lesser reactions I believe this tech is still a read more than anything bc like others said the opponent can empty jump, jip, and you have 0.25 seconds to adjust accordingly.

 

[Hellbringer]

This still relies on sonic-fox level reactions imo.
For people with lesser reactions I believe this tech is still a read more than anything bc like others said the opponent can empty jump, jip, and you have 0.25 seconds to adjust accordingly.

He isnt really reacting to wether its a deep jump or not. Hes just making a read that his opponent is gonna do normal jumpkick.
If your opponent adapts and start doing deep jk or empty jump, then you have to adapt too. Simple fighting game fundamentals.

 

[Vslayer]

I need to lab this but it still is a hard read in a way, as people stated if it's late it'll hit and if you're not at the correct distance it'll hit. Still good to know but I feel like it won't be as useful unless jump kicks are nerfed, as they should.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

He isnt really reacting to wether its a deep jump or not. Hes just making a read that his opponent is gonna do normal jumpkick.
If your opponent adapts and start doing deep jk or empty jump, then you have to adapt too. Simple fighting game fundamentals.

I was talking about his instant mini-walk back on the deeper jump in the 2nd video

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This still relies on sonic-fox level reactions imo.
For people with lesser reactions I believe this tech is still a read more than anything bc like others said the opponent can empty jump, jip, and you have 0.25 seconds to adjust accordingly.

It does not. It actually takes less reactions than the standard jab AA because ducking has zero start up frames. This is something any decent player can incorporate into their game.

Jip whiffs. Go into practice mode and try it.

I really don’t think empty jump is a viable answer, either. At the very least you’ll eat a poke and lose your turn. At worst you’ll eat a full combo. That’s gimmicky and better players will catch onto it quickly.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I was talking about his instant mini-walk back on the deeper jump in the 2nd video

He’s already conditioned to do it based on the range his opponent is at when they start the jump. It’s predictive rather than reactive — you can’t change the length of a jump arc unless you’re Upgraded or Kitana, etc.

 

[magandi]

People don't. LOL. You presume too much.

As you can see from the responses in this thread alone, what certain individuals are demanding is one-button DPs that anti air all jumping attacks, including cross ups, at all times without any exceptions.

I think what NRS developers are thinking is you are evidently supposed to use various of anti-aerial attacks instead of relying on a single one.

As for actual obnoxious jumping attacks, check out Rashid's new V-Skill 2 below.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206559959317499907

rashids vskill2 is insane. wtf were they thinking? as if rashid wasn't obnoxious enough. they need to take the cross up away from him asap. it's way worse than jik in mk11. you never see someone jumping that much in any sf ever.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

S1 AAs or GTFO

 

[Eddy Wang]

rashids vskill2 is insane. wtf were they thinking? as if rashid wasn't obnoxious enough. they need to take the cross up away from him asap. it's way worse than jik in mk11. you never see someone jumping that much in any sf ever.

Just wait until paulo adds that shit to a MK12 character

 

[HeavyNorse]

RAAAASHIIIIIDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ♪
Best new character in SFV!

 

[MagicMan357]

The main issue is that high jump ins SHOULD ALWAYS ALLOW A PUNISH! Only deep jump kicks should ever even be close to positive, i really dont like this design at all. The anti airs were never an issue either.

 

[Kitana Fan]

I only ever use jump-in attacks out of desperation, or if one of the challenges requires me to.